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Seems that the new FAQ has already bred some people to jump at the chance for some Njal hate;

Q: How do maelstroms, novas and beams – or indeed any weapon that doesn’t need to roll To Hit or hits automatically – interact with Zooming Flyers and Gliding Flying Monstrous Creatures? (p13) A: Only Snap Shots can hit Zooming Flyers and Gliding Flying Monstrous Creatures. Therefore, any attacks that use blast markers, templates, create a line of/area of effect or otherwise don’t roll to hit cannot target them. This includes weapons such as the Necron Doom Scythe’s death ray or the Deathstrike missile of the Imperial Guard, and psychic powers that follow the rule for maelstroms, beams, and novas.

People are trying to now say that the above FAQ now makes it so that Njal's Lord of Tempest can no longer hit flyers. The stance I have taken is that the question is specifically directed at,

maelstroms, novas and beams – or indeed any weapon that doesn’t need to roll To Hit or hits automatically

And as Njal's LoT effects are none of those things, that fAQ does not apply.

Thoughts YMDC?

Tempest can no longer hit flyers. FAQ

Fragile wrote:
Tempest can no longer hit flyers. FAQ

I don't think he is talking about Tempest Wrath, I think he is talking about Vengeful Tornado and Chain Lightning.

All that stuff on the Lord of Tempests table is referred to as game effects so that FAQ does not apply to them at all.

Tempest now is area of effect.

 Darog wrote:
Tempest now is area of effect.

The point being? It isn't a weapon or any of the other listed things in the FAQ. It is a game effect, no different then any other game effect.

It's not a shooting attack, so I don't believe it's affected.

any attacks that use blast markers, templates, create a line of/area of effect or otherwise don’t roll to hit cannot target them

Seems rather clear cut to me.

Its an attack, and doesn't roll to hit. Sounds like an easter egg hunt.

Except you *can* snap fire shots that auto hit....

coredump wrote:
Except you *can* snap fire shots that auto hit....

It doesn't matter because they can not target flyers.

Not against flyers though.

The intent seems pretty clear they don't want you messing with Zooming Fliers or Swooping Monstrous Creatures unless you Snap Shot or Skyfire. No exceptions.

I would also have to say that Njals Tempest is an exception to this. Its not a psychic power, its not a psychic shooting attack, its not even a shooting attack, so you will have to ignore everything that rules for/against any of those 3.

It's also a storm, so there's nothing unreasonable or illogical (yeah, its GW and its not like they're synanomous with logic anyway :p) about flyers being affected, because storms after all can be quite dangerous to aircraft.

It still needs to be FAQ'd imo.

The line quoted by perrin seems to me indicate attacks within the kinds of rules the FAQ answer is about, ie psychic powers and shooting attacks/weapons.

It doesnt clearly state that special rules or abilites are affected, like other FAQ entries often do.

coredump wrote:
Except you *can* snap fire shots that auto hit....

To be clear:

Q: Does a weapon that hits automatically, still hit automatically when
making a Snap Shot? (p13)
A: Yes.

If it's already making a snap shot, a shot that hits automatically can be fired as a snap shot.
Not all shots that automatically hit can be fired as snap shots.

In answer to BR, Lord of Tempests is a maelstrom so it cannot hit flyers. If it helps, think of it like the zooming flyer is flying above the tempest.


Automatically Appended Next Post:


Q: How do maelstroms, novas and beams – or indeed any weapon
that doesn’t need to roll To Hit or hits automatically – interact with
Zooming Flyers and Gliding Flying Monstrous Creatures? (p13)

This question includes Lord of Tempest since it qualifies as a weapon that hits automatically and interacts with the flyer.

How does Lord of Tempests interact with Zooming Flyers and Gliding Flying Monstrous Creatures? (p13)

A: Only Snap Shots can hit Zooming Flyers and Gliding
Flying Monstrous Creatures. Therefore, any attacks that use
blast markers, templates, create a line of/area of effect or
otherwise don’t roll to hit cannot target them.

Except it isnt a weapon, its an ability.

I would like to point out that Bomb Squigs (not a weapon) and Terror from the Deep (Special rule used when Deep Striking) were both FAQd not to be able to hit ZFlyers/SFMC. Based on these precedents it would seem that other non-shooting abilities would not be able to work such as Imotekh's Lightning.

At least that is HIWPI.

And yet some of those attacks you state does get a specific ruling that they don't work, but Njal and Imotekh doesnt. Why?

As I see it only "driving gale" may effect a flyer. "Vengeful Tornado" and "chain lightning" should not affect flyers as they are a form of attack.

And remember, when the issue of whether abilities that require LoS could be used inside transports with firepoints came up, we all agreed that vengeful tornado and chain lightning were shooting attacks and could be used inside transports. So why should this change now?

Because GW isnt very good at being consistent?

copper.talos wrote:
As I see it only "driving gale" may effect a flyer. "Vengeful Tornado" and "chain lightning" should not affect flyers as they are a form of attack.

And remember, when the issue of whether abilities that require LoS could be used inside transports with firepoints came up, we all agreed that vengeful tornado and chain lightning were shooting attacks and could be used inside transports. So why should this change now?

While this makes sense from a house rule and narrative point of view, the question is whether the ability can effect the flyer at all. The rules do not allow for partial effects.

Does anyone know of any other effect in the game that is a maelstrom or specifically called maelstrom? I believe Tempest and the description qualifies it as a maelstrom, but perhaps maelstrom is some specific weapon type somewhere.

Maelstrom is a type of Psychic Power. Lord of Tempest isnt a psychic power at all, but an ability, so how can it be counted as a type of psychic power and follow those rules?


It is a special attack from an ability, and thus should have been referenced in the FAQ specifically, just like Bomb Squigs and other similar special effects.

Maybe it was never asked in the first place. Anyway there is a general faq about all attacks that hit automatically, so it is covered by it.

The problem as I see it is that LOT is not an attack. Yes the controlling player picks which unit is affected but that doesn't make it an attack. LOT is more akin to to death world game rule or other game effects/special mission rules. More like night fighting which wrecks stuff. It is not Nijal doing it it is the environment so the FAQ doesn't disallow it. They really need to just FAQ LOT.

copper.talos wrote:
Maybe it was never asked in the first place. Anyway there is a general faq about all attacks that hit automatically, so it is covered by it.

Except that other similar effects still have a FAQ answer to that particular ability. Why would it need one if its covered in the general faq answer? Because it's a special form of attack, which requires special treatment.

"Only snapshots can hit Zooming flyers". Seems pretty clear - either it's an attack and fails on that basis or it's not an attack so can't be a snapshot. Either way it fails. Same for Immotekh.

Tjolle79 wrote:

copper.talos wrote:
Maybe it was never asked in the first place. Anyway there is a general faq about all attacks that hit automatically, so it is covered by it.

Except that other similar effects still have a FAQ answer to that particular ability. Why would it need one if its covered in the general faq answer? Because it's a special form of attack, which requires special treatment.

Or you know, for the sake of clarity... They also put a rule in the Necron FAQ saying Death Rays can't hit Zooming Flyers when Death Rays are specifically cited as an example in the core rulebook FAQ as a thing that can't hit flyers.

It's not because Death Rays weren't covered by the core rulebook FAQ because it's a special attack which requires special treatment, it's because they wanted to ensure absolute clarity.

I'm not saying your conclusion is wrong, but your justification is severely flawed.

I agree with you Drunkspleen. It might be me not being able to properly explain or word what i'm trying to say in a satisfactory way for people with english as their main language.

It's exactly what i'm trying to say. They went out of their way to ensure absolute clarity on a number of things, but still left some stuff out, like njals tempest and Imotekhs storm. Some specifically state they cannot ever be used vs flyers. These, however, does not.

Eyjio: That is from the rules from shooting, weapons and psychic powers, and can't apply here, because this isnt either of those.

So a faq says that attacks that hit automatically can't hit flyers but because there is no specific faq about LoT you say LoT can automatically hit fliers? Correct?

Of course you understand that this logic means all BRB faqs are useless unless they are followed by a codex specific faq, which breaks the game entirely. Absence of a specific faq doesn't cancel a general faq. As it is, for LoT to hit fliers, there should be a faq that specifically permits it to do so.

copper.talos wrote:
So a faq says that attacks that hit automatically can't hit flyers but because there is no specific faq about LoT you say LoT can automatically hit fliers? Correct?

Of course you understand that this logic means all BRB faqs are useless unless they are followed by a codex specific faq, which breaks the game entirely. Absence of a specific faq doesn't cancel a general faq. As it is, for LoT to hit fliers, there should be a faq that specifically permits it to do so.

No, the FAQ states how attacks from weapons, shooting and psychic powers work with regards to fliers.

If anything from any codex is a weapon, a psychic power or a shooting attack, it falls under this BRB FAQ ruling and won't need any further clarification.

The Bomb squig is then separately covered in the ORK FAQ just because it doesnt fall under the general FAQ previously stated just because it isnt a regular kind of attack.

Imotekhs storm during night fights aren't covered either. Since some are specifically stated they can't be used vs flyers and some aren't, this at least causes me to question "why?". All special forms of abilites that hit stuff automatically still does, unless FAQ'd that it doesn't. Thats the way i see it.

Why do you keep saying that the faq is only about weapons?!

"Therefore, any ATTACKS that use blast markers, templates, create a line of/area of effect or otherwise don’t roll to hit cannot target them."

No mention of weapons, only attacks. "Vengeful Tornado" and "chain lightning" are attacks that don't roll to hit so cannot target flyers at all.

Fragile wrote:
Tempest can no longer hit flyers. FAQ

Agreed, this is the way I interpret the FAQ also.