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Mohoc wrote:

 lazarian wrote:

Mohoc wrote:
Bloodthirsters and Demon Princes Vector striking seems to work reasonably well for me, not that my demons have much of a choice. Decimator engines with stormlasers and butcher cannons do a decent job as well.

You got a new lease on life with skyfire bolts coming from flying things.

I know. It helps a little, but on the bright side I can VS and shoot the flyer now in the same turn.

Flying Circus should clear the airspace pretty quickly now.

Against AV 11 ork bikers are quite good. 3 str 5 shots a piece that are twin linked.

5x missile Launcher or Lascannon Long Fangs with Cyclone wolf guard attached an rune priest. That's 7 TL str 8 shots. You will get some hits.

Going on about what other poeple said, 290 points for 3 (on average) s8 auto hits on the side armor plus a s7 ap2 hit with normal ballistic skill is pretty damn good. If you didn't guess, i was talking about a bloodthirster with Unholy Might and death strike. But to be honest, i think just keeping with unholy might for 270 would be fine with me.

P.S. I know people are probably tearing their eyes out at the fact that i count unholy might towards the daemons base strength for vector strikes, but that's how i play. The daemon is just stronger as per RAI with unholy might. To me that should be counted as base strength. But if someone is going to be a stiff about it i will take 3 s7 auto hits. It is still about a flyer downed per turn anyway.

 -Loki- wrote:

 IcedAnimals wrote:
how about units with 2x brain leech devourers. its something like 12 twin linked that have a high enough str value to pen most fliers.

The main problem is their range. On a Flyrant, you can just about guarantee to be in range, but on a Carnifex, there's no way the flyer player will let it get in range of the Carnifex.

Since flyers have to move 18" minimum in a 90 degree arc from where they ended last turn.. it's not hard to judge about where you're going to end up next turn.

The flyer flap can be fixed like this:

All missile launchers that can shoot frag or krak now get a third option - flak.

Flak missiles have the same stats as krak (str 8, ap 3), but also have the skyfire rule.

There, fixed it for ya, Matt Ward. Thank me later.

 DeathwingCrusader wrote:
The flyer flap can be fixed like this:

All missile launchers that can shoot frag or krak now get a third option - flak.

Flak missiles have the same stats as krak (str 8, ap 3), but also have the skyfire rule.

There, fixed it for ya, Matt Ward. Thank me later.

Oh look, now all the imperial armies get an easy anti-air option, whereas the xenos are stuck with nothing.
Balance! Its fantastic!
And flakk are S7 AP4. It already tells you that in the BRB.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

And flakk are S7 AP4. It already tells you that in the BRB.

Missed that somehow. What unit has flakk missiles?

 DeathwingCrusader wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

And flakk are S7 AP4. It already tells you that in the BRB.

Missed that somehow. What unit has flakk missiles?

None.

 deathholydeath wrote:

 DeathwingCrusader wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

And flakk are S7 AP4. It already tells you that in the BRB.

Missed that somehow. What unit has flakk missiles?

None.

Yeah that's the best part.
"Hey guys, we've got a new missle made specifically to kill fliers!"
"AWESOME! Who has them?"
"NOBODY!" Trollface.jpg

That still doesn't solve the non imperium problems though. What do the other armies get then?

 MrMoustaffa wrote:

 deathholydeath wrote:

 DeathwingCrusader wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

And flakk are S7 AP4. It already tells you that in the BRB.

Missed that somehow. What unit has flakk missiles?

None.

Yeah that's the best part.
"Hey guys, we've got a new missle made specifically to kill fliers!"
"AWESOME! Who has them?"
"NOBODY!" Trollface.jpg

That still doesn't solve the non imperium problems though. What do the other armies get then?

Just like Imperial armies have to wait for their new codices to get flakk missiles, non-Imperial players will have to wait for their codices to see what they get.

it's no different aside from not knowing what you're getting. It's obvious a solution will be there, just not what solution it'll be.

Hopefully non-Imperial players get a better solution than a few S7 missiles per turn, because that's pretty weak.

Punisher tank to the rear . 32 shots has to do something!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Side note, rumour mill says Chaos get first crack at flakk missles.

 DeathwingCrusader wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

And flakk are S7 AP4. It already tells you that in the BRB.

Missed that somehow. What unit has flakk missiles?

At the moment, no one. It just tells you the stats of the flak missiles as an example, along with krak and frag.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 BunkerBob wrote:
Punisher tank to the rear . 32 shots has to do something!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Side note, rumour mill says Chaos get first crack at flakk missles.

Makes sense. It is a 6th ed codex.

 -Loki- wrote:

 Godless-Mimicry wrote:
Most of the suggestions here are S5-6; are people forgetting about Storm Ravens? If you can't beat them then don't bother. So either talk S7+ or go home basically.

So when I play my friends Dark Eldar, I need to be able to beat a Storm Ravens AV?

This mentality of 'one tool for the job only' is slowed. High quantity S6 shots do fine against AV11-12 fliers by stripping hullpoints. S7 isn't needed, but it's nice.

Oh you mean list tailoring....I frown upon list tailoring so when i bring a tool for a job...i bring one that can do it all the time, not just sometimes.

A S6 weapon can definitely do the job against a Storm Raven. I don't care about penning it. With a dual devourer Flyrant wrecking a Raven from Hull Point damage is only slightly above average in one turn.

I like the lootas not only is hitting on 6 not a big deal. But they are a good pick even if the flyers are dead or not on the table.

Aandiin wrote:

 -Loki- wrote:

 Godless-Mimicry wrote:
Most of the suggestions here are S5-6; are people forgetting about Storm Ravens? If you can't beat them then don't bother. So either talk S7+ or go home basically.

So when I play my friends Dark Eldar, I need to be able to beat a Storm Ravens AV?

This mentality of 'one tool for the job only' is slowed. High quantity S6 shots do fine against AV11-12 fliers by stripping hullpoints. S7 isn't needed, but it's nice.

Oh you mean list tailoring....I frown upon list tailoring so when i bring a tool for a job...i bring one that can do it all the time, not just sometimes.

So tailoring your list to take down a Storm Raven is different to tailoring it to take down a Razorwing... how exactly?

Also, it's not list tailoring, it's just knowing I won't need to shoot down a Storm Raven because no one I play against uses one.

As I said, I know I won't be taking on a Storm Raven. At all. Why should I bring something that can take it down over something cheaper that can take down any other flier?