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In close combat while joined to a squad, does every roll of 1 to hit seths unit trigger this special ability?

What's the exact wording in the rule? My guess is that like Obyron it now only really works in challenges or when he's on his own.

Thinking of dusting off your BAs? (this is Luke btw)

Yeah, the only times you would be targeting Seth in close combat are in a Challenge, or when he is by himself. It won't do anything outside a Challenge if he is joined to a unit.

Yea, thinking about dusting them off. Is there a rules quote for this?

It reads to me a roll to hit him is the same as a roll to hit his unit

 frgsinwntr wrote:
It reads to me a roll to hit him is the same as a roll to hit his unit

Based on what?

 insaniak wrote:

 frgsinwntr wrote:
It reads to me a roll to hit him is the same as a roll to hit his unit

Based on what?

All the attacks being rolled together now in close combat, and allocated by the defender?

Could I say that Seth is the "closest" model, starting with him, which means all the attacks are hitting him until he goes down?

(I honestly don't know the answer. I play BA (FT), and my last opponent told me that all the cc attacks would be affected by Seth's ability. I didn't argue the point.)

The rule in question: "For every roll of "1" to hit Seth in close combat, enemy units immediately suffer an automatic Strength 4 hit as the Chapter Master takes advantage of the opening."

Least advantageous ruling would say only challenges or when alone. If that is indeed the case, that's rough, because charging alone into overwatch fire isn't fun. Ruling the other way is pretty powerful against hordes. I'm surprised this wasn't in the FAQ. I guess no one actually uses Seth since he has no power weapon.

Seth's special rule only applies when he is being attacked by an enemy character in a challenge or when he is fighting alone. If he has joined another unit, attacks against that unit do not activate Seth's special rule.

 Kingsley wrote:
Seth's special rule only applies when he is being attacked by an enemy character in a challenge or when he is fighting alone. If he has joined another unit, attacks against that unit do not activate Seth's special rule.

Based on what? This point had been made, a counter argument presented, so how do you counter the counter argument?

I am simply playing Devil's Advocate on this one, since I am not sure either way, but if you know the attacks have to be allocated to Seth because he is the only one in base contact with models attacking at that initiative step, then are you not attacking Seth and so his rule should apply?

sorry its taken me so long to post again.

Page 39

"While an independent character is part of a unit, he counts as part of the unit for all rules and purposes, though he still follows the rules for characters."

Now... the special rules not transferring bit that is in the next column is interesting because the rule isn't actually transferring to the unit... This is an odd piece of rules debate. I'd say they are rolling to hit Seth who is "part" of the unit.

You cannot single a IC out of a unit anymore in combat so those attacks are not targetting him, they are hitting the unit, unless they are precision (which is a 6 anyway).

Could I say that Seth is the "closest" model, starting with him, which means all the attacks are hitting him until he goes down?

Allocation of the wounds comes after the To Hit stage so would not apply.

Cruentus and captain:
Correct, since Seth is part of the unit, any roll to hit the unit is a roll to hit him as well


Automatically Appended Next Post:
here is a similar situation FAQed in necrons

Page 61 – Nemesor Zahndrekh & Vargard Obyron, Cleaving
Counterblow.
Change the penultimate sentence to “Enemy misses that occur
on or after Obyron’s Initiative step do not generate bonus
Attacks.”

Seths wording: " for every roll of "1" to hit seth..."

Obyrons wording: "when enemies attempt to strike Obyron in close combat..."

I'd really appreciate it if someone could provide some rules showing that attacks towards the unit are not attacks towards the special character attached to the unit... I don't see any... which makes me think his rule does activate still...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 insaniak wrote:

 frgsinwntr wrote:
It reads to me a roll to hit him is the same as a roll to hit his unit

Based on what?

Read my post above... :( I think this is a thing they should have FAQed but did not...