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I cannot seem to find a clear example in the new rule book that explains cover saves for Monstrous Creatures in 6th ed. Are they the same as vehicles, 25% is 4+, or are they now like infantry in regards to cover saves?

Page numbers would be appreciated, maybe I somehow overlooked the Monstrous Creature cover saves box, if there is one, in the rule book (I know this was spelled out in 5th ed).

Everything you need to know about cover saves is on page 18. Whenever 25% of the model (be that infantry, MC or vehicle) is obscured you get a cover save. Refer to the cover save chart to see how good a cover safe you get from different terrain.

overkongen wrote:
Everything you need to know about cover saves is on page 18. Whenever 25% of the model (be that infantry, MC or vehicle) is obscured you get a cover save. Refer to the cover save chart to see how good a cover safe you get from different terrain.

The vehicle table says the 25% or more is a 4+, if you can see it but cannot see the facing nearest you that it'd be a 3+. So, that being said, do Monstrous Creatures only get cover if they are 25% or do they get it with area terrain as well. Infantry and Vehicles are different, hence why I am trying to clarify how Monstrous Creatures work, in 5th ed they got cover just like vehicles but right now I cannot find anything for Monstrous Creatures that says that this is still true.

(IE: vehicles and Monstrous Creatures didn't get cover saves from area terrain in 5th ed, they have to be obscured. In 6th ed vehicles still have to be obscured, but do Monstrous Creatures 'have' to be to get a cover save).

 Jstncloud wrote:
The vehicle table says the 25% or more is a 4+, if you can see it but cannot see the facing nearest you that it'd be a 3+.

Where is this stated? All I see is that vehicles take cover saves against damage like non-vehicles do against wounds (p75, second bullet point), so you use the cover save that the obscuring piece of terrain will give. If the armour facing the shooting unit is in can't be seen, then the cover save is improved by one point. It's not a flat 4+/3+ at all.

So, that being said, do Monstrous Creatures only get cover if they are 25% or do they get it with area terrain as well. Infantry and Vehicles are different, hence why I am trying to clarify how Monstrous Creatures work, in 5th ed they got cover just like vehicles but right now I cannot find anything for Monstrous Creatures that says that this is still true.

Monstrous Creatures no longer have any exception to the normal cover save rules. Vehicles still need to be obscured to be able to use a cover save (p75), so don't benefit from area terrain cover saves just from being in it.

 Cheexsta wrote:

 Jstncloud wrote:
The vehicle table says the 25% or more is a 4+, if you can see it but cannot see the facing nearest you that it'd be a 3+.

Where is this stated? All I see is that vehicles take cover saves against damage like non-vehicles do against wounds (p75, second bullet point), so you use the cover save that the obscuring piece of terrain will give. If the armour facing the shooting unit is in can't be seen, then the cover save is improved by one point. It's not a flat 4+/3+ at all.

So, that being said, do Monstrous Creatures only get cover if they are 25% or do they get it with area terrain as well. Infantry and Vehicles are different, hence why I am trying to clarify how Monstrous Creatures work, in 5th ed they got cover just like vehicles but right now I cannot find anything for Monstrous Creatures that says that this is still true.

Monstrous Creatures no longer have any exception to the normal cover save rules. Vehicles still need to be obscured to be able to use a cover save (p75), so don't benefit from area terrain cover saves just from being in it.

So Monstrous Creatures benefit from Area terrain now? (Clarification)

As for the vehicle we've been using the example on 75 as the baseline, using it wrong obviously, this will now be corrected.

 Jstncloud wrote:
So Monstrous Creatures benefit from Area terrain now? (Clarification)

Yes

 Jstncloud wrote:
The vehicle table says the 25% or more is a 4+

No, the value is based upon the type of cover it is obscured by.

25% obscured = 4+.
Covered at all by a third unit (or even the gaps between the models of a third unit) = 5+
Its more or less the same for vehicles, but it matters which facing is forward etc so they do some further clarification there under vehicles.

psyklone wrote:
25% obscured = 4+.

wrong... as somebody stated above, its based off of terrain that is obscuring.

psyklone wrote:
25% obscured = 4+.

The cover chart on pg. 18 disagrees with you.

psyklone wrote:
25% obscured = 4+.
Covered at all by a third unit (or even the gaps between the models of a third unit) = 5+
Its more or less the same for vehicles, but it matters which facing is forward etc so they do some further clarification there under vehicles.

You were reading the same page I was, on that page in the photo it says "The rhino is granted a 4+ cover save from the ruins." I missed that part my first time as well.

Ruins = 4+ cover.

Vehicles get a cover save from whatever is obscuring them 25%, and the value of that cover save is based on what's covering them, just like any other unit. That's unchanged from 5th. In 5th you got a flat 4+ if a special rule made the vehicle "obscured", without specifying the value, like KFF or Smoke Launchers.

Monstrous Creatures are back to getting cover saves from area like any other non-vehicle model, like in 3rd and 4th editions.

 Mannahnin wrote:
Ruins = 4+ cover.

Vehicles get a cover save from whatever is obscuring them 25%, and the value of that cover save is based on what's covering them, just like any other unit. That's unchanged from 5th. In 5th you got a flat 4+ if a special rule made the vehicle "obscured", without specifying the value, like KFF or Smoke Launchers.

Monstrous Creatures are back to getting cover saves from area like any other non-vehicle model, like in 3rd and 4th editions.

This has been covered, the issue that Psyklone and myself had appears to be that we did not fully read the example in the text and only pulled out the save itself without actually seeing/reading the justification for said save. (Page 75 seems to be the culprit for our confusions).

I think we've gotten this straightened out now:
Infantry models/Monstrous Creatures- cover from area terrain, 5+ for intervening models, 25% of model (cover save granted is based off of what is obscuring said model)
Vehicles- Smoke/Shield of Sanguinius/KFF 5+, 25+% (cover save granted is based off of what is obscuring said model)

I believe we have that summed up now (unless I missed something, I only know of three effects from models that give cover, aside from Jink/Flatout/Turbo. So I only listed the three I knew. Smoke dropped from a 4+ to a 5+, and KFF used to simply grant obscured status to vehicles which in 5th ed was a 4+ save, it has sense been FAQed and now gives a 5+).

Edit:
The entry in the rule book for Obscurity says vehicles do not follow the normal cover save rules for everyone else. However, does this mean they also ignore the intervening models rule as well? (Just for clarification, the way we've done it is if the vehicle was 25%+ covered by models, say terminators for example, we granted the vehicle a 5+).

If they're 25% covered by intervening models, they'll get a 5+.

 Mannahnin wrote:
If they're 25% covered by intervening models, they'll get a 5+.

Thanks for the clarification.

Similarly, if a model fires
through the gaps between models in an intervening unit, the
target is in cover, even if it is completely visible to the firer.

Pretty clear you get a 5+ even if it is NOT 25% but you are firing through a 3rd party unit.

Intervening units don't automatically provide cover to a vehicle. Per page 74 it has to be at least 25% hidden by intervening terrain or models.

 Mannahnin wrote:
Intervening units don't automatically provide cover to a vehicle. Per page 74 it has to be at least 25% hidden by intervening terrain or models.

'


Well the rule I quoted seems to disagree with you, however the topic is "Monstrous Creatures".

Stormbreed wrote:

 Mannahnin wrote:
Intervening units don't automatically provide cover to a vehicle. Per page 74 it has to be at least 25% hidden by intervening terrain or models.

'


Well the rule I quoted seems to disagree with you, however the topic is "Monstrous Creatures".

The rule you quoted has no bearing on Vehicles. Pg 74 covers their requirements.

Stormbreed wrote:

 Mannahnin wrote:
Intervening units don't automatically provide cover to a vehicle. Per page 74 it has to be at least 25% hidden by intervening terrain or models.

'


Well the rule I quoted seems to disagree with you, however the topic is "Monstrous Creatures".

He was responding to my question, about vehicles. This discussion, at least where I've taken it (original poster), covered vehicles by nature since Monstrous Creatures in 5th ed followed vehicle cover rules.