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Astorath

Chaplain

6m DC - 2x PW, 1x PF, 3 Boltgun
6m DC - 2x PW, 1x PF, 3 Boltgun
10m Tac Squad - Melta, ML, Rhino
10m Tac Squad - Melta, ML, Rhino
10m Tac Squad - Melta, ML,

Speeder - MM, Typhoon ML
Speeder - MM, Typhoon ML

Stormraven - TLMM, TLLC
Stormraven - TLMM, TLLC

ADL - Quad Gun

=1995

Are the DC foot slogging or are you sticking them in the SR?

I'm considering running tac squads, but I'm leaning towards Drop pods rather than Rhinos, as I think it's a better delivery mechanism than the rhinos which are very expensive considering the their effectiveness has dropped (IMO).

D

The DC are going to be in the SR's. Since there are 2, they are going to have to decide which one they want to focus on. I have also concidered dropping the speeders for bikes as they move just as fast, a little tougher, and can be hidden better. Although the speeders offer the fact of being a flyer and getting the full BS shots at other flyers. I do see what you mean about the drop pods. I just dont think that they will live long enough to possibly go after something later in the game. Also, the plan with them was to leave the melta in the rhino and combat squad the ML out and sit in the ADL with the other ML's and get to fire from a defensive standpoint.

Fair enough. Not sure how to called the bike/speeder issue. Both are useful for different things...

So how come the focus on tac squads? Assault sqauds are still useful with BAs, and priests are better in someways despite the knock to FNP.

D

Where in the rulebook does it say speeders are flyers? To my knowledge they are fast skimmers and that doesn't entitle them to sky fire.

ianj253 wrote:
Where in the rulebook does it say speeders are flyers? To my knowledge they are fast skimmers and that doesn't entitle them to sky fire.

Actually yeah, I think ianj253 is on to something. I can't see anywhere that Skimmers have access to using the Skyfire Special rule, the way that fliers do.

Still, the toss-up between skimmers and bikes still stands. There are advantages over using bikes vs skimmers, and vice versa.

D

Speeders are not flyers nor have sky fire.

The DC will be better off as one unit over 2 small ones. Astorath isn't worth the points anymore after getting ruled with a unwieldy power Axe. You can put a dread in the other SR if you want.

Ok so speeders are not concidered flyers. Just looked it up.

So reps0l, your thinking merge the 2 DC units and drop Astorath. Possibly drop one of the power fists from the DC and make a normal guy with a bolter? That would free up about 250pts giving me more speeders, another Raven, speeders and bikes, or Librarian? That opens up a lot of options. I personally dont want to run a single dread. Not sure why but its doesnt seem to appease me. Thoughts?

@ evildrcheese - I dont want to go with assault marines because I am using them for the ML and to be more conservative. I know the assault marines would get me the rhino for cheaper but I lose that ML. Could possibly put a Dev squad in the place of the ML loss. Thoughts?

Understand the concern on a single dread. The idea is that you each Stormraven should have scary cargo in it. However, this might be as necessary anymore since fliers start in reserve in 6th. I'd go with a Librarian and a mix of bikes/speeders, whatever floats your boat. 3 SR's seems a bit much to me.

I regularly run a dev squad with 4 ML, which I think runs me about 130 pts.

Single dreads can work, skies of blood is useful to drop it off somewhere, if you're willing to risk a 1/6 chance he'll immobilise himself. Make sure you drop it somewhere relatively safe mind as you can't assault after the drop.

As a personal note, I prefer to run Lemartes in the DC, I don't like sending my HQ with as he's worth a VP (if he's also your war boss).

Are you gonna post a revised list?

D

I'd cut the squad of DC to 9, upgrade the chaplain to a Reclusiarch w/Pf, and stick them in a drop. With your extra 250 points you could get 2 dreads. 1 DC and 1 Furioso. Put the DC dread in the storm raven and either put the other dread in a raven too or drop pod it. You don't have to use skies of blood to deploy the dread either. I think it's to risky.

When the raven comes in use your movement to get into prime position to unload the dread, while unleashing the wrath of your storm ravens weapons. Next turn go in to hover mode and drop the Dread where you want it. This way it can shoot and assault as opposed to just shooting if you did skies of blood. Then move flat out with your storm raven to get that thing out of danger. Since it's in hove you can do as much pivoting as you want thus allowing you to set up next turns gun run when the thing goes back to zooming.

@ianj253 - SO what your saying is you can zoom witht he raven and shoot. Then next turn drop to hover, unload the dread enabling it to shoot and assault, then speed away to get the raven into some cover. Following turn, go back to zooming and continue to fire? I know this is pretty much what you typed but it helps me make sure I am understanding the order of things. The flying rules are real sketchy to me and im not sure what allows you to do what anymore.

@evildrcheese - yes, I will post another list as soon as I get a little more info. I was thinking about trying to run a psyker list with 2 libbys and 3 libby dreads. 5 BA psykers sounds like a pain in the arse to me. I looked at Lemartes stats in comparison to the Reclusiarch and the Chap (I used army builder because I dont have the BA codex here) and I really think going with a reclusiarch is the better option. 20 pts cheaper, more wounds, same stat line. I know Lem gets pissed and gets better after he takes a wound.. but I dont know what the stat line is after that. Shed some light on that one please.

@reps0l - Just spit ballin here but would you be able to give a dread a pod and decide if you want him to use it or the Raven at deployment. I would hate to field 2 untis, 2 Ravens, and 2 dreads and have all that start in reserve. Although... You could just run a 3 Raven list and have everything start off the board T1...hrmmm lol.

 vyndetta85 wrote:
@reps0l - Just spit ballin here but would you be able to give a dread a pod and decide if you want him to use it or the Raven at deployment. I would hate to field 2 untis, 2 Ravens, and 2 dreads and have all that start in reserve. Although... You could just run a 3 Raven list and have everything start off the board T1...hrmmm lol.

Yes, I'm pretty sure nothing says that you have to deploy in a Dedicated Transport. 35 points seems like an awful lot of points to waste but you some people do it.

I have heard of people doing to block LOS to enemies. Using them to block passage too. I know they can simply be destroyed but its less shots going to the important stuff for one or two turns.

 vyndetta85 wrote:
I have heard of people doing to block LOS to enemies. Using them to block passage too. I know they can simply be destroyed but its less shots going to the important stuff for one or two turns.

Interesting. I think I could always find a use for 35 pts before an empty pod, but it is an interestinf idea.

Obviously there's no right-or-wrong answer in regard to Lemartes vs a Reclusiarch. I think Lemartes is 'more fun', as when he goes nuts ge's S5 and A5 (which is only +1 attack as Lem has Rage which gives 2+ anyway), but it's still great fun. I would go with Lemartes everytime is you're running JP DC, as a Rec is more expexsive than Lemartes when given a JP. Also Lemartes has FNP (better than an extra wound? debatable, but still) and FC which the Chap/Rec doesn't gain for joining the DC. If you're not running JP DC, maybe it is better ntot to take Lemartes, as he takes up 2 Spaces in the Raven.

ianj253 wrote:
When the raven comes in use your movement to get into prime position to unload the dread, while unleashing the wrath of your storm ravens weapons. Next turn go in to hover mode and drop the Dread where you want it. This way it can shoot and assault as opposed to just shooting if you did skies of blood. Then move flat out with your storm raven to get that thing out of danger. Since it's in hove you can do as much pivoting as you want thus allowing you to set up next turns gun run when the thing goes back to zooming.

Sometimes easier said than done, once you go into hover mode you only have a 5+ jink and that's only if you use the 6" move to get ready for the assault if you don't move you get nothing. It really depends how much AA your opponent has but even if our SR our resistant to the extra D6 that Melta offers, it's AV 12 all round, so S8 weapons are glacning on a 4, penning on a 5, thus, if you're in hover mode near a squad of Deves, you're gonna have a bad time

It's not an easy call by any means...but then the game wouldn't be as fun if it was. I wouldn't rule out skies of blood though, as you can still shoot on landing, so if you drop near a transport vechicle, melta and rear armour (usually 10, so wouldn't even need to be within 6") and hope your opponent Assaults you, if you've got talons, you may be able to tear through enough of the unit to eliminate the sgt and hopefully remain in combat so people can't shoot you next time. Maybe it is more of a gamble, I don't know

Food for thought, it's obviously up to you but I can't see a clear 'better option'.

D

Edit: Please post your libby heavy list, I find the idea very interesting!

D

@vyndetta your summary is correct

agree with drcheese it is easier said then do. It has to be very planned out from the turn your raven enters the board.

After your six inch move and deployment you then flat out in the shooting phase to get away form what could hurt you. I believe this also makes your storm raven get a 4+ cover save. I may be wrong though and don't have my rulebook with me to confirm. Another point is due to power of the machine spirit you can still fire 1 weapon even though you moved flat out.

Another CC on your list that I overlooked was the ADL. I don't really feel it is necessary for AA since you already have to fantastic AA options in your storm raven. However if you still want to take it may I suggest finding room for scouts with cloaks in the list.
You could use that ADL to protect an objective and hold it with the scouts. With their cloaks they will have a 3+ save and if they go to ground will have a 2 + save. I played a game last week and pulled out a draw due to these very resilient scouts shrugging off mass assault cannon fire and allowing them to hold onto a vital objective.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Alright, I have my rulebook now so I can confirm some stuff. If on your first move you get your SR where you want it the next turn you can elect to go hover type. Then at the beginning of your turn the unit can disembark 6 inches form the raven. Since the Raven didn't move before deployment it would get its full 12 inch move and then you can flat out another 18 inches also allowing full pivoting. You also gain a 4 + cover safe. Alternatively you can move the SR up to 6 inches and disembark with your Dread another 6 inches. Then it shooting you could Flat out the 18.

ianj253 wrote:

Alright, I have my rulebook now so I can confirm some stuff. If on your first move you get your SR where you want it the next turn you can elect to go hover type. Then at the beginning of your turn the unit can disembark 6 inches form the raven. Since the Raven didn't move before deployment it would get its full 12 inch move and then you can flat out another 18 inches also allowing full pivoting. You also gain a 4 + cover safe. Alternatively you can move the SR up to 6 inches and disembark with your Dread another 6 inches. Then it shooting you could Flat out the 18.

You do sell this really well. I'm certainly going to play around with it a bit more but I guess my decision on how/wehn to disembark will depend entirly on what army I'm facing an how much AA they have. Tghanks for the input it's been really helpful.

D

Yeah you just really have to take into account enemy AA and don't forget you can be assaulted too. One time I made the mistake of ending up a little to close to a space marine sgt that i forgot had a powerfist. The guy assaulted my raven and ended up blowing it up. I must say it was very unlucky for me though. He managed two hits and 1 penetrating hit, I failed both of my cover safes and he rolled a 6 to blow it up.

Hey thanks to all 3 of you for your words of wisdom. I really like when people get goin like this. I have posted lists and the thread has gone cold in 2-3 replies. I will tinker with the list here in a bit and repost to let you know what I can come up with. Also, post list ideas yourself please. I easily can over look something

I will get that Libby list up for you as soon as I get it made. its rough and it doesnt leave a lot of room for other toys but it could be interesting.

ianj253 wrote:
Yeah you just really have to take into account enemy AA and don't forget you can be assaulted too. One time I made the mistake of ending up a little to close to a space marine sgt that i forgot had a powerfist. The guy assaulted my raven and ended up blowing it up. I must say it was very unlucky for me though. He managed two hits and 1 penetrating hit, I failed both of my cover safes and he rolled a 6 to blow it up.

Yeah watch out for a sneaky assault, good call. Althugh PF are less common now toa desgree due to the chalenge thing. I always used to run PF, but now tend to go for a Power Sword. Melta bombs are still fairly common and can still ruin our day, especially as since they're not 'melta' weapons (they ahve the armourbane USR, so I assume they still get the 2d6(?)...Also you don't get cover safes in CC, so be especially aware.

 vyndetta85 wrote:
Hey thanks to all 3 of you for your words of wisdom. I really like when people get goin like this. I have posted lists and the thread has gone cold in 2-3 replies. I will tinker with the list here in a bit and repost to let you know what I can come up with. Also, post list ideas yourself please. I easily can over look something

I will get that Libby list up for you as soon as I get it made. its rough and it doesnt leave a lot of room for other toys but it could be interesting.

Interested to see what you come up with.

D