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So I did a search for tactics threads on Hornets and found 2 but they were mostly about how to outfit them and use them but only in 5th edition. Vehicles had a good bit of change in 6th edition so I hoped it would be ok to start a new one. Im going to assume there wont be many responses on this as there probably isn't that many people who have the models (but if you have them I would assume you run them :-P).

I recently made out pretty good with a yard sale so I have some cash to burn. I thought "hey maybe I'll give that forgeworld stuff a shot". I have had my eyes on quite a few eldar forgeworld models for a while now. Mainly the bad ass avatar, the M1 Abrams tank (i mean the warp hunter), the wraithseer, and the hornets. I just recently put together a really wonderfully based and painted avatar so I would feel dumb getting a new cooler looking avatar after I put so much work into the regular one. The warp hunters are a very solid unit but I worry some of my play group may not like the tank and find the D-cannon cheap. I was, and still am, considering the wraithseer as well as picking up a new finecast pack of wraithguard. But I dont know if I want to commit to a footdar list/ play style quite yet. I just love wraith models. So it leaves me with Hornets.

Basically they are what we wish vypers could be. +1 armour on the front and sides. No open topped. comes with 2 shuriken cannons and star engines already. If you wanted the extra shu-cannon and star engines on a vyper it would cost you 5 more points then a stock hornet. Oh and hornets are better shots with BS4. So you really cant go wrong. They almost downright replace the vyper. They have access to almost every heavy weapon in the eldar codex. So these suckers can be run cheap for 65 pts stock or decked out with 2 pulse lasers for 125 pts. So they can fill any roll your army needs.

My main question is.... Has anyone used them in 6th edition? They have became a 2 hull point fast skimmer with scout.

The way I see it is they are very mobile war walker with better armour. I am thinking of purchasing 2 of them for a squad. I have thought of a few ways to use them in 6th.

1. Keep them cheap and use them as a bully unit. Something that has to be dealt with and will draw fire away from your advancing army. Run it stock and outflank with it. 6 S6 shots per hornet on rear armour or exposed troops. This may be decent. But for a similar cost you can do the same thing with warp spiders who can also jet pack back into cover. Granted bolter fire cant hurt the Hornets. I jsut seems there is already another unit in the normal codex that has this role and can assault units as well.

2. Do a similar thing but invest a little more and run scatter lasers for mobiles mass S6 spam. I kind of like this as an option in a list that trys to stay on its feet and doesnt want the slowness of war walkers.

3. Something that Eldar does NOT have. S8 spam. Most any S8 shots we have come at a pretty hefty cost. The hornet changes that. for 125 pts we can take 2 pulse lasers on a mobile bs4 platform. This is what I am thinking about using the hornets for in my army. S8 ap2 can be used against vehicles, MC's, and Elite infantry with very good results. I am looking at taking 2 hornets for 8 S8 ap2 shots. Eldar never can really do that so I beleive it will fill a large gap they we usually have to try to work around by taking insane amounts of s6 shots.

Even though the hornet is only 2 hull points, it gets a jink save now. Giving more durability to that 11av front and sides. I thought about using the 2 hornets for mobile cover with my war walkers. Walkers would get 5+ cover and hornets would have a 5+ jink. Keep a farseer near and guide/ fortune for an incredible mobile firing squad. But if during deployment you feel that they would be better off outflanking then they can trash some vehicles coming in from the side as well. I also thought about that scout move. If you had first turn and didnt get the initiative stolen from you, You could line up right on the edge of your deployment zone and scout move 12" up the board (probably up a flank), then on your first turn move another 12" that direction. You would probably be able to be in almost the same exact position as if you outflanked and can still shoot both of the weapons. But now you can shoot on turn 1.

So what do current hornet owners think? How have the Hornets been treating you in 6th? Are they worth making that FW purchase?

If you like War Walkers, you'll love Hornets. They aren't just what Vypers want to be, they are what War Walkers want to be: faster, tougher, better BS.

That being said, if you don't like War Walkers (static gunline and easily killed), Hornets are just more of the same.

I do very much like Walkers :-). I think hornets got even better now with a free jink save to boot.

If your opponent lets you bring em, use em.

While good I feel that they are outclassed by the nightwing. For 145 pts you get 6 Str 6 shots and 2 Str 8 lance shots on a flyer with a 2+ jinksave.

Those 2 are actually a pretty tight choice. And whatreally is lame is they are both not even in the regular codex :-(. I am working on converting a razorwing to a nightwing to use in friendly games and tournaments that are more laidback.

It'sd threads like this that make me want to drop 500 to a grand and go crazy with Eldar again. My first army was Eldar, but almost everything I had was pewter. With finecast being the new material of choice for GW, I sold my army in hopes to rebuild again when the new codex comes out. Eldar might be a bit of an older codex and may not be as savvy for tournament play, but they are a fun army to play, and they have some awesome units.

I love harlequins, and the night spinner, and of course War Walkers. With the hornet being the way it is from FW I want to run some of them too. Just some mental notes for the future when the new codex comes out and they are my new army again.

Thanks for the info and ideas.

tedurur wrote:
While good I feel that they are outclassed by the nightwing. For 145 pts you get 6 Str 6 shots and 2 Str 8 lance shots on a flyer with a 2+ jinksave.

Nightwings can only Jink by Evading, so it means firing with Snap Shots only.

So am I correct in thinking that hornets can excel as long range artillery with all pulse lasers sitting in the backfield with the war walkers?

And when the game calls for it, depending what army you face, they can be outflankers as well. Are those both sound tactics for them?

I posted a bit about Hornets in warpspider22's Fast Attack post, but I feel Hornets are so fantastic that they really do need their own thread. I'm glad you made one.

When I run mine I like to have 2-3 squadrons, depending what I want to do with my 3rd FA slot. If I use Spiders I'll take 2x Pulse Hornets and 2x ShuCan ones. If not I'll split up the 2 Pulse ones to spread around their shooting. I haven't run the Scatter Laser ones yet, but I feel like the ShuCan ones are better. They have awesome range still because they move quickly. While for Walkers the range is the deal breaker and reason why I always shell out for Scatters, with Hornets I think it's best to go cheap or all out.

On the board they serve different roles from units that at first seem similar. This is entirely because of their speed. War Walkers with ShuCans are stuck on one side of the board after an outflank--not so with Hornets which can relocate 36" in one turn. Also, having good speed means they can start on the board with short range guns and still fire on turn one after they move, especially if you factor in scouts.

Pulse Lasers have a special place in my heart when loaded on Hornets. They shoot harder than Psyfledreads (the twin linking is easy to get with a Farseer and they function well w/o it too) and they're even 10 points cheaper. Where they really differ in comparisons like this again, is their speed. They can easily position themselves to snipe special weapons and characters with s8 instant death and can make better use of terrain. Getting a Jink save is icing on the cake since you're moving every turn that you're not immobile or stunned. Pulse Hornets do work fine in the safety of the backfield, but there are plenty reasons to have them skimming around the board freely including the aforementioned character sniping, side shots on armor and of course...

Night fighting! I always consider this when running my Hornets. They're fast enough to hug 23" range, gaining stealth but denying shrouded to the enemy. We have nothing to deal with NF aside from our speed, so I love any unit fast enough to provide that.

One last point. I move my Hornets so much I find that to twin link them I need a Farseer on a jetbike, not on foot. And I'll probably take prescience for the range too. Even then I keep my options open because I find my skimmers need to be in positions that are out of range of my powers pretty often.

Awesome! Thanks for the writeup. I hope to be pulling together an order with my 2 friends and making sure to get 2 hornets.

I liked the pulse hornets the best because its just something that we cant take anywhere else in our codex.

BTW how many hornets do you own???

Yeah I agree on the S8 proliferation. In particular I feel that S8Ap2 is an important checkpoint for an army. It just the bare minimum to negate elite infantry's armor and to start landing Pens on Necron vehicles. Not to mention glancing Land Raiders. Oh yeah and causing ID to most stuff. Very useful and very rare in our codex.

Lol I have 4 of them. I almost bought 6 but reigned it in because I don't like taking more than 2 slots of the same unit. Just too spammy. Plus when you hit 6 or so that's like your whole army. 4 gives you enough to run 2 squadrons of two and you can tweak their armaments to compliment the rest of the army.

Nice! I will almost always run these 2 with pulse lasers I assume. Use them as hard hitting strike crafts. Sort of like ravagers with outflank lol.

My part of the purchase will include te wraitheer and 2 hornets. Id love a warp hunter too but I feel If I added a warp hunter and 2 hornets to my army..... some people may not like that and think I am just trying to be cheesey. So I will gladly pay more for my distortion cannon and have it on the wraithseers shoulder lol

I have a Warp Hunter and two Pulse Hornets in mine, and nobody has complained yet

Although it might be because my Hornets' lasers couldn't penetrate a paper plate, nevermind vehicular armour, and my Warp Hunter tends to get shot down before it can do much (yes, even with Holofields most of the shots it takes either stun it, rip off the cannon, or blow it to pieces).

That's a big reason why I favor vehicles with a couple good guns instead of one great one.

I see where you're coming from Razgriz. I don't think they're terribly OP, but they'll do plenty damage if they're not dealt and not every list is MSU with tons of anti-tank. Nor should they be. The game is fun even when your dice are inefficient lol =D But Hornets have a place in any list I take to power game against other power gamers. They work well and are fun to use.

Here is a sample list with some points left over

HQ
Eldrad. Alternatively, I often run a Farseer on Jetbike w/ both runes, stones and 2 cheap powers.

Elites
5 Dragons - Exarch w/ DBF and both powers -112 (Wave Serpent w/ TL Scatt and a ShuCan)
5 Dragons - 80 (Wave Serpent w/ TL Scatt and a ShuCan)

Troops
5 Rangers
5 Rangers
10 Guardians w/ Scatter Laser
3 GJBs w/ ShuCan

Fast Attack
10 Warp Spiders - Exach w/ DDS, WD and PBlades
Pulse Hornet
2x ShuCan Hornets

Heavy
2 Scatter Walkers
1 Scatter Walker

Aegis Defense Line with Quad Gun

I like this list with Eldrad because there are tons of viable places for Guide/Presc and 2 casts is even better. Dragons with Exarxh can start in their Serpent or with the Exarch manning the Quad Gun. Very flexible and deadly both ways.

When it comes time to get objectives we have some campers and one snatcher. If need be (and if they survive) the Serpents can be used to load troops up on turn 3-4 and go get objectives by turn 5-6.

The Hornets provide the reliable concentrated firepower that I would otherwise be trying to get from Falcons. But they're cheaper, have better BS, better gun access and are only mildly more delicate.

What an amazing static gunline. It must be just a laugh riot to both play and play against.

What book are their current rules in? I found the old experimental rules, but they don't match what you guys have been saying.

The newest rules are in IA11 and possibly some apocalypse books

DarknessEternal
If you don't play a list like this, I wouldn't expect you to understand how it works. You've overlooked the fact that almost the entire army can relocate to wherever they want to be in one turn.

By static gun line I have to assume you are mostly looking at the two minimal units of Rangers. There are Guardians and Walkers to support them, but if you use cover well they do not have to be static. Especially when you can embark the Guardians into a Wave Serpent if you decide to man the Quad Gun with Fire Dragons. I admit that there are 2 static units and 3 slow units. But if that's all you see then you are missing the versatility in being able to scout, infiltrate or outflank with most of those guys. Then you still have fast units in the 3 hornets, 10 warp spiders, 2 Wave Serpents and Jetbikes. Not to mention having a transport with a flexible role. At slightly higher points you can hybridize even more, adding more Serpents or perhaps more GJBs.

Sorry it's not a typical Wraithwall or Mech spam list, but it wins me more games than it loses me. The tricky deployment options and selectively fast units does actually make it fun for me and my opponents. More interesting at least than them struggling to torrent down fortuned wraith constructs or transport spam.

I run 1 squadron of 3 backed up by 1-2 jetseers casting invisibility and fortune/guide on them. I swear by pulse lasers. 12 TL S8 AP2 shots from 48 inches away and fired at BS4 is devastating and with invisibility they have a potential 2+ re-rollable cover save in the open. The jetseers stay just close enough behind them to cast their powers on them yet be out of LoS and often range of incoming fire. They are also my AA in my 1500 list as I have no dedicated anti-flyer.

LinkXx wrote:
I run 1 squadron of 3 backed up by 1-2 jetseers casting invisibility and fortune/guide on them. I swear by pulse lasers. 12 TL S8 AP2 shots from 48 inches away and fired at BS4 is devastating and with invisibility they have a potential 2+ re-rollable cover save in the open. The jetseers stay just close enough behind them to cast their powers on them yet be out of LoS and often range of incoming fire. They are also my AA in my 1500 list as I have no dedicated anti-flyer.

Which are your primary targets with those pulse lasers against MEQ armies? You try to glance LR to death? Take down Predators? Force cover saves on Heavy Infantry? I don't field too many Falcons (and when I do, they explode quickly), so I don't know what to do with those S8 shots

Str 8 AP 2. Kill multi wound termies.

NIGHTWING INTERCEPTORS

theninjabadger wrote:
NIGHTWING INTERCEPTORS

Problem I see is, as current META, it's easier to lose your Nightwing(s) or find yourself Evading all the game despite of it's raw power rather than shooting down units. Where and when do you think Nightwing will perform better than Hornets, and when on the opposite?

Are inteceptors fliers? Points vs points vs hornets?
Also always on the board vs not always on the board.
Thinking hard about hornets

Now the real question is, if you allied with DE, do you go for the S8 spam or for the AP2 spam as a squadron of 3 pulse hydras Fortuned would make an excellent Anti Air unit and 3 ravagers with Disintegratos can wipe entire termi squads each turn, even better if the Termies are doomed first.