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Alright, so this weekend in a tournament I had another GK player land mindstrike missiles on my group of Paladins, Draigo, and Coteaz.

It was eventually ruled that each unit underneath the blast template is subject to perils, even though Brotherhood of Psykers considers the group to count as only one psyker. This obviously lead to a lot of dying, since I was taking about 5 perils per blast. He was also allocating specifically to Coteaz each time, but that seems like it is correct considering he is a psyker on his own, and simply attached to the unit.

In the GK thread, I was told they are only considered as a single psyker, so should only take one perils per Mindstrike Missile. I was just wondering if this has been ruled in a big tournament somewhere, or if there is something more concrete for this that I can show the judges at the tournament I attend... in hopes that this doesn't happen again.

What was their rationale for BoP not kicking in? I don't think there's any "rulings" for you as it's spelled out so clearly in the GK 'dex.

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
What was their rationale for BoP not kicking in? I don't think there's any "rulings" for you as it's spelled out so clearly in the GK 'dex.

I have no idea, this is what I told them, and showed the relevant entry in the book.

Still ended up getting ruled as each one hit was subject to perils.

You'd have to ask them then, because it's so blatantly wrong that I can't fathom why they'd do something like that.

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
You'd have to ask them then, because it's so blatantly wrong that I can't fathom why they'd do something like that.

Yea you'd think that whole 'Brotherhood of Psykers, unit counts as only a single psyker, perils only affects the Justicar or a random model" entry would do it...

But nope; and the guy who I was playing had played at Adepticon; and apparently was well versed in how they ruled in that case, which was basically the Stormraven was an IWIN button vs other GKs.

I was hoping NOVA or some other large tournament had FAQd it in plainer language.

BoP considers the unit as one psyker with the justicar (or equivilant) taking the hits for the unit for purposes of attacks. Its that simple. There is no reason this should apply to a whole unit.

I have forwarded this thread, along with several others, to the judges for review.

I am hoping this won't happen again. The game may have played out quite differently if my entire paladin squad hadn't been torn to pieces by mindstrike missiles.

Paladins never work out for me either. I lost 1k+ to marbo while using paladins. He nuked the entire squad, 6 paladins, and an apothecary, all with twin falchions or brotherhood banner, their 350 point grandmaster, and their crusader transport. It was not a good day.

I had (or rather caused) a similar situation in a game recently and the way we played it was that it caused one perils for the marker landing over squad as a whole and an additional perils allocated to the IC if the marker was physically over their base. This seemed to be the correct interpretation as the IC's don't have the BoP rule to cover for them.

 Tracer Bullet wrote:
I had (or rather caused) a similar situation in a game recently and the way we played it was that it caused one perils for the marker landing over squad as a whole and an additional perils allocated to the IC if the marker was physically over their base. This seemed to be the correct interpretation as the IC's don't have the BoP rule to cover for them.

Yea, I wouldn't argue with this.

1 perils for the squad, regardless of how many models are covered.

If an IC is covered, they obviously get perils as well.

I just looked under brotherhood of psycher in rule book. pg 33. Perils is taken against the leader or one randomly assigned model in the unit. and the IC if hes hit as he's a seperate psycher. So yes he screwed you over >.<

 daedalus-templarius wrote:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
You'd have to ask them then, because it's so blatantly wrong that I can't fathom why they'd do something like that.

Yea you'd think that whole 'Brotherhood of Psykers, unit counts as only a single psyker, perils only affects the Justicar or a random model" entry would do it...

But nope; and the guy who I was playing had played at Adepticon; and apparently was well versed in how they ruled in that case, which was basically the Stormraven was an IWIN button vs other GKs.

I was hoping NOVA or some other large tournament had FAQd it in plainer language.

The INAT FAQ, which is what Adepticon uses, ruled quite clearly that each missile which covers at least one model causes ONE perils on the unit, because per BoP, the unit as a whole is treated as one psyker. So if two Mindstrike missiles each covered at least one model in the unit, that would be TWO total Perils. Not one per model covered.

Your opponent apparently misrepresented what is stated quite plainly in the biggest tournament FAQ out there.

GW is rough with making 1 hit weapons but they arent that rough.

If 1 thing is rampaging your army wihtout being touched, its probably being used wrong.

 Mannahnin wrote:

 daedalus-templarius wrote:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
You'd have to ask them then, because it's so blatantly wrong that I can't fathom why they'd do something like that.

Yea you'd think that whole 'Brotherhood of Psykers, unit counts as only a single psyker, perils only affects the Justicar or a random model" entry would do it...

But nope; and the guy who I was playing had played at Adepticon; and apparently was well versed in how they ruled in that case, which was basically the Stormraven was an IWIN button vs other GKs.

I was hoping NOVA or some other large tournament had FAQd it in plainer language.

The INAT FAQ, which is what Adepticon uses, ruled quite clearly that each missile which covers at least one model causes ONE perils on the unit, because per BoP, the unit as a whole is treated as one psyker. So if two Mindstrike missiles each covered at least one model in the unit, that would be TWO total Perils. Not one per model covered.

Your opponent apparently misrepresented what is stated quite plainly in the biggest tournament FAQ out there.

I like how he specifically referenced Adepticon, and was wearing an Adepticon shirt, yet had the Adepticon ruling completely wrong; in addition to telling me that the Stormraven was an 'IWIN' button against GK at the actual Tournament.

How you could misinterpret this ruling is beyond me, it is stated VERY PLAINLY.

GK.21A.02 – Q: If a Mindstrike missile hits Grey
Knight models in a unit that has ‘Brotherhood of
Pyskers’, how many ‘Perils of the Warp’ tests would
be caused?
A: Each Mindstrike missile blast that covers one or more
models in the unit would inflict a single ‘Perils of the Warp’
attack (as the unit counts as being only a single psyker)
[clarification].

GK.21A.03 – Q: If a Grey Knight unit with
‘Brotherhood of Pyskers’ suffers multiple ‘Perils of
the Warp’ attacks at the same time (such as being
hit by several Mindstrike missiles at once) what
happens?
A: All the ‘Perils of the Warp’ attacks caused at the same
time (from the same enemy unit’s shooting) are resolved
against the Justicar/Knight of the Flame, if present. If the
unit doesn’t have a Justicar/Knight of the Flame, then
randomly determine a (non-character) model in the unit to
suffer each ‘Perils of the Warp’ attack [clarification].

 daedalus-templarius wrote:
and was wearing an Adepticon shirt, yet had the Adepticon ruling completely wrong

They're not honor badges given to the most devout and those pure of heart. They're probably free with entry

How many Psykers are under the Template?

Well, BoP says the unit is a single psyker...

Seriously, If people say BoP doesn't come into it, then you actually can't even give the unit a Perils with the Mindstrike Missile because if BoP is out of the picture then nobody actually has the Psyker rule.

 Vindicare-Obsession wrote:
GW is rough with making 1 hit weapons but they arent that rough.

Doesn't the missile inflict a number of real (not perils) hits on the models underneath it as well?

Yeah, its still basically a Frag missile.

 Ghenghis Jon wrote:

 Vindicare-Obsession wrote:
GW is rough with making 1 hit weapons but they arent that rough.

Doesn't the missile inflict a number of real (not perils) hits on the models underneath it as well?

Its alot harder to kill a unit of terminators with FNP with a frag missile than it is an ap2 perils attack.

 Vindicare-Obsession wrote:

 Ghenghis Jon wrote:

 Vindicare-Obsession wrote:
GW is rough with making 1 hit weapons but they arent that rough.

Doesn't the missile inflict a number of real (not perils) hits on the models underneath it as well?

Its alot harder to kill a unit of terminators with FNP with a frag missile than it is an ap2 perils attack.

...than an ap2; no invuln save perils attack even... at least they still get that amazing FNP for perils!!!

One of the guys that was a judge at the store reasoned that each model covered by the blast template is a separate hit... therefore inflicting perils again.

/smh.

That is incorrect. They are a single psyker for purposes of an attack which means they can only be effected by 1 perils hit per attack.

 Vindicare-Obsession wrote:
That is incorrect. They are a single psyker for purposes of an attack which means they can only be effected by 1 perils hit per attack.

Oh I know, that's what I said too.

It is a single S4 hit per model covered. But it's also a single Perils per psyker covered, and the whole unit counts as one Psyker for purposes of attacks which affect psykers, per BoP.

 daedalus-templarius wrote:

 Vindicare-Obsession wrote:
That is incorrect. They are a single psyker for purposes of an attack which means they can only be effected by 1 perils hit per attack.

Oh I know, that's what I said too.

Dont know what to say then. The head of my FLGS is the same way about challenges. Dosen't matter what logic you throw at him, they are banned. Dont you hate people who are never wrong?