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After going through the new rules and the new book I propose that Black Templar players now focus on massed Storm Shield units. So Sword Bretheren with all stormshields,
Behind them you run your bulk units, massed units of initiates/neophites

With the addition of allies we can have 2 Emperors Champtions, so I believe we should take rage and the +1s and -1I

Not much to change IMO. Chaplain is a must in your CC Crusader squad. Smaller games just foot slog 10 Initiates/10 Neos, EC, and Chappy with 3 Servitors. Neos and Servitors serve as fodder, with the added bonus of +3 Servitor inches on RZ moves. Throw a Techmarine in for extra PF attacks.

10 man Shooty Crusader squads for a gunline. PlasmaGun and Missle/Las. In an Aegis for lolz.

Speeders are still viable I believe; not sure how the typos worked out on the FAQ with other language FAQs had their original Typhoon Launchers.

Any bigger and you can bring the LRC deathstar with LC and SS/TH Termis with a TDA Chappy. Bring two Preds, loadout dependant upon the foe.

The SS spam is way too expensive, as they run basically 25 points a pop (gotta give them Termi honors first). I have been finding that the same stuff works like normal, and if you enjoy shooting lists mass typhoon/cyclone is always powerful.

I don't run Neo's because AP4 is too common now a days. I find the points are better spent on more Marines. At least 40 marines on the ground and support is what I run, but I also enjoy foot/melee lists more and would rather lose with one than win with strictly shooting.

Assault cannons or missile launchers on our regular termies?

UNREALPwnage wrote:
Assault cannons or missile launchers on our regular termies?

AC gains more from tank hunters CML costs less.

Black Templar termies are one of the scariest units around in 6th ed.

What do you think about dual Emperors champions

How does having allies allow you to have two emperors champions?

You have the mandated first emperors champ. If you ally in another army your HQ can be the emperors champ for that army and you can pick a basic troop as well.

UNREALPwnage wrote:
You have the mandated first emperors champ. If you ally in another army your HQ can be the emperors champ for that army and you can pick a basic troop as well.

You can't ally with the same army as your primary detachment, if that is what you're getting at.

Yes, you can never take 2 Emperor's Champions.

Have you thought about allying them with Grey Knights? Strike Squads can backup Black Templars quite nicely, and being able to make a large group of Templar terminators with a chaplin scoring via a grey knight grandmaster seems like it would be fun.

omerakk wrote:
Yes, you can never take 2 Emperor's Champions.

Have you thought about allying them with Grey Knights? Strike Squads can backup Black Templars quite nicely, and being able to make a large group of Templar terminators with a chaplin scoring via a grey knight grandmaster seems like it would be fun.

You know I wonder about that first statement. It says you can only have one emperor's champion per detachment, and in fact must include him in each detachment that is over 750 points. With the way the double FoC is worded at 2,000 points... would that not require 2 champions? I don't have either books in front of me at the moment to check wording.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/474766.page

Not even off the first page yet...

Why would you want 2 Emperor's Champions anyway???
They're not that great anymore, and in a double FOC setup you would need a Marshal and/or Chaplain as the EC does not count as an HQ for the purpose of having a 2nd commander...

phoenix darkus wrote:
Why would you want 2 Emperor's Champions anyway???
They're not that great anymore, and in a double FOC setup you would need a Marshal and/or Chaplain as the EC does not count as an HQ for the purpose of having a 2nd commander...

?? You don't get to have two warlords, as far as I know he should suffice to fulfill the HQ slot for the second primary detachment.

And really it's not that black templar have a choice in the matter, he is required over 750 points and since he can never be your warlord you have to field another HQ unit as well. Pretty crappy for BT players, I must admit.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Amanax wrote:

omerakk wrote:
Yes, you can never take 2 Emperor's Champions.

Have you thought about allying them with Grey Knights? Strike Squads can backup Black Templars quite nicely, and being able to make a large group of Templar terminators with a chaplin scoring via a grey knight grandmaster seems like it would be fun.

You know I wonder about that first statement. It says you can only have one emperor's champion per detachment, and in fact must include him in each detachment that is over 750 points. With the way the double FoC is worded at 2,000 points... would that not require 2 champions? I don't have either books in front of me at the moment to check wording.

Require? No, because you could make your second primary detachment only 500 points if you wanted and leave your first primary as 1500 points.

But yes, if both primary detachments go over 750 points (which really anything over 2000 points won't be hard to accomplish) then one in each would be mandatory.

phoenix darkus wrote:
Why would you want 2 Emperor's Champions anyway???
They're not that great anymore, and in a double FOC setup you would need a Marshal and/or Chaplain as the EC does not count as an HQ for the purpose of having a 2nd commander...

Two champions gets you two vows which your whole army will bebefit from.

Rustican wrote:

phoenix darkus wrote:
Why would you want 2 Emperor's Champions anyway???
They're not that great anymore, and in a double FOC setup you would need a Marshal and/or Chaplain as the EC does not count as an HQ for the purpose of having a 2nd commander...

Two champions gets you two vows which your whole army will bebefit from.

Mm...I would argue it's only per detachment. Or if it was argued/proven that it wouldn't be then I'd say you probably only get one vow as the requirement had been fulfilled.

Though, does the rule for the EC and vows say you pick one for fielding an EC or you pick one for each (well, it wouldn't say that really but something similar). I suppose I'm asking, what is the wording for EC's and Vows exactly...

*Edit*
Nevermind, I found it. So ya, you'd get two vows. With how the rules for detachments are in 6th though I'd still say each vow only affects the detachment the EC is in. But, hm...

Ahhh... Someon will have to explain this in writing, and back up that proof where you can take 2 EC and 2 VOWs at any point vaule. Sounds like a lot of BS if you ask me. Sorry to offend anyone.

Our FAQ says only 1 EC per primary detatchment. You only have 1 primary detachment per 2000 points.

Correct?

J99Pwrangler wrote:
Ahhh... Someon will have to explain this in writing, and back up that proof where you can take 2 EC and 2 VOWs at any point vaule. Sounds like a lot of BS if you ask me. Sorry to offend anyone.

Our FAQ says only 1 EC per primary detatchment. You only have 1 primary detachment per 2000 points.

Correct?

Well, first off no one said "at any point value", I don't think. Secondly...

At 2000 points and up you are allowed to take a second primary detachment (and thus a second ally detachment and second fortification). You're then allowed to take two emperor's champions (And in fact MUST if your primary detachment is over 750 pts). The emperor's champion "must" choose a vow when included in a black templar army.

I'm actually a bit suprised you can take a second EC, I'd have thought you wouldn't be able to even if you use a secondary primary detachment.

Rules wise I guess in a way this makes sense, but as a BT player I'd probably be happier if it was just one, it adds to the theme/fluff of the BT more I think to have just the one. Although I suppose you could say they are crusades working together etc too..... I guess I just defeated my own point

My question is though do the vows cross detachments? if it does this seems like a tricky thing to keep track of, if you do't mark up properly.

Doesnt the VOW effect go army wide? I guess youd have to read the rules carefully on this.

Its seems so broken, and wrong to do.

J99Pwrangler wrote:
Doesnt the VOW effect go army wide? I guess youd have to read the rules carefully on this.

Its seems so broken, and wrong to do.

I think it does but maybe the vows would be detachment specific...... I guess it depends on how the term army wide would be applied.

It does seem a bit broken but if people want to do it I guess they could, I'm just wondering more out of curiousity rather than a want to do it, as I've said I've got one Emperors Champion and I'm happy with him, I don't want another. (Plus I'd never get around to painting another one anyways )

J99Pwrangler wrote:
Doesnt the VOW effect go army wide? I guess youd have to read the rules carefully on this.

Its seems so broken, and wrong to do.

This is when you get into the debate of "what is your army"? Currently, everything in the rulebook defines "your army" as your primary detachment. If you field 2 primary detachments, you are for all intents and purposes fielding two armies. So yes, it would stand to reason that the vows only affect the primary detachment that the EC is in. However, this would become a logistical nightmare on the field trying to remember which squad was in which primary detachment. And even more so for your enemy who may not know BT that well (if at all).

J99Pwrangler wrote:
Doesnt the VOW effect go army wide? I guess youd have to read the rules carefully on this.

Its seems so broken, and wrong to do.

Black Templars FAQ V1.1 found here: http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m2570036a_Black_Templars_v1.1.pdf

Vows affect all friendly models chosen from Codex: Black Templars as stated in the latest FAQ. The FAQ also allows for one emperors champion per primary detachment. Take two primary detachments with two champions and two different vows. There is nothing that states vows only affect a specific detachment.

Page 25 – Accept any Challenge, No Matter the Odds.
Replace this entry with “This vow affects all friendly models
chosen from Codex: Black Templars except Neophytes and
vehicles that are not walkers.These models have the Rage
special rule.”

Page 25 – Abhor the Witch, Destroy the Witch.
Change the first sentence of the first paragraph to read:
“This vow affects all friendly units chosen from Codex: Black
Templars (including vehicles) and happens after deployment
but before deploying Infiltrators or redeploying units with the
Scouts special rule”.

Q. Can I field more than one Emperor’s Champion? (p31)
A. You can only have one Emperor’s Champion per primary
detatchment chosen from Codex: Black Templars.

Well, they only reference those two vows, not all of them. But ya, with the FAQ wording I suppose they would affect all stated models. *Shrug*

Pretty beast for such a small (mandatory) point investment.

 Kevin949 wrote:
Well, they only reference those two vows, not all of them. But ya, with the FAQ wording I suppose they would affect all stated models. *Shrug*

Pretty beast for such a small (mandatory) point investment.

The other two vows should also work.

Suffer not the unclean pg 24 in the codex written as is:

When roll to wound in close combat, the Black Templars add +1 to their Strength ...

Uphold the Honor of the Emperor:

Taken from the FAQ -- and appended to the Codex entry

Page 24 – Uphold the Honour of The Emperor.
Change the first sentence of the first paragraph to read to:
“No friendly units chosen from Codex: Black Templars may take
cover saves.” -- However ,such is their faith in the Emperor and their own invulnerability they shrug off the most severe wounds, and therefore gain a 6+ invulnerable...

Uphold is not a recommended vow since the loss of cover saves is not worth a 6++.

Take 10 Sword Brethren Terminators and then take an allied GK Grand Master to make the Sword Brethren a scoring unit.

I have 15 regular terminators & 8 assault terminators. In 5th, I've never taken the Chaplains. With the effect of the vow AACNMTO being changed to Rage, I believe its time to change my HQ characters.

If I take a GK as ally, can the GM still make his GK units as scoring via his grand strategies?

That seems pretty insane that you can take 2 EC @ 2000+ points, with 2 VOWs that go army wide... o the possibilities.

ACC is one VOW youll need to take, and Abhor is the second best imo.