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Hey everyone!

I've been playing WHFB now for almost half a year and I think I want to get into playing 40k. Now that there's a new edition out, I figured it'd be a good place to start up.

Before I start talking about anything else, I'd like to just through it out there and say that I know very limited about the playstyle, rules and layout of 40k, and I know even less about the equipment and how things work.

Anyways, I want to start 40k by picking up Tyranids; I find the models spectacular and the painting will be rewarding (I hope).. Other than that, I wanted a different experience from my fantasy army which is Warriors of Chaos - very elite and small army, where as Tyranids is pretty swarm-like. I need some help though. I picked up the codex today and other than not knowing what any of the actual stat lines/rules mean, I wanted to know which units are good and which units aren't.

Are all the HQ choices pretty decent? For troops is it better to go with a couple squads of Warriors of multitudes of Hormagaunts/Termagaunts? What are good Elite choices? What is fast attack, just fast units who aren't as tough; and are there any good ones in the Nid's codex? Also, I'd like to believe that all of the really great looking models avaliable in the Heavy Support section are really good in the game, but i find that's never really the case with anything; I'm sure they're all way overpriced or something and I'll never actually get to field something cool like a Trygon or a Carnifex.

Anyway, thanks for whatever help you can give me guys. Sorry for being all out n00b on this stuff.

On a side note, I was thinking of doing a black/white scheme. I realize that it's not going to represent any of the actual Hive Fleets, but I think it would look really cool with some bright green in there somewhere too.

Welcome to the Hive Mind, you have timed it well. Nids got some significant boosts in 6th Ed that really dragged them up by the boot heels.

So, if your after a swarm you came to the right place, Terma/Hormagaunts can make up the bulk of your troops and with the removal of no retreat wounds you can keep em cheap and cheerful. I like to run my gaunts in 30 creature broods to give them some real staying power and take best advantage of my psi power buffs. If you find yourself favouring Termagants over Hormies then you could certainly do worse than a Tervigon who is a 6W scoring MC that creates more termagants and buffs all the ones near it. Warriors add a bit of elite bite but are horrifically vulnerable to S8 pie plates and very pricey points wise and as such (gorgeous as the models are) you tend to be better fielding more gaunts or Genestealers to give your swarm more teeth. Genestealers were buffed in that the Broodlords access to the books psi powers gives him a lot more flexibility than his old beatstick self.

For HQ's Primes are a nice low point discount leader, they can hide in your gaunts to keep them in line and back a nice punch but the real heavy hitter is the Tyrant. Expensive as hell but he is the beating heart of your swarm, either with Tyrant Guard and footslogging with army buffs or on leathery wings swooping around picking on priority targets and flyers. Between his psi powers, army buffs and precision shooting (Devourers especially) he is bringing so much to the army to justify that huge price tag, and of course we finally got a plastic kit that even has a wings option.

Elites used to be the domain of Hive Guard, your main anti-mech option and they are still great, but psi power packing Zoans and charging from reserve Ymgarls are also major contenders now. This is the slot most often filled as it contains your utility beasts, there are pages on Dakka regarding this slot and it's preferred load out.

Fast attack units are what they say on the tin. It tends to be jump pack troops, bikes, beasts, jetbikes that kind of thing and two main nid units come from there. Gargoyles are flying gaunts who are even better in melee and cost 1 point more. They have a pretty new plastic kit, look great and are a swine to transport. If your looking for more models for your swarm you can't really go wrong.
Then there are Raveners, faster but less effective warriors. They have all the vulnerabilities of warriors but a small brood can sometimes escape notice and get round the sides or deep strike somewhere scary and threaten less capable back field units.

Finally Heavy Support, the big lads. Carnifex's have sadly been relegated to hitting tanks with their faces and packing anti-infantry/anti-APC firepower. Armed with Devourers or Stranglethorn cannon they will throw wounds around and give you some nasty mid range shooting but have bad WS and I and will now get grenaded by most troops and killed. The Trygon on the other hand is a monster, a deadly melee fighter who can be upgraded to add to your synapse web, most squads wil crumble under the assault of one of these bad boys though even they must be wary of things like Grey Knights who excel at hunting you big gribblies.

In terms of army composition I'm finding that at 1500pts you can easily field 2-3 MC's and still rock up with 60 gaunt species and support. Nids have developed to have a very Eldar flavour to them in the way they work best with overlapping powers and buffs, a gaunt seems like a meh deal at 5pts, but when he's rocking Endurance, Preferred Enemy, Counter Attack, Toxin and Adrenal Glands from the rest of your army a brood of them can even set the best the Astartes have sweating...

Nids play the game of target priority, your troops will die, but if he shoots the little ones the big ones get him, shoot the big ones and get buried in the tide of chitin. Leave the lamenting each loss to the Astartes, yours are the faceless hordes, the inevitable tide that will wash away the Imperium in blood and death.

The viability of Tyranid Warriors and Carnifexes really, really depends on the people you're playing against and the type of terrain you use.

If there's a plethora of missile launchers/other S8+ weapons, you're better off leaving these at home. It won't take long to a Carnifex to be kraked to death and a single S8+ weapon will vapourize a Warrior.

That said, if the people you're playing against aren't as big on anti tank (I know mine aren't these days) they are pretty durable.

Carnifexes with two pairs of Devourers are great - they put out an astonishing amount of firepower and can still hit hard in assault. If you're playing with terrain similar in size to the GW ruined buildings, hiding a Carnifex until it's the right time to strike isn't hard at all, while the much preferred Trygon will tower over said terrain and eat krak missile after krak missile.

Warriors are a unit I love, and bring every game, but even when they've survived past turn 2 they've failed to accomplish much. Their firepower tends to be too weak and, unless armed with Boneswords, their melee hitting power is forgettable.

First of all thanks for some advice you guys, it's really appreciated.

So, so far I've gathered that Tyranids sound pretty good in this edition, which is encouraging! I went and picked up the codex.

As for HQ's I have lots of choices, but it seems that the general consensus is that a winged Hive Tyrant is the way to go? If he is winged, would you still take the Hive Guard? The Swarmlord is one of those guys who is worth a ton of points but is absolutely worth it when you take him (in bigger games I'm assuming)? Then there's the tervigon, which also comes highly reccmended. Is it possible to take more than 1 HQ? So that I could have a Tyrant and then still utilize the Tervigon's spawning?

As for elites, I still don't really know what to take, one of you mentioned Hive Guard in this slot, I thought they were part of your HQ choice when you chose Hive Tyrant. Zoanthropes sound really cool for killing heavy vehicles'with warp lance. So does Doom of Malan'tai, his life absorb thing sounds awesome, he could be all the way up to 10 wounds!

Troops, most people have recommended termagants, which is kind meh because hormagaunts have cooler models but that's okay. Can't you take tervigons in troop choices somehow as well, or am I making that up? What are genestealers good for; they worth taking?

Fast attack, gargoyles are the best choice? Flying close combat dive bombers?

Heavy Support, I am glad to hear that I'll be able to play a sick model like the Trygon, are they actually good? Some yes yes, some say not so much. What makes them worth it? And the Carnifex, only good when built super shooty?

More questions, I know but I'm sort of seeing the kind of things I like. Nidzilla sounds cool, but so does a couple MC with lots of little bugs.

I don't have any test models of the scheme, or any models of Tyranids at all whatsoever. I don't even know what I'll buy first. Battle force box set; is it worth it?

The battle force is a decent place to start. It gives you 2 squads of Gaunts, which are likely going to be the core of your army (model them both as some sort of ranged Gaunt if possible), a squad of Genestealers (model as Ygmarl Genestealers, which can assault after outflanking), and a squad of warriors (not the best units, but if I recall correctly, they are psykers and can extend synapse). It doesn't give you any of the MC's that you want (which will be Tegrivons, Trygons, and Tyrants) but its a decent start and a ton of bodies.

IainL wrote:
As for HQ's I have lots of choices, but it seems that the general consensus is that a winged Hive Tyrant is the way to go? If he is winged, would you still take the Hive Guard? The Swarmlord is one of those guys who is worth a ton of points but is absolutely worth it when you take him (in bigger games I'm assuming)? Then there's the tervigon, which also comes highly reccmended. Is it possible to take more than 1 HQ? So that I could have a Tyrant and then still utilize the Tervigon's spawning?

Flyrants are good, but they won't be supporting the rest of your army, they'll be too busy flying around shooting things. Which is good, if you're designed your army to work without the psychic power buffs, synapse prescence and potention PI bubble a Hive Tyrant can provide. Regular Tyrants provide some good army buffs, so weight up your options.

A Swarmlord is like a regular Tyrant++. It's bigger, badder, meaner in assault and its army buffs and psychic powers are better. But you really pay for it, especially since you'll want at least one Tyrant Guard with it, due to its 3+ save.

Tyrant Guard aren't worth taking without a walking Tyrant. They're a slow wound wall, and there's nothing worth attaching them to other than the Tyrant.

Don't take Tervigons as HQ. They're better as troops, as they're scoring MCs.

IainL wrote:
As for elites, I still don't really know what to take, one of you mentioned Hive Guard in this slot, I thought they were part of your HQ choice when you chose Hive Tyrant. Zoanthropes sound really cool for killing heavy vehicles'with warp lance. So does Doom of Malan'tai, his life absorb thing sounds awesome, he could be all the way up to 10 wounds!

Hive Guard are different to Tyrant Guard. They're tough little gun platforms that basically fire two AP4 krak missiles at 24" that don't require line of sight, and ignore most cover. They're great little transport hunters, though I've started not taking them due to my Flyrant generally killing transports before Hive Guard are even in range.

I get a lot of use out of Zoanthropes. If you need some heavy vehicle hitting power, keep their default powers. If you don't, roll Biomancy for them and try to get Endurance.

The Doom of Malan'tai is basically a nuke. Pod him in between a few squads, watch them wither, then expect it to die next turn from an S8+ weapon. 10 wounds doesn't mean anything with T4 and no Eternal Warrior. It's a great surprise unit, and will divert your opponents attention for a turn while leeching a squad or two, and that's all it needs to do.

IainL wrote:
Troops, most people have recommended termagants, which is kind meh because hormagaunts have cooler models but that's okay. Can't you take tervigons in troop choices somehow as well, or am I making that up? What are genestealers good for; they worth taking?

To take Tervigons as troops, take a Termagant unit as troops. It's a special rule called Scuttling Horde or something under either the Tervigon or Termagant entry in the army list.

I still recommend Hormagaunts. I've had good success with a large brood of 20-30. They will die, that's the point. A huge brood shoved down your opponents throat. Back it up with some termagants and a Tervigon for claiming objectives.

Genestealers are amazingly good assault units as long as you can find a unit to assault that's not in cover. This isn't easy. They lost a lot of power with 6th edition ruleing no one can assault from Outflank, but they're still great shock assault units. Their main weakness is lack of assault grenades.

IainL wrote:
Fast attack, gargoyles are the best choice? Flying close combat dive bombers?

Gargoyles are amazing for their points. Fully upgraded at 8 points each, they have poison and furious charge. This added to their blinding poison ability, they hit really hard when they charge. Two units of 10 are a cheap investment for fast moving units your opponent can't afford to ignore.

Shrikes and Raveners are decent, but they're glass cannons. If they don't kill what they assault on the turn they assault, return hits will hurt them hard. They're not bad, but they're a bit too pricey for what they offer.

Sky Slashers suck.

IainL wrote:
Heavy Support, I am glad to hear that I'll be able to play a sick model like the Trygon, are they actually good? Some yes yes, some say not so much. What makes them worth it? And the Carnifex, only good when built super shooty?

Trygons are fantastic. Fast, tough, and hit like a freight train. Their main issue is the size of the model - you won't find much better than 5+ cover saves for it. I run two Carnifexes at the moment, one built for assault (two pairs of scything talons) and one dakkafex (two pairs of devourers). Both prove their worth every game. I find I like tham more than Trygons due to being able to not only claim more cover, but we use lots of terrain that can completely obscure a Carnifex. helps them get to the right place at the right time.

IainL wrote:
More questions, I know but I'm sort of seeing the kind of things I like. Nidzilla sounds cool, but so does a couple MC with lots of little bugs.

Nidzilla is hard to run well, due to Nid MCs being grossly overcosted in the current book. A mox of all kinds of Tyranids works for me, and makes the army list a lot more interesting.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

RegalPhantom wrote:
a squad of Genestealers (model as Ygmarl Genestealers, which can assault after outflanking)

Ymgarls can't assault after outflanking because Ymgarls can't outflank. They have a special deployment type. Also, there aren't enough Ymgarl heads in the battleforce.

RegalPhantom wrote:
and a squad of warriors (not the best units, but if I recall correctly, they are psykers and can extend synapse)

They're not psykers. They're also not particularly good with the options in the battleforce. With boneswords they can be good assault units, but the battleforce doesn't include them.

I'm no way an expert with 'nids but I will give it a try.

IainL wrote:
So, so far I've gathered that Tyranids sound pretty good in this edition, which is encouraging! I went and picked up the codex.

It really depends. If your FLGS is packed with forceweapon-swinging Purifiers, the effectivity of your swarm shrinks drastically, but Tyranids got a really decent buff with the psyker-tables and the new flying Monstrous Creatures.

IainL wrote:
As for HQ's I have lots of choices, but it seems that the general consensus is that a winged Hive Tyrant is the way to go? If he is winged, would you still take the Hive Guard? The Swarmlord is one of those guys who is worth a ton of points but is absolutely worth it when you take him (in bigger games I'm assuming)? Then there's the tervigon, which also comes highly reccmended. Is it possible to take more than 1 HQ? So that I could have a Tyrant and then still utilize the Tervigon's spawning?

You are allowed to take up to 2 HQ choices in any normal-sized 40k-game, but more important for you is, that you are allowed to take a single Tervigon as a troop-choice for every unit of Termagants you field. As mentioned before, this is superior to the HQ-Tervigon, as the Troop-Tervigon can hold objectives. For the Flyrant goes, he is works possibly best as a high mobile shooting-platform with 2 twin-linked Devourers.

IainL wrote:
As for elites, I still don't really know what to take, one of you mentioned Hive Guard in this slot, I thought they were part of your HQ choice when you chose Hive Tyrant. Zoanthropes sound really cool for killing heavy vehicles'with warp lance. So does Doom of Malan'tai, his life absorb thing sounds awesome, he could be all the way up to 10 wounds!

There is a different between the Hive Guard from the elite-section who acts as a mid-range counter to light - medium vehicles and the Tyrant Guard who acts as a cc-bodyguard for a Foot-Tyrant (Iirc they can't be bought with a Flyrant). With the new psychic powers from the rulebook, Zoanthropes can be used to buff nearby other units instead of the classic one-shoot-warp-lance-in-a-spore-pod. They are very viable now.

IainL wrote:
Troops, most people have recommended termagants, which is kind meh because hormagaunts have cooler models but that's okay. Can't you take tervigons in troop choices somehow as well, or am I making that up? What are genestealers good for; they worth taking?

As mentioned above the Tervigon & Termagant-combo is really good, but that does not mean the other troop options are not usefull (except Rippers ). Hormagaunts and Genestealers are both viable options and even warriors, if used right, can fill their role in your plan.

IainL wrote:
Fast attack, gargoyles are the best choice? Flying close combat dive bombers?

A medium-sized group of those is a perfect and affordable screen for a Winged Hivetyrant. You just move them before the Tyrant so he gets a cover save. The effectiveness of this has decreased in 6th edition but it's still better than nothing as you can't get an invulnerable save.

IainL wrote:
Heavy Support, I am glad to hear that I'll be able to play a sick model like the Trygon, are they actually good? Some yes yes, some say not so much. What makes them worth it? And the Carnifex, only good when built super shooty?

Personally I'm in love with the model of the Trygon. They look absolutely gorgeous and are probably your heaviest hitters next to the Swarmlord (Are they still considered Biotitans?), but you pay an at least reasonable price for that. If you can manage to get him into the juicy parts of the enemy army they will serve you well. Here goes the same as always for targetsaturation: If you have the points field two! There are few armies who can stop two of these babies at the same time from getting to their armys and they are an awesome way to deliver a Synapse-Aura into the thickest of battle, if make them Primes. So your Hormagaunts can stay fearless nearly all the time.

Shadox, thank you for a lot of clarification! People were saying to take a winged tyrant, that he was a must, but if I can't take the tyrant guard for him I may just take the foot version. Also thanks for clearing up the difference between tyrant/hive guard. I'm excited to try a tervigon as troop choice, it can spawn even more bugs right? Are the trygons really that good? Everybody praises them! And what is the big difference between Trygon and Trygon Prime?

All this help is really appreciated everyone!

IainL wrote:
Are the trygons really that good? Everybody praises them! And what is the big difference between Trygon and Trygon Prime?

All this help is really appreciated everyone!

T6, W6, A6, dual scything talons, ranged attack and fleet standard. Add 40 more points and its ranged attack gets even better and gets synapse.

Compared to a Carnifex at T6, W4, A4, no fleet, and loses its scything talons to get its ranged attacks, though dual Devourers are better due to twin linked.

The Trygon isn't arguably better than a Carnifex, it is better. Carnifexes saving graces used to be S9 and smaller model, but since a Trygon can smash, and get nearly as many attacks at a higher strength, or not smash and get more at lower strength, that benefit is gone.

The Carnifexes only saving grace now is the smaller stature. You can hide one where a Trygon would struggle to get a cover save.

So the trygon is great in CC, but isn't the "Dakkafex" a better option for shooting?

Techincally yes. A Carnifex with two sets of Devourers will land more hits than a Trygons shooting attack.

What you need to decide is if the small extra ranged output is offset by the less wounds, less attacks in assault (and it will get into assault, since its short range will put it in assault range), loss of fleet and loss of dual scything talons.

Overall, the Trygon is better, but a Dakkafex isn't bad.

Yeah, poor Carnifex's. They'd be classed as decent despite the sky high points if in the same sweep Tyrgon's hadn't been born into the codex, a gap made wider by the FAQ that lets the Trygon Prime Challenge that pesky Power Fist sarg and tear him apart first. Fex's have a few nice tricks up their sleeves (Bio-plasma, Devourers, Stranglethorn) but they are simply outclassed by their new big brothers. If you're not playing in a competetive meta though who cares, go with what you like. If your're still seeing a lot of APC's the Dakkafex will on average glance a Rhino to death in a single volley... There are only a few real stinkers in the dex (Pyrovore, maybe the Lictor) so you can get away with a lot more against casual opponents.

As Loki says though you don't need to write off Hormagaunts but I find the army works best if you pick Horma or Terma and stick with it as Horma's dont benefit from the Tervigon so you tend to come at the army from a different direction. Where one person might take 30 gaunts and a Tervigon you could easy go with 60 Hormagaunts for the same points and still have a nasty block of bugs.

The problem of Ymgarl heads isn't really a big one, they are constantly mutating, a few armour plates, extra arm on some or maybe a even just a different paint job and you're good to go. I tend to use them as hit squads for annoying enemy models. One minute they are safe and sound causing me headaches, the next they are up to their eyeballs in super genestealers and fighting for their lives...

Dunklezahn wrote:
The problem of Ymgarl heads isn't really a big one, they are constantly mutating

They don't mutate their heads. Their defining feature on a body always mutating is their feeder tendrils.

I agree it's fine using any stealers as Ymgarls, but if you find someone picky over it, that really is proxying.

Well I will most likely be just playing pretty non-competitive matches, but I wouldn't be opposed to winning a few lol. That's okay, I like the Trygon model moreso than the Carmifex. But that's not to say I wont try it out still.

What's the difference between termagants and hormagaunts? One is more shooty, one is CC? Because they both seem like fun options, termagants maybe more so because of the tervigon. Are genestealers troops too? Or should I only bother with the Ymgarls?