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new list

DexterAtWarhammerWorld wrote:
okay so this is is my death korps of krieg imperial guard list.
so in the new edition i think everything needs flyers so that's what i have done.
basically i deploy as far back as i can with the aegis defence line almost covering my whole army this means along with my camo cloaks i will be getting 3+ cover saves EVEN MY TANKS.
let my vendettas go up and blow stuff with 9 twin linked lasscannons while my 2 executioners fire 10 plasma cannon shots each turn.
and the troops are there to simply capture objectives while also getting the hand of my cheap and trustworthy command groups
and remember 5/6 of the games our objective games in the rulebook

HQ:195
command group
-commander - power weapon
-vox caster
-regimental standard
-astropath----------------------->plus 1 to reserve rolls so i need 2+ to come on 2ND turn

command group
-commander - power weapon
-vox caster
-regimental standard

Troop:315
10x veterans
-flamer
-forward sentries(camo cloaks)
10x veterans
-flamer
-forward sentries
10x veterans
-flamer
-forward sentries

Fast attack:390
1x vendetta
-3x twin linked lascannons
1x vendetta
-3x twin linked lascannons
1x vendetta
-3x twin linked lascannons

Heavy support:500
2x executioner----------------------------->3+ cover save from aegis defence line and camo cloaks. one suad so they will have to kill other to get victory points in big guns never tire.
-sponsored plasma cannons----------------------------->10 plasma cannon shots per turn.
-camo cloaks
-executioner plasma cannons
-extra armour

Fortifications:100
aegis defence line
-quad gun

My first thought was that 30 guardsmen is not nearly enough at 1500 points. Then, I thought that the veterans would be going into the vendettas and thus would be a little safe, but then I read that you plan to put them behind the aegis line. I'm not sure how you plan to take objectives with 30 T3 guys. Since the command squads can't hold objectives you'd have to keep at least one squad of guys on the home objective and then hope that 2 units of guardsmen can get your opponents objectives.

As hinted above, I don't think you have nearly enough troops.
If you want to keep most of your current setup. I would suggest that you drop the camo cloaks (those won't help when the enemy deep strikes behind your wall and blasts you from close range), drop the quad gun (you already have 3 vendettas to handle the enemy's flyers, why waste 50 points on 2 autocannons?) and use those points to get a platoon. You can get a bare bones 20 man blob with a PCS to hold your home objective for those points.

Then put the veterans in the vendettas to give them mobility and survivability. If you have leftover points (extra armor on tanks) I would give your veterans more special weapons.
There is no point in taking veterans if you plan to only give them a weapon that doesn't require a high ballistic skill to fire.
Drop the voxes on the command squads. You don't have enough troops to issue orders to, and you need to have a vox in both the issuing unit and the receiving unit to work.
Finally, I'm a little weary of taking such expensive tanks. They have a chance to wreck themselves while shooting and then your opponent only needs two melta guns to knock out 1/3 of your points.

okay i see you're point on the troops bit , with an aegis defence line you get 4 long and 4 short walls and if you space them out you can fit it to go upto 20 inches this means i can safely put 2 objectives behind the line while receiving a 3+ cover save to anything that shoots at me.

but you're point on an army deep striking behind me well its just not possible as there will be no room as in the aegis defence line i have 2 executioners 20men and 2 command groups filled from the back the only they can attack from is the side or front and that's if they don't scatter off from the side.

and with the problem with the tanks even if they only get one round of shooting off on lets say some terminators or marines they will easily be able to make their points back also you're point on meltaguns blowing my tanks up well i have a 3+ cover save also from front Armour 14 as well as anything with a melta gun will not reach the tanks in time as i would of focused 10 plasma cannon shots on that unit until it got eradicated.

DexterAtWarhammerWorld wrote:
okay i see you're point on the troops bit , with an aegis defence line you git 4 long and 4 short walls and if you space them out you can fit it to go upto 20 inches this means i can safely put 2 objectives behind the line while receiving a 3+ cover save to anything that shoots at me.

but you're point on an army deep striking behind me well its just not possible as there will be no room as in the aegis defence line i have 2 executioners 20men and 2 command groups filled from the back the only they can attack from is the side or front and that's if they don't scatter off from the side.

and with the problem with the tanks even if they only get one round of shooting off on lets say some terminators or marines they will easily be able to make their points back also you're point on meltaguns blowing my tanks up well i have a 3+ cover save also from front Armour 14 as well as anything with a melta gun will not reach the tanks in time as i would of focused 10 plasma cannon shots on that unit until it got eradicated.

You can keep the aegis line if your strategy is based around it. I'm just saying you don't need the quad. You have plenty of stuff that takes care of flyers. Those 50 points give you 10 more bodies.

I still think that you're not bringing enough stuff for 1500 points. You have a very small foot print on the table and such a small amount of troops that it would be easy to wipe them all out and remove your ability to hold objectives.

My last thought is why Krieg? You don't really have artillery or other siege models and air support doesn't seem like the Krieg way of fighting.

Death korps of krieg are trench fighters thats the idea with the defence line.

yes they also mainly do artillery but they are mainly trench fighters.

and yes i see you're point with the not enough models but what you are seeing it as is that they are guardsmen with a 5+ save but there not they will most likely go to ground and get a 2+ save terminator style so 30 men with 2+ saves against anything apart from or ordnance.

This list is all over the place. I honestly don't know where to start.

1. All those BS4 troops and HQs without special weapons. Yeah flamers, but why bother? Get some plasma and melta in there.

2. Voxes for rerolling orders on your CCSs, why? The vets need them too for them to work. The CCSs have no weapons themselves and so therefore don't need to reroll orders on themselves.

3. Executioners are nice, but with 2 and 5 turns, you'll just be helping your opponent glance them to death. They're a hefty points cost for something that can't touch AV 14.

I honestly can't see how a guard list with 3 scoring units can work personally. Not to mention the myriad of unused special weapons and heavy weapons slots. I just don't think it's is viable.
It seems like your killing power is all invested in your executioners which could be downed in the 1st turn due to lack of any other important targets. Seriously, what else on the list of things you have deployed is even worth shooting at? The CCS with no weapons? Or the other CCS with no weapons? If you intend to leave the Executioners in the corner behind an ADL, it'll be incredibly easy to just LoS them and ignore their 42" threat range.

Relying on 2+ cover saves is pretty silly. There are plenty of things which ignore cover, and your guardsmen will be prime targets for any flamers. Not to mention you aren't a terminator if you get assaulted.

Reading your other posts, it seems like you've thought about this army by looking at rules and points values, rather than from play testing units. You can't sit in the corner and shoot all day long. Objective games generally require moving out of your deployment zone which leaves the ADL behind. Getting your Vends on in turn two isn't always a bonus, if I bring my fliers on in turn 3, I get to shoot you 1st with them.
Saying you're not open to deep strike is wrong. As I said, you can't have your troops sitting in your deployment zone doing nothing. Not to mention Marbo would be happy to chuck a demo charge at your two squadrened tanks' rear armor.

Vendettas are good, but they can't do everything for you. 9 (maximum) dead models per turn, is not going to rout anything from an objective.
I really think you need to reconsider this list and not ignore everyone's advice because if I saw this in a tournament, I'd pretty much be smiling at a free win.

okay well you're thinking too old style.

i have minimal troops because 5/6 games are objective if i have 3 units of 10 behind an aegis defence line then you can say they are pretty safe but im not totally relying on them because i have 3 vendettas wondering around the board picking off anything that looks nasty along with two executioners. and even if it does glance itself to death it would of made its points back. because i roll 3 dice per tank even though i fire 5 shots you roll each for each gun (specifies in rulebook.) so 6 dice per turn then means i should roll a 1 once per turn then after the one i then have to roll again and if i get a1,2,3 i suffer a hull point so overall it should get wrecked on turn 6 and by then well not much will be left. now im sure you knew these rules i was just specifying to other people watching.


so lets take a battle report i have my army deployed for example Big Guns Never Tire? with hammer and anvil this means i can deploy 48 inches away from then so lets say they deploy a space marine army and they got 3 rhinos? and two storm ravens and some terms? roughly an army list i came up with. his turn one he moves forward then my turn one not much happens i might fire my executioners at the terms but then turn 2 well we assume 3/3 of my flyers come in as i need a 2+ i come in and straight away those rhinos would be gone. hes then by foot got to get all the way over to my deployment to get me off my objectives but then lets say both his storm ravens come in on his turn 2 they would probably only destroyed one vendetta as a stormraven only has one twin-linked lascannons by turn 3 his men of foot would of heavily hit by my 10 plasma cannons.


well maybe that's if its all in my favor but a game very close to that happened in my doubles tournament.

but im going to take you're idea and drop the vets to standard bog men.

thanks

Can i just ask if your basing this around a space marine army with rhinos?
what if the case is its a drop pod army for example, half his stuff comes down in the first turn right in your deployment zone, melta sternguard will chew through your tanks and a dread with flamers will obliterate your guard squads.
Storm ravens can fire four weapons a turn, thats a TL lascannon. multi melta, and Str8 Blood strike missiles...

Im just saying you need to take advice when given to you or dont ask, and you cannot base your army list on one game that went your way.

yeh okay and i just did an example ive taken the criticism but when you say sternguard well that's a hefty points cost unit right there where even if one tank survives the squad then has 5 plasma cannon shots on them and to remember 3+ sover save from multi melta but i do not think a unit will come down in a drop pod and be within a flamer range its to risky for them to scatter off.

and on terms with the storm ravens its 1 tl lasscannon and a multi melta and a blood strike for 250 points where i can get two vendettas for 260 points meaning six tl lascannon shots

DexterAtWarhammerWorld wrote:
okay so this is is my death korps of krieg imperial guard list.
so in the new edition i think everything needs flyers so that's what i have done.
basically i deploy as far back as i can with the aegis defence line almost covering my whole army this means along with my camo cloaks i will be getting 3+ cover saves EVEN MY TANKS.
let my vendettas go up and blow stuff with 9 twin linked lasscannons while my 2 executioners fire 10 plasma cannon shots each turn.
and the troops are there to simply capture objectives while also getting the hand of my cheap and trustworthy command groups
and remember 5/6 of the games our objective games in the rulebook

HQ:195
command group
-commander - power weapon
-vox caster
-regimental standard
-astropath----------------------->plus 1 to reserve rolls so i need 2+ to come on 2ND turn

command group
-commander - power weapon
-vox caster
-regimental standard

Troop:315
10x veterans
-flamer
-forward sentries(camo cloaks)
10x veterans
-flamer
-forward sentries
10x veterans
-flamer
-forward sentries

Fast attack:390
1x vendetta
-3x twin linked lascannons
1x vendetta
-3x twin linked lascannons
1x vendetta
-3x twin linked lascannons

Heavy support:500
2x executioner----------------------------->3+ cover save from aegis defence line and camo cloaks. one suad so they will have to kill other to get victory points in big guns never tire.
-sponsored plasma cannons----------------------------->10 plasma cannon shots per turn.
-camo cloaks
-executioner plasma cannons
-extra armour

Fortifications:100
aegis defence line
-quad gun

first issue is at 1500 points Flamers are useless and having 30 infantry in the open is a death sentance even with their 3+ cover , Drop Extra Armor and Camo cloaks as well as the fortifacations , give the vets Carapace and x2 plasma guns a piece and stick them in your vendettas , Use the Grav Chute insertion Special Rule to Rain from the sky deploying a large conteingent of infantry onto vital objectives Swap out the two plasma Russ's for Standard russ's with foward Lascannon and Melta-cannon Sponsons , ---- Take either x2 Basilisk or x2 Medusa for long range fire support ......... at 1500 points you could be fighting full units of Terminators , they will laugh as they charge into your flamers............ Think High Strength low AP weapons for Guard ...... especssialy in high point games

i would swap the 2 executioner tanks for 2 battle tanks (2 tanks with sponsons 5 turns= hello glance party) aka ull roll 1's ons the gets hot a few times pretty much killing ur own tanks. with that left over 200 points that you now saved, get a platoon, make a blob to hold your own objective and then kit out your vets with better weps and drop forward sentry. meaning they can go forward and mess with objectives. that's just my opinion

its a 2+ cover if i go ground plus reason for executioner instead of standard leman russ is the fact that 5 small shots are better than 1

DexterAtWarhammerWorld wrote:
5 small shots are better than 1

Not when your ONLY killing power is invested in them. Vendettas can't hit everything, they can't deal with hordes and they're extremely easy to avoid (people know their arcs of fire). The most basic problem with the list is that for 500pts, you have 2 scary things on the table. Nothing else until turn 2. They will be focused down, because there is nothing else. The point with the glances is what I was getting at. On average you have one glance per turn. This isn't including all the other enemy shooting which is going to be directed at them.

You also keep mentioning objective games. You will not win any objective games by turtle-ing up in a corner behind a line. You need to take more than one objective to win. With your list, you have 3 units which can take them, who are all squishy and don't put out any fire power.

You simply can't win an objective game with this list, if you are planning on using air cav then go full out, 6 Vendetta's and 6 squads of vets tooled up with plasma will fit into a 1500 point list, you'll be about as popular as a turd in a swimming pool, but, 18 tl las-cannon shots from turn 2 should upset just about everyone, fill out the rest of the points with high strength shooty stuff and psycher battle squads in Chimera's to blow people off objectives/blow stuff up!