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 Melissia wrote:

 sebster wrote:
And yet you don't see the pro-life crowd throwing money at that issue, seeing what science can do to prevent every one of those miscarriages. Which makes it clear that the motivations for the pro-life crowd are not really just about protecting unborn life, doesn't it?

Yes, I'm quite convinced that the "Pro-Life" crowd doesn't actually give a damn about the "unborn children" they're ranting about.

A lot of the ones that do quit caring about them once they become "born children".

Well as we all know, they stop becoming children once they leave the vagina.

 Melissia wrote:
Well as we all know, they stop becoming children once they leave the vagina.

That must be why I'm so childlike.

 Ahtman wrote:

 Melissia wrote:
Well as we all know, they stop becoming children once they leave the vagina.

That must be why I'm so childlike.

YOU SIR, WIN THE INTERNET!

 Luco wrote:
On Topic: No idea about the bias but
http://www.nationalreview.com/campaign-spot/309400/obama-attack-coming-down-road-stericycle

Bain negotiated the Stericyle investment deal in November 1999, nine months after Romney said he left.

This was already addressed in the articles linked and in my previous posts. Bain and Romney have been claiming recently thatn Romney left Bain in February of 1999, before the Stericycle deal and before some of their other shadier-looking deals, linked to looting and shutting down companies.

But their own public statements at the time, and their legal filings with the SEC, completely contradict that date. Back in 1999 Bain announced that Romney was going part time, but was still part of management and would have a large amount of input on running the company. The legal documents they filed with the Securities & Exchange Commission still listed him as the CEO and the majority or whole stockholder. The documents for the Stericycle deal, in particular, listed him as the sole dispositive shareholder.

So either Romney was in charge for a couple of years after Bain and Romney are now claiming, or they filed false documents with the SEC for a couple of years after he left. The latter act is a crime, BTW. One way they're dishonest. The other, they're lawbreakers and dishonest. I tend to think that they didn't actually break the law and file false documents with the SEC; but rather, Romney was in fact in charge of the company for a couple of years longer than they're claiming now, and they're lying about it so as to try to disassociate him from those deals. It seems more plausible to me than them being criminals.

Mother Jones wrote:But the document Romney signed related to the Stericycle deal did identify him as a participant in that particular deal and the person in charge of several Bain entities. (Did Bain and Romney file a document with the SEC that was not accurate?) Moreover, in 1999, Bain and Romney both described his departure from Bain not as a resignation and far from absolute. On February 12, 1999, the Boston Herald reported, "Romney said he will stay on as a part-timer with Bain, providing input on investment and key personnel decisions." And a Bain press release issued on July 19, 1999, noted that Romney was "currently on a part-time leave of absence"—and quoted Romney speaking for Bain Capital. In 2001 and 2002, Romney filed Massachusetts state disclosure forms noting he was the 100 percent owner of Bain Capital NY, Inc.—a Bain outfit that was incorporated in Delaware on April 13, 1999—two months after Romney's supposed retirement from the firm. A May 2001 filing with the SEC identified Romney as "a member of the Management Committee" of two Bain entities. And in 2007, the Washington Post reported that R. Bradford Malt, a Bain lawyer, said Romney took a "leave of absence" when he assumed the Olympics post and retained sole ownership of the firm for two more years.

Ah, didn't see it, sorry.

 Luco wrote:
So... you do not value human life whatsoever? I'm not likely to remain to debate this, but i cannot fathom your position.

Having been the unwanted child... given the choice I'd have picked nonexistance over the steaming pile of that was my 'childhood.' It has also left me emotionally scarred and bitter, and only nominally functional in society.

And yet this is what pro-lifers would have of me? To live a scarred and shattered life, secure in the knowledge that even my parents did not love me and that I 'ruined their lives?'

Screw that.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Peregrine wrote:

 dogma wrote:
Of course they do, the moral commands of a God are no different from any other set of moral commands. The vast majority if the American religious right isn't trying to force you to be Christian, they're just acting politically in a way that is consistent with their own morality.

Moral commands from god are different, because they're not open to debate. If we have a debate on secular ethics we can do research, consider alternatives, etc. On the other hand, if we're dealing with moral commands from god it's just a question of what god said. No matter how much it conflicts with the facts (such as evolution, abortion, etc), the word of god is absolute and not open to negotiation.

And whether or not it's consistent with their morality, it's restricting my freedom.

Your God commanded that I suffer 18 years of hell on earth. I will have no dealings with your God.

Moral commands from a god are eminently questionable to me, but then again, I don't believe in the idea of perfection as anything other than a goal to strive for.

I think you mean "eminently".

We all failed the "Ten Commandments" so why bother

Yeah, I think I do mean that.

 Jihadin wrote:
We all failed the "Ten Commandments" so why bother

Hey, I thought you were switching over to Zeus.

You could also come over to Druidism with me. Repeat after me:

"I bind unto myself today the strong name of the Dagda
By invocation of the same, the three in one, the one in three..."

Druidism eh....since I've read the Iron Druid seris....keep talking to me oh possible grand master Druid. Do we get to mingle with the Wiccans to? Lot of the females in that sect are *ise**al...........

 Vulcan wrote:

 Luco wrote:
So... you do not value human life whatsoever? I'm not likely to remain to debate this, but i cannot fathom your position.

Having been the unwanted child... given the choice I'd have picked nonexistance over the steaming pile of that was my 'childhood.' It has also left me emotionally scarred and bitter, and only nominally functional in society.

And yet this is what pro-lifers would have of me? To live a scarred and shattered life, secure in the knowledge that even my parents did not love me and that I 'ruined their lives?'

Screw that.

All I heard was you trying to throw a pity party for yourself.

I've tried to end my own life on several occasions for various reasons. Know what I did? I stopped thinking 'poor me, poor me', took responsibility for my current situation and generally grew up. Need help? Vent to a friend, vent with writing or art, go see a psych, take charge of it, take meds, do whatever therapy you need to do to get through it and heal.Find a mate that does love you. Don't rest on your laurels and throw pity parties for yourself or you will have a miserable rest of your life too. Everyone goes through gak, some not as bad as what you went through, some have gone through worse. What you do now is what's important. Letting your life be controlled by what was and not taking charge of what is, is the difference between a boy and a man. If you're too weak to do it, get stronger. Crying has its time and place, but if you do nothing else you will never improve. I learned this through a lot of crying, hating my life, and slicing the hell out of my arms, trying to starve myself or beat myself to death. Nothing ever got better when I did it, I felt worse as i was bruised and hungry. Get over the lip, seek help, and get better instead of dwelling on the past.

I won't claim to understand you, but I know the feeling of being worthless. if I manage to overcome it, so can you.

We went from abortion to who is the biggest badass?

This thread is done...

Biggest badass? dang I took it from abortion to opting out of life. There's nothing in the world worth opting oneself out. Its a freaking challenge that one needs to "man up" and gt a new perspective like Luco said

 Jihadin wrote:
Druidism eh....since I've read the Iron Druid seris....keep talking to me oh possible grand master Druid. Do we get to mingle with the Wiccans to? Lot of the females in that sect are *ise**al...........

No master here. Yes, we tend to hang out with Wiccans pretty often. I haven't read those books, though I'd guess they're probably a bit more adventurous than real life.

They're freaking halirous Manny. Look them up on Amazon. It would be literally "us" as we go through life as a druid that survive up to now from Roman time....did I mention there's vampires and werewolves? Elementals....Norse God....Thor haters...even Jesus was in the book dealing with a extreme grp of rabbi terrorist while in a bar having beer with Atticus...mention Atticus totaly nails out Hel? (female God of the Underworld)

Did you read Gaiman's American Gods? Or any of the Sandman comics?

You mention those before Manny. I'm on amazon now and was going to copy paste a excerpt of the Druid. Since you gave me those two books let me look it up

edit
Both ordered. Wife approved with a quickness. She read those

Nice. My recommendation for Druidic badassery is Bernard Cornwell's take on the Arthurian mythos, starting with The Winter King. His version of Merlin is amazing.

Added on my wish list for a future order. Like the reviews

 Seaward wrote:

None of which changes the fact that the majority of the country considers itself pro-life rather than pro-choice, and that the balance has been tipping in pro-life's favor for quite a while.

But the vast majority of Americans believe abortion should be legal under certain circumstances.

Pro-choice and pro-life relate not only to the question of abortion's legality, but to its moral acceptability. In essence, people often identify as pro-life or pro-choice because of their convictions regarding personal behavior, rather than what the law should allow.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Luco wrote:
an adult doesn't need to be taken care of and can fend for itself in a natural world.

The autistic "kid" (he was in his early 30's) that lived down the street from me growing up disagrees.

 Luco wrote:

the developement of the human brain isn't necessary for life, unless you're admitting that someone with severe retardation or suffered brain damage in the womb, but is out of it, isn't a person.

Its not an awful argument, personhood relates to personality. If you can't form a personality, then you aren't a person.

Have to admit. He made a good investment.

 Luco wrote:

 Vulcan wrote:

 Luco wrote:
So... you do not value human life whatsoever? I'm not likely to remain to debate this, but i cannot fathom your position.

Having been the unwanted child... given the choice I'd have picked nonexistance over the steaming pile of that was my 'childhood.' It has also left me emotionally scarred and bitter, and only nominally functional in society.

And yet this is what pro-lifers would have of me? To live a scarred and shattered life, secure in the knowledge that even my parents did not love me and that I 'ruined their lives?'

Screw that.

All I heard was you trying to throw a pity party for yourself.

I've tried to end my own life on several occasions for various reasons. Know what I did? I stopped thinking 'poor me, poor me', took responsibility for my current situation and generally grew up. Need help? Vent to a friend, vent with writing or art, go see a psych, take charge of it, take meds, do whatever therapy you need to do to get through it and heal.Find a mate that does love you. Don't rest on your laurels and throw pity parties for yourself or you will have a miserable rest of your life too. Everyone goes through gak, some not as bad as what you went through, some have gone through worse. What you do now is what's important. Letting your life be controlled by what was and not taking charge of what is, is the difference between a boy and a man. If you're too weak to do it, get stronger. Crying has its time and place, but if you do nothing else you will never improve. I learned this through a lot of crying, hating my life, and slicing the hell out of my arms, trying to starve myself or beat myself to death. Nothing ever got better when I did it, I felt worse as i was bruised and hungry. Get over the lip, seek help, and get better instead of dwelling on the past.

I won't claim to understand you, but I know the feeling of being worthless. if I manage to overcome it, so can you.

Thank you for your advice. Unfortunately I did all that decades ago and so I don't need your armchair psychiatry anymore.

That doesn't mean I'd wish to go through it again, nor does it mean I'd wish it on ANY other person. Much less some other child totally incapable of understanding why their parents hate them so.