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Okay so here is the question as it came up in a game.

If I use Astral Aim I am allowed to shoot without needing LOS, and thus giving my target a 4+ cover save that can not be changed.

What if I can see the target and they have a better save, such as shrouded in a ruin. Would they then get the 2+ cover? So would it be beneficial for me to actually block my own LOS to lower the save. It seems to counter logic.

im guessing yes it would be better for you in that instance to LOS block yourself

A unit always uses the best save avaliable.


Lets say i'm shooting at a unit of Eldar Pathfinders in a Ruin.

I pass my Astral Aim test.

I hit and wound with some shots, so now its save time.

Astral Aim gives them a 4+ cover save that cannot be improved by any means.

A ruin gives a 4+ cover save, the Pathfinders also have Stealth and Shrouding which make the 4+ a 2+.


So the Pathfinders have two cover saves avaliable. A 4+ and a 2+.

The rules require you to use the best save avaliable. So the Pathfinders must use the 2+

I agree with Grey's reading. It just says that the enemy has a cover save of 4+, which means it is not in any way overriding existing cover saves. (although it would be logical if it did, as it seems to sort of go around walls and stuff.) And as such you get the best save.

That said, you mentioned that you should block yourself to try and get the 4+. This is inaccurate. Once you've activated the Astral Aim, it doesn't matter if you rethink it and aim your guns at a unit 2 inches in front of you, standing on the green of a golf course with no smell of cover anywhere. He still gets the 4+ save. It's for ALL attacks done with Astral Aim. Not just attacks at people you can't see.

In other words, the only real use for Astral Aim is to shoot something like a Vehicle that you can't see, or to use it to shoot some guys behind a wall that completely obscures your LoS.

Otherwise, you are giving someone a really nice cover save for practically free.

Yep, pretty much. It's also 'mildly' useful for stuff that is benefiting from either stealth or shrouded as a result of nightfighting that also happens to be in cover.

I'm of the opinion that it 'sounds' more useful and interesting than it typically turns out to be in practice. The only real fun i've had using it is with Incinerators, though i suppose an Inquisitor with the 'Perfect Timing' psychic power would work just as well.

Its just going to be a rare time that a target is both out of LoS and can get hit by a flamer template

 Neorealist wrote:
I'm of the opinion that it 'sounds' more useful and interesting than it typically turns out to be in practice.

I actually found it to be the opposite. When i first read the skill I thought it was useless, because of the 4+ save, but once I used it, I found it dominating.
I've been playing against jump packs jumping from cover to cover to get to my objectives which I held with a unit of grey knights. They got all the way up to my grey knights and decimated them in the end only challenged by a single overwatch fire.
Then I had a battle that was very much like the first but with a unit of purgators holding the objective using the grand strategy. my friend learned after his first round in their range that he might aswell just run in a straight line towards them, because the scuttling about allowed for more rounds of 16 shots with rending to be poured at him no matter where he hid. He never got to the objective.

If in a unit you see, lets say 3 out of 10 models, and these 3 models get a very good cover save ie 2+, you can choose to Astral Aim and hit the models out of LOS by hitting the models with only a 4+ cover save.

the rules say it's an unmodifiable cover save. therefore if you're wounded by a psycannon or stom bolter shot from a purgation squad using astral aim then the ONLY cover save you can use is a 4+
Shrouding, Stealth, Camo Cloaks, nothing can change that.

 Corennus wrote:
the rules say it's an unmodifiable cover save. therefore if you're wounded by a psycannon or stom bolter shot from a purgation squad using astral aim then the ONLY cover save you can use is a 4+
Shrouding, Stealth, Camo Cloaks, nothing can change that.

Not true. You can have several of the same type of save, and you always choose the best one. Look at SoB. They all have a 6+ invuln save, and some have a second, better invuln save aswell.
If the cover the enemy is in is better than the 4+, they will take that cover save instead.
PS: I don't believe that this is intended, but that is how the RAW reads.

against astral aim a unit which could normally take a 2+ cover save has to use a 4+ cover save. that's the rules. Codex always overrides rulebook


Automatically Appended Next Post:
now if you have power armour on then the cover save wouldn't apply cause you'd use that. but a unit that has flak or carapace armour against psycannons would have to use an unmodifiable 4+ cover save

 Corennus wrote:
against astral aim a unit which could normally take a 2+ cover save has to use a 4+ cover save. that's the rules. Codex always overrides rulebook

I thought the Astral Aim gave the enemy a 4+ cover save, and didn't say anything about removing their others or that they have to use that one. I should go re-read that to double check, but I could have sworn that the other guy/gal is right, not you. Sorry

 motyak wrote:

 Corennus wrote:
against astral aim a unit which could normally take a 2+ cover save has to use a 4+ cover save. that's the rules. Codex always overrides rulebook

I thought the Astral Aim gave the enemy a 4+ cover save, and didn't say anything about removing their others or that they have to use that one. I should go re-read that to double check, but I could have sworn that the other guy/gal is right, not you. Sorry

That is correct. Astral Aim doesn't remove any saves of any kind. If they have a 3+ or 2+ cover normally they will take that one.