Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

But 50USD for a book made in china that will fall apart more messily due to the hardback? I saw the need to improve the binding on my SM codex, and I paid 7bucks at Kinko's to spiral bind and put a blue back and clear front cover, so yeah, maybe my ultimate cost for it was 40buckjs, but it has lasted me all this time since, and with a lot of work done with it. The image says "CRAAAAAACK" pages fall to the floor, now I have to go and rebind it, so nearly 60bucks for the codex.......That is one of my issues with a hardbound, unless it is made of sterner stuff

nothing wrong with them

 shasolenzabi wrote:
But 50USD for a book made in china that will fall apart more messily due to the hardback? I saw the need to improve the binding on my SM codex, and I paid 7bucks at Kinko's to spiral bind and put a blue back and clear front cover, so yeah, maybe my ultimate cost for it was 40buckjs, but it has lasted me all this time since, and with a lot of work done with it. The image says "CRAAAAAACK" pages fall to the floor, now I have to go and rebind it, so nearly 60bucks for the codex.......That is one of my issues with a hardbound, unless it is made of sterner stuff

They have been doing hard cover for a while in Fantasy, and I have to honestly say that I have not heard any reports of crappy binding and army books falling apart.

so...is the codex as good as their old one (the great 3.5 ed one)

 Swara wrote:

 Crimson wrote:
I wonder whether there will be a cultist HQ to allow pure cultist armies without any Space Marines.

Wouldn't that just be IG?

No. I was mainly thinking an allied force of cultists and daemons. I'm sure cultists alone would just suck.

I've come to grips with the supposed point value of the Plague Marines, but I really need to see the army list entry before I jump ship. I need to know if they still have FnP, what their weapon options are, and specifically what it will take to make them troops. As it stands now ALL of my troops are PMs. It looks like oblits are still viable as a heavy choice.
What happened to Khorne and Tzeentch being opposed to each other?

 Crimson wrote:
I wonder whether there will be a cultist HQ to allow pure cultist armies without any Space Marines.

If the new white dwarf is anything to go by then the cultist hq is the dark apostle

Raptors will be a bits buy. It'll give me some lightning claws nd plenty of bits for chosen that jump packs will be sold back to Warstore or Bits Barn the lightning emblems are a shave job. Illbuy the plastic champion because I want to see this trend continue. I don't care how powerfully the dinosaurs are no money goes to them. At the end of the day that's the language G.W. $£¥..... they feel it when you don't buy their product. I'm just wondering what veteran. G.W. employees signed off on the dinosaurs. So this went before. J.Goodwin and. He said good idea?

 Bloodhorror wrote:
I'd imagine a Vechicle Upgrade frame again, for Soul Fire Gargoyles and Destroyer Blades and gak like that.

Good point, GW may well have a new Chaos vehicle upgrade sprue in the works - the old one is rather out of date, especially for the new codex options.

 Clang wrote:

 Bloodhorror wrote:
I'd imagine a Vechicle Upgrade frame again, for Soul Fire Gargoyles and Destroyer Blades and gak like that.

Good point, GW may well have a new Chaos vehicle upgrade sprue in the works - the old one is rather out of date, especially for the new codex options.

I'd say that both items already exist on the vehicle upgrade sprue. Little Gargoyle Heads, and those semi-dozerblades made of spikes.

 Sharkvictim wrote:
I've come to grips with the supposed point value of the Plague Marines, but I really need to see the army list entry before I jump ship. I need to know if they still have FnP, what their weapon options are, and specifically what it will take to make them troops. As it stands now ALL of my troops are PMs. It looks like oblits are still viable as a heavy choice.
What happened to Khorne and Tzeentch being opposed to each other?

It as always Slaneesh that Khorne opposed. Sure sorcerers are despised by Khorne, but he hates all sorceres be they Nurgle, Slaneesh, Tzeentch, non chaos exc. What it really comes down to is Slaneesh followers tend to care more about their hedonism than mastering their martial abilities, and Khorne can't stand that.

Don't worry about a PM army. GW trends from previous codexes that GW seems to be reverting to indicate a Nurgle HQ would turn PM into troops. It's also really doubtful they would mess with the FNP of PM. The slaneesh FNP is for an icon going on already marked troops. Nurgle didn't get the FNP icon because PM already have FNP, so why would PM need it? Sure havoks and nurgle bikers could use it, but maybe GW didn't want T6 FNP bikers.

 schadenfreude wrote:

 Sharkvictim wrote:
I've come to grips with the supposed point value of the Plague Marines, but I really need to see the army list entry before I jump ship. I need to know if they still have FnP, what their weapon options are, and specifically what it will take to make them troops. As it stands now ALL of my troops are PMs. It looks like oblits are still viable as a heavy choice.
What happened to Khorne and Tzeentch being opposed to each other?

It as always Slaneesh that Khorne opposed. Sure sorcerers are despised by Khorne, but he hates all sorceres be they Nurgle, Slaneesh, Tzeentch, non chaos exc. What it really comes down to is Slaneesh followers tend to care more about their hedonism than mastering their martial abilities, and Khorne can't stand that.

Don't worry about a PM army. GW trends from previous codexes that GW seems to be reverting to indicate a Nurgle HQ would turn PM into troops. It's also really doubtful they would mess with the FNP of PM. The slaneesh FNP is for an icon going on already marked troops. Nurgle didn't get the FNP icon because PM already have FNP, so why would PM need it? Sure havoks and nurgle bikers could use it, but maybe GW didn't want T6 FNP bikers.

khorne's just jealous of their boobs

Irdiumstern wrote:

 Clang wrote:

 Bloodhorror wrote:
I'd imagine a Vechicle Upgrade frame again, for Soul Fire Gargoyles and Destroyer Blades and gak like that.

Good point, GW may well have a new Chaos vehicle upgrade sprue in the works - the old one is rather out of date, especially for the new codex options.

I'd say that both items already exist on the vehicle upgrade sprue. Little Gargoyle Heads, and those semi-dozerblades made of spikes.

You may be right. Just redoing the vehicle upgrade sprue would have been an easy way for GW to create 'new' chaos vehicle kits, but I'm probably too optimiistic...

 Sharkvictim wrote:
I've come to grips with the supposed point value of the Plague Marines, but I really need to see the army list entry before I jump ship. I need to know if they still have FnP, what their weapon options are, and specifically what it will take to make them troops. As it stands now ALL of my troops are PMs. It looks like oblits are still viable as a heavy choice.
What happened to Khorne and Tzeentch being opposed to each other?

After reading through the new "This Month in the Design Studio" in the new White Dwarf, Phil Kelly stated that original Traitor Legion builds are possible in the new codex. They will be 24 points per model, have FNP and you need a lord with Mark of Nurgle to unlock them as troops. Anything posted to the contrary of this is people misinterpreting the Icon that gives FNP somehow negating FNP rules for plagumarines, as if it is not possible for 2 units in a codex to have access to a special rule. There is nothing in the current rumors indicating plaguemarines will change.

It used to be Khorne opposed to Tzeentch and Slaanesh opposed to Nurgle back in the Realm of Chaos days.

I don't like the fact that they changed it round, just doesn't feel right.

I'm not terribly familiar with how Chaos has been in previous editions. What is a difference between, say, a Plague Marine and a normal Chaos Marine with a Mark of Nurgle anyway?

 GiraffeX wrote:
It used to be Khorne opposed to Tzeentch and Slaanesh opposed to Nurgle back in the Realm of Chaos days.

I don't like the fact that they changed it round, just doesn't feel right.

At least its back in some form. The idea that all the gods got along and had a rootin tootin hoedown on the weekends like the last codex presented was by far worse.

sorry but your wrong, it was always Khorne v Slaanesh (slaves to darkness) and Nurgle v Tzeentch (lost and the damned)....I owned both

I know I'm gonna get flamed for this, and called a hater or suchlike. And I know plenty of other people have expressed disappointment over this release, but I just have to say that this is the first time I've ever felt so let down by a GW miniatures release for one of my favourite armies. I collect Necrons, Blood Angels, Chaos, Eldar and Dark Eldar. I came on board during 3rd edition, and was absent for a lot of 4th (due to lack of people to play against). The recent Necron and Dark Eldar miniatures have been mostly excellent and there are still a lot of models from those waves that I want to collect. I wasn't around for 4th edition Chaos release, but when I returned I was impressed by the miniatures but shocked by the codex. This time around, the codex looks ok (but not great) but IMO the miniatures look ridiculous and are mostly pointless additons to the range.. The best ones are the Raptors, but they don't look as good as the old Raptors, so they fail on that count. The CC Oblits and Dark Apostle are terrible cartoonish sculpts (like a lot of recent Finecast sculpts) and the big monsters don't fit the aesthetic at all. The dragon just doesn't fit conceptually, dragons are not what I associate with CSM. And they really do look like childs toys. They're not quite dinoriders or zoids, like some have said, but they're certainly a big step in that direction compared to previous daemon engines. They look silly rather than sinister and they don't fit the model range. For the first time I feel like I'm in a hobby I'm a bit too old for.
Why haven't they resculpted anything except Raptors? Of all the Chaos miniatures that needed a new sculpt, this was not one of them. The one glimmer of greatnes sin this release is dark Vengeance. All the Chaos Minis in that are superb and I will definitely be picking up a set. If only they'd redone the rest of the range with this style in mind.

I can't help but laugh everytime someone bring up OMG color books as justification for a massive price hike, as if anyone is gonna care at all their book it colored 6 months after they bought it

I hate the dragon and would much rather use the FW Chaos Fighters. My biggest issue though is going from $42 for 1k Sons to $38+$21 for 1K Sons. Sixty bucks for one squad?

I honestly don't see myself picking up any thing from this release save for the warp talons and the codex. I already have a huge Nurgle force, and I'm just trying to round out my smaller Slaanesh and Khorne ally armies.

Hopefully in the next wave we see a new Abaddon sculpt, as I really would like to field him.

Denilsta wrote:
sorry but your wrong, it was always Khorne v Slaanesh (slaves to darkness) and Nurgle v Tzeentch (lost and the damned)....I owned both

Denilsta is correct - I too had both books and the rivalries were KvS and NvT.

I'm finding it amusing how people are touting the doom and gloom of the chaos release without knowing anything about it.

Ok, so the new models don't inspire you, so what? I have 2500 points of Emperors Children that I really know nothing about.

I've got 2 preditors - Some interesting upgrades have been mentioned but I have no idea on point costs.

I have a DP - No idea if they are even in the dex or what sort of add on weapons are available.

I have a dread - I know nothing if its even usable or if I have to use it as a hellbrute.

Now there are the 36 noise marines in HTH or shooty configuration. No real idea of how those models will be used or what their real points are going to be.

I've got 6 bikers where in the old 3.5 codex came out to about 50 points each after upgrades. What are the new bikers going to look like, what upgrades can they take?

How can you fully dismiss something when you know nothing about it? Rumors rarely paint the full picture and the White Dwarf stuff doesn't have point costs.

Now, if your going to gripe about cost. Well that's legitimate and I'll not fault anyone for complaining about that. I think everything is about 20% over inflated in cost and truthfully there is no reason for it to be so.

SO...is Doomrider back?

 Jayden63 wrote:
I have a DP - No idea if they are even in the dex or what sort of add on weapons are available.

We know they're in the dex and that marks give them extra special stuff, including hating the opposing god
It's in WD and you need good eyes/good magnifying glass/good scanner to read them.
Likely I'm in the 'good eyes' department, as was everyone else in the store.
We + the GW employees managed to figure out a few rules

evilsponge wrote:
I can't help but laugh everytime someone bring up OMG color books as justification for a massive price hike, as if anyone is gonna care at all their book it colored 6 months after they bought it

But it also has a fold-out reference sheet.

Fold-out I tell you!

We also know that Daemon princes are in because they're listed on the new product releases on the first page of this thread, and in WD.

Seriously, guys, if you're going to complain about the new releases, at least bother to read the information and rumors of the releases in the thread.

Well my helldrake is now a semi functional model, I hope my wife and I can finish it by the time the book comes out.

I wasn't positive towards the fiends, nor dragon, before I saw this video on Faet:
http://natfka.blogspot.se/2012/09/a-very-close-look-at-new-csm-models.html?m=1

Still not sure about the dragon, though it shouldn't ber too hard to replace the head with a cockpit.
But looking at the fiends... Yeah, if Deathguard doesn't live up to my hopes, the I'm shelving 'em and starting Iron Warriors...

//Calle