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Made in us
Tzeentch Aspiring Sorcerer Riding a Disc






Battle Barge Impossible Fortress

New stuff today:

poster pictures from gamesday UK here: http://darogscompany.blogspot.com/2012/09/codex-csm.html

Finecast bitz:
http://astropate.blogspot.com/2012/09/kit-di-modifica-per-gli-space-marine.html

Chaos Boon table (D66 pick 2d6, one is your tens and the other is your ones)
These all have names but I will leave you to find them out yourselves
You have to win a challenge to roll on this table
11-16 - Nothing
21-22 - Replace model with Chaos Spawn
23 - +1 Attack
24 - Eternal Warrior
25 - +1 Strength
26 - +1 BS
31 - +1 Initiative
32 - Return to full wounds, if unwounded gain +1 Wound
33 - +1 Toughness
34 - Shrouded
35 - Armour Save improves by 1
36 - Melee weapon has Fleshbane
41 - Passing a Deny the Witch roll makes enemy Psyker take a Str 6 AP 2 hit
42 - Re-roll failed armour saves
43 - Melee attacks are Poisoned
44 - Crusader
45 - Hammer of Wrath
46 - Icy Aura (enemy models in base contact take a Str 4 AP 5 hit at Initiative Step 1)
51 - Adamantium Will
52 - A ranged weapon has +1 Strength
53 - Hatred (Everything!)
54 - Shred
55 - Melee attacks have instant death
56 - +1 WS
61 - Stubborn
62 - Fleet
63 - Feel No Pain
64 - Roll another d3+1 on this table (re-rolling Spawnhood and Apotheosis)
65-66 - Replace model with Daemon Prince

Warlord Traits
1 - Friendly units within 12" of Warlord have Preferred Enemy (Space Marines)
2 - Melee weapons belonging to the Warlord and his unit have Soulblaze
3 - D3 infantry units may infiltrate (could this be new Creed???)
4 - Warlord and unit have hatred (everything!)
5 - Warlord causes Fear
6 - Warlord may re-roll Chaos Boons

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Thanks to Bramgaunt:

So, I took my time to read those 'scanned' pages from the new dex that are featured in White Dwarf and translated the Psychic powers. Yes, it's actually possible to read those scanned pages. They also have the Profiles and Weapon stats sheets scanned.

So. Here are Pschic Powers and some special rules. (Note that I translate them myself, so names may differ in the actual Codex...)

Armor:
Improvised Armor: 6+ Save
Powerarmor: 3+ Save
Terminator Armor: Same as loyalist
Fleshmetal: 2+ Armor

wargear:

Chaos Bike: SM Bike
Infernal Ammunition: AP3
Mechadrites: +2 A, includes 1 Meltagun and 1 Flamer
Plague Grenades: Mark of Nurgle only - Model carries Offensive and Defensive grenades
Seal of Corruption: 4+ Invulnerable Save
Jetpack

Gifts of Chaos
Aura of Dark Glory: 5+ Invulnerable Save
Gift of Mutation: Ahead of Deployment, roll once on the "Rewards of Chaos" table
Battle-familiar: Model gains 2 additional S4 AP- attacks
Wizard's familiar: Model may reroll failed Psychic tests
Warpblood: Everyime a model with Warpblood suffers an unsaved wound, the unit that caused this wound suffers 1 S3 AP4 hit. (it appears this is not limited to close combat)

Palanquin of Nurgle: Model gains +2 Wounds and +1 Attack and gets the Very bulky special rule
Bloodcrusher of Khorne: Model gains +1 Toughness, +1 Attack and +1 Wound and changes it's unit type to cavallery
Steed of Slaanesh: Model changes it's unit type to cavallery. It runs +3 inces. Gains accurate senses and Outflank special rule and is granted +1 attack
Disk of Tzeentch: Model changes it's unit type to Jetbike and gains +1 Attack

Icons of Chaos
All Icons grant +1 on Combat Resolution
Icon of Revenge: Unit is Fearless
Icon of Flames: Mark of Tzeentch Only: Boltguns, Heavy Boltguns and Bolt Pistols have the Soul Blaze Special Rule
Icon of Rage: Furious Charge, Unit may reroll Charge Distance
Icon of Despair: Mark of Nurgle only: Unit causes Fear
Icon of Ecess: Mark of Slaanesh Only: Unit gains Feel no Pain

Marks of Chaos
Mark of Khorne: Berserker, Counter-attack
Mark of Nurgle: +1 Toughness
Mark of Tzeentch: Invulnerable Saves improved by 1
Mark of Slaanesh: +1 Initiative.

Mark of Nurgle, Mark of Tzeentch, Mark of Slaanesh: If they are given to a psyker, he must chose at least 1 psychic power of the appendant dicipline.

Demonprince Upgrades
Demon of Khorne: Hatred (Demons of Slaanesh), Furious Charge
Demon of Slaanesh: Hatred (Demons of Khorne), Rending, Fleet of Foot, runs +3 inches
Demon of Nurgle: Hatred (Demons of Tzeentch), Slow and Purposefull, Shrouded
Demon of Tzeentch: Hatred (Demons of Nurgle), May Reroll all saves of 1

Psyker: May chose psyonic powers from pyromancy, biomancy or telepathy. If he's a demon of Nurgle, Slaanesh or Tzeentch he must chose at least 1 psycic power from the appendant dicipline.


Vehicle Upgrades:
Destroyer-Blades: Causes D6 S5 AP - hits while performing a Tank shock. If a Unit choses Death or Glory it suffers 2D6 hits instead
Warpflames: All ranged weapons have the Soul Blaze special rule
Whipping Tentacles: Every model suffers -1 attack for each whipping tentacle it has base contact to. (very strange wording here...)
Twin linked Boltgun: Duh.
Siege shield: Vehicle automatically passes dangerous terrain tests
Demon Engine: BS 3. Ignores Crew stunned and Crew shaken on rolls of 2+. When a unit embarks, roll a D6. On a roll of 1 you remove 1 random model as a casulty, and the vehicle regains 1 Hullpoint.
Magma-cutters. If a Maulerfiend with Magmacutters hits with at least one of it's attacks, it generates 1 extra attack. If it hits with all of it's attacks, it generates 2 additional attacks. These attacks have Initiative 1, S8, AP1 and armorbane.
Sonic Blaster: Enemy units within 6" may not perform defensive fire.



Special Rules
Obliterator Weapons: Kyborgs may chose one of the following weapons: Assault Canon, Heavy Flamer,
lasCannon, Multimelta, Twinlinked Flamer, TL Plasmagun or TL meltagun. All obliterators must chose the same weapon. They may not chose the same weapon twice in a row.
Mutilator Weapons: Pick one of the following at the start of any combat phase the mutilator is in close combat: Pair of: Lightning Claws, Chain Fists, Power Swords, Power Mauls. All Mutilators must pick the same weapon, and may not chose the same weapon two combat steps in a row.

Might of the Soulforge: Once per game, at the beginning of a shooting or close combat phase, a model may unleash the might of the Soulforge to reroll all failed to wound/armor penetration rolls. It suffers a glancing hit at a roll of 1 at the end of the phase.

Master of Machines: A Warpsmith may try to repair a friendly vehicle or curse an enemy vehicle.
repair: Needs to be in b2b or within the vehicle. On a roll of 5+ (4+ with mechadrites) he restores a hullpoint or removes one weapon destroyed/immobilized result.
Curse: Shooting attack: 18" range. If it hits, the enemy vehicles weapons have the 'gets hot' special rule.


Psychic powers

Discipline of Tzeentch
Primary Power: Flames of Tzeentch Witchfire, Focus 1
24", S5, AP-, Blast, Inferno (Inferno: Each unsaved wound causes an aditional D3 S3 AP - Hits)

1-2: Gift of Mutation: Blessing: Focus 1:
Friendly Character within 2" suffers a S4 AP-hit and ma roll on the "Rewards of Chaos" table

3-4: Bolt of Corruption: Beam, Focus1
18", S8, AP1, Detonation (If the target is an enemy vehicle and suffers a "Vehicle explodes" result the radius of the blast is 2d6 inches instead of D6 inches)

5-6: Odem of Chaos Witchfire, Focus 2
Template, S1, AP2, Poison (4+), corrosive. (corrosive: Vehicles hit suffer a glancing hit on a roll of 4+)

Discipline of Nurgle
Primary Power: Rot of Nurgle Witchfire, Focus 1
6", Assault D6+1, Poison (4+), S2 AP 5. No effect on models of Nurgle (yes, model of Nurgle is the actual wording.)

1-2: Weapon Virus: Curse, Fokus 1
Range 24". All ranged weapons in the enemy unit have the "gets hot" special rule

3-4: Plagued Present Curse, Fokus 1
Range 48". Enemy unit rolls a D3:
1: Corpsefliesinfestation: -1 attack, shrouded
2: muscular atrophy: -1 Strength, may not run
3: Liquifying Fever: -1 Strength and -1 toughness

5-6: Plagued Wind Fokus 2, Witchfier
12", S1, AP2, Assault 1, Blast (5"), Poison (4+)


Discipline of Slaanesh

Primary Power: Overload Witchfire, warp charge 1
24" S4 AP4 Assault 4, concussive, Blind, Pinning

1-2: hysterical frenzy Blessing, Warp Charge 1
Pick non-vehicle unit within 12" and roll a D3
1: +1 Initiative
2: +1 Strength
3: +1 Attack

3-4: Symphony of Pain Curse, Warp Charge 1
1 Enemy unit within 24 inches gets -1 BS and -1 WS. All ranged weapons directed at this unit get +1 Strength.

5-6: extatic wince Witchfire, warp charge 2
24": S: special, AP - Assault 1.
Every nonvehicle model in the enemy unit suffers 1 hit with its own strength.


Phew. That's about it.


+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++=



Dark Apostle, sorcerer, aspiring champion (new finecast): 15,50€
Warpsmith: 23€
Codex: 39€
Raptors/warp talons: 26€ (same as sanguinary guard)
Heldrake: 59€
Forgefiend/clawfiend: 52€
Mutilators: 41€ (3 finecast)

Obliterators and everything else thats metal goes finecast, that includes Death Guard and Thousand Sons.
the Codex cover artwork is the one that was already used by the BL "Blood Gorgons" Novel.

There are only 4 psychic powers per God, sadly.
If you upgrade your Demon prince to a specific god he gains hatred for the opposed chaos god

A posessed vehicle ignores stinned an shaken on 2+, but if a unit embarks you have to roll a D6 : on a roll of 1 you lose a random member if the squad and the vehicle regains 1hp
Obliterators can morph assault cannons

 pretre wrote:
Clearer pics from some guy's picasa:












 aka_mythos wrote:
Also from Warseer's BramGaunt...
Sorcerer:
Chosen with fiend:
Detailed Helldrake:
Better Warp Talon Pic:
Dakka Fiend:
Closecombat oblits:

Thanks Brother SRM for big pics:

 Brother SRM wrote:
Who wants bigger pictures?























NEW STUFF, Sept 17 2012 from Faeit212: http://natfka.blogspot.com/2012/09/chaos-space-marine-codex-date-confirmed.html?showComment=1347919293500#c3092861766877405799

We have the first confirmation that the Chaos Marine codex is indeed going to go live for pre-orders on September 22nd. The source is from a very reliable source I have been staying in contact with, and the date is confirmed. I am sure we are bound to get details, as more unfolds.......


This puts our first 6th edition codex right around the corner. This is going to be an exciting couple weeks.

via anonymous source
I can confirm that pre-orders start on Sept 22nd giving us a 2 week preorder time frame for an Oct 6th release.


NatfkaSeptember 17, 2012 4:55 PM
I just want to clarify, that this is as official as it gets, just shy of GW announcing it.






+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
via the Faeit 212 inbox
Thousand Sounds full squad is 20 Marines or 10 for half. 150 points gets you 4 sons and a Sorcerer. add more sons for 23 each. Sorcerer can take the boon of mutation ability (the one that gives him an extra roll on the chart at the beginning) for 10 points. he can also have meltabombs for 5 points, and you can buy an icon of flame for 15

230 Arhiman
240 for squad
although a level 3 sorcer is only 140, with mark of tzeentch he is 155

Raptors are 95 for 5, and 17 points for up to 10 more
same upgrades as before

WARP TALONS, are the new raptor. They are 160 for 5 and 30 each for up to 5 more. They all have twin lightning claws. and they have an attack on the turn they deep strike.
its not an assault on arrival. its an attack that makes everyone within 6" of the unit blinded. so if you thread the needle, they won't be shot up

Defiler is 195 now, with all the normal options.
demonforge, the ability you're thinking of, is a once per game re-roll to damage

Forgefiends are 175, they have TWO Hades Autocannons. A Hades Autocannon is 48", Heavy 4, Str 8 AP 4... pinning they are only bs 3, so it's about the same. and once per game it can reroll to-wound and to-pen you can, however, swap those weapons out for Ectoplasm cannons. which are str 8 plasma cannons. and for 200 you get THREE of them. so that's some ap 2 love
3 HP, 12/12/10 armor

Dragon 170, they have 1 hades auto cannon
3 HP, 12/12/10
they can make a melee attack against other fliers
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


This message was edited 32 times. Last update was at 2012/09/28 15:45:17


Plastic Path Gaming: https://www.facebook.com/plasticpathgaming/

Video batrep with my Thousand Sons!: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XhdiGN5_MoM

Semper Fi! 2nd Bn 8th Marines Weapons Co (2003-2008)
 
   
Made in us
Badass "Sister Sin"






Camas, WA

Looks like I have some work to do tomorrow.

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Want to know your rumor monger's history? Check out the Ongoing Rumor Accuracy Tracking thread

"For this thread to have some utility and remain useful, please refrain from spamming it with 'jokes'." - Alpharius
"Irrational negativity is the engine that drives the forums" - BrassScorpion
"It's too early to be crying about this. Maybe next month all your tears will be valid." - Redbeard

200+ Successful Trades on Dakka.
My trade list: http://mindtaker.org/trade.html 
   
Made in us
Tzeentch Aspiring Sorcerer Riding a Disc






Battle Barge Impossible Fortress

It's only work if someone tells you to do it!

Plastic Path Gaming: https://www.facebook.com/plasticpathgaming/

Video batrep with my Thousand Sons!: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XhdiGN5_MoM

Semper Fi! 2nd Bn 8th Marines Weapons Co (2003-2008)
 
   
Made in us
Incubus





Georgia

Forgefiends sound pretty awesome, however I am even more interested in the Dragon as long as it does not look dumb...

   
Made in br
Savage Khorne Berserker Biker







200 points for an AV 12 walker with BS 3? The Dragon also feels a bit overcosted, but there may be upgrades and rules we don't know yet.

Warp Talons are a cool concept, though deep-striking so close to several enemy units to take advantage of that ability is asking for a mishap.

However, this smells a bit fishy. Too many "oh, and it does this extra thing ONCE PER GAME", which are rather weird.

In Boxing matches, you actually get paid to take a dive and make the other guy look good.

In Warhammer 40K, you're expected to pay cash out of your pocket for the privilege of having Marines and IG trample all over your Xenos/Chaos. 
   
Made in us
Tzeentch Aspiring Sorcerer Riding a Disc






Battle Barge Impossible Fortress

Demon Forge or whatever?

I'd take the Fantasy approach to it... Kind of like the way I use a Dispel Scroll to stop enemy spells. Since it's once per game only, if you wait for the "right moment" to pop it, the wizard will:

1. Die.
2. Miscast (and die)

..So I suspect if the Demon Forge rule is true, we will pick the most dangerous target the enemy has and just pop it immediately to ENSURE destruction.

I see it helping out a lot.. Rerolling to wound with 3 plasma cannon type guns? Win against terminators.

Plastic Path Gaming: https://www.facebook.com/plasticpathgaming/

Video batrep with my Thousand Sons!: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XhdiGN5_MoM

Semper Fi! 2nd Bn 8th Marines Weapons Co (2003-2008)
 
   
Made in us
Stone Bonkers Fabricator General






A garden grove on Citadel Station

Is it just me or is the forgefiend basically a worse GK rifleman? That's kind of underwhelming.

ph34r's forgeworld Phobos blog
+From Iron Cometh Strength+ +From Strength Cometh Will+ +From Will Cometh Faith+ +From Faith Cometh Honor+ +From Honor Cometh Iron+
The Polito form is dead, insect. Are you afraid? What is it you fear? The end of your trivial existence?
When the history of my glory is written, your species shall only be a footnote to my magnificence.
 
   
Made in us
Tzeentch Aspiring Sorcerer Riding a Disc






Battle Barge Impossible Fortress

8 Shots at strength 8 BS 4 is underwhelming? If true, I intend on fielding one of those (and one plasma type).

Plastic Path Gaming: https://www.facebook.com/plasticpathgaming/

Video batrep with my Thousand Sons!: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XhdiGN5_MoM

Semper Fi! 2nd Bn 8th Marines Weapons Co (2003-2008)
 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran






 ph34r wrote:
Is it just me or is the forgefiend basically a worse GK rifleman? That's kind of underwhelming.


It has twice as many shots as a rifleman, kinda different take on 'underwhelming'. Plus it will have whatever unnamed vehicle upgrades and whatnot for its army (including seas of spamable cultitst to gum up anyone's army). It might suck in practice, but it doesnt look shabby on paper.
   
Made in us
Napoleonics Obsesser






Sounds totally unremarkable. Unless I'm missing something serious, thousand sons still aren't worth 23 points.

[pessimism]Looks like another five or six years of waiting for CSM not to be boring[/pessimism]


If only ZUN!bar were here... 
   
Made in cn
Judgemental Grey Knight Justicar






 ph34r wrote:
Is it just me or is the forgefiend basically a worse GK rifleman? That's kind of underwhelming.


Umm you need to read it again, Its S8 Heavy 4 and it has 2 of them so 8 shots at BS3 which is better than TL S8 4 shots.
   
Made in nz
Judgemental Grey Knight Justicar





New Zealand

 ph34r wrote:
Is it just me or is the forgefiend basically a worse GK rifleman? That's kind of underwhelming.


How is it worse,it has twice as many shots
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran






 Samus_aran115 wrote:
Sounds totally unremarkable. Unless I'm missing something serious, thousand sons still aren't worth 23 points.

[pessimism]Looks like another five or six years of waiting for CSM not to be boring[/pessimism]


You might be missing the whole codex which will bring context to these units....
   
Made in us
Tzeentch Aspiring Sorcerer Riding a Disc






Battle Barge Impossible Fortress

 Samus_aran115 wrote:
Sounds totally unremarkable. Unless I'm missing something serious, thousand sons still aren't worth 23 points.

[pessimism]Looks like another five or six years of waiting for CSM not to be boring[/pessimism]


Keep your psykers alive and the rubrics will trade in Slow and Purposeful for Relentless.

Changes a LOT, fellas.

Plastic Path Gaming: https://www.facebook.com/plasticpathgaming/

Video batrep with my Thousand Sons!: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XhdiGN5_MoM

Semper Fi! 2nd Bn 8th Marines Weapons Co (2003-2008)
 
   
Made in ca
Infiltrating Broodlord





Oshawa Ontario

tuiman wrote:
 ph34r wrote:
Is it just me or is the forgefiend basically a worse GK rifleman? That's kind of underwhelming.


How is it worse,it has twice as many shots


How is it worse? MATH, that's why.

Roughly same survivability.

GK rifleman, BS4, S8, 4 shots, TL. Average 3.52 hits against non-fliers. 38.35 points per hit
Chaos shooty thing, BS3, S8, 8 shots. Average 4 hits against non-fliers. 50 points per hit

Riflemen do it ~33% more points efficiently, aka, you can take 3 riflemen for the cost of 2 chaos shooty engines.

The chaos one has higher potential damage, and the demon forged rule MIGHT allow it to burst it's damage to a higher level over 2-3 turns (averaged out), but it's strictly inferior on a point for point basis.

Ph34r knows math, do not doubt the man.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/09/13 03:36:45


Looking for Durham Region gamers in Ontario Canada, send me a PM!

See my gallery for Chapterhouse's Tervigon, fully painted.
 
   
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Dakka Veteran






 Carnage43 wrote:
tuiman wrote:
 ph34r wrote:
Is it just me or is the forgefiend basically a worse GK rifleman? That's kind of underwhelming.


How is it worse,it has twice as many shots


How is it worse? MATH, that's why.

Roughly same survivability.

GK rifleman, BS4, S8, 4 shots, TL. Average 3.52 hits against non-fliers. 38.35 points per hit
Chaos shooty thing, BS3, S8, 8 shots. Average 4 hits against non-fliers. 50 points per hit

Riflemen do it ~33% more points efficiently, aka, you can take 3 riflemen for the cost of 2 chaos shooty engines.

The chaos one has higher potential damage, and the demon forged rule MIGHT allow it to burst it's damage to a higher level over 2-3 turns (averaged out), but it's strictly inferior on a point for point basis.

Ph34r knows math, do not doubt the man.


The 8 shot variant in the listed rules clocks in at 175 or ~43 points a hit (200 for the plasma variant), furthermore it might have special rules or great synergy with its book or anything. Declaring it horrid sight unseen based on a rumor is a tad bit early.
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User




 Brometheus wrote:


I am ALL about some Thousand Sons rules. However.. I'm skeptical. Know why? Because Ahriman seems better AND they dropped his points ; ) We will see.

Remember, gentlemen. Let's keep it on topic. Also, feel free to discuss previous rumors. Faeit212 rumor compilation (from multiple sources) is here: http://natfka.blogspot.com/p/chaos-space-marines-compilation.html


Yeah, but Aspiring Sorcs are still essentially base 60. Unless their spells are free or they got a buff, they're still going to cost more than they're worth, especially since they're even more likely to die to PotW now.
   
Made in us
Tzeentch Aspiring Sorcerer Riding a Disc






Battle Barge Impossible Fortress

Unfortunately, I haven't heard anything about perils protection.

I did, however, read a rumor about CSM psykers being able to buy a piece of wargear that let's them re-roll dice up to their mastery level each turn. This new batch of rumors for Tsons doesn't list that piece of wargear, or even if Aspiring Sorcerers have access to it. That would really help. Roll double 6's? Yeah, go ahead and re-roll that one 6.

With the recent trend of psykers, I *suspect* that all sorcerers will not have to purchase spells (ie, Tzeentch or 40k Disciplines).

Speculation, of course.

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A garden grove on Citadel Station

 lazarian wrote:

The 8 shot variant in the listed rules clocks in at 175 or ~43 points a hit (200 for the plasma variant), furthermore it might have special rules or great synergy with its book or anything. Declaring it horrid sight unseen based on a rumor is a tad bit early.
The reroll once per game makes it fairly appealing, but unfortunately aside from that you just end up paying 30% more for the same survivability, and though you average a few more hits it still is 15% more per hit regardless of your defenses. Slightly more eggs-in-one-basket, moderately higher cost per defense, slightly higher cost per offense. For perspective, the effects of a cost difference like that can be seen on other unit comparisons: BA ML devastators that people have been known to field run 130p, while vanilla SM devastators that are almost never fielded cost 150p; a cost difference of 15%.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/09/13 04:08:00


ph34r's forgeworld Phobos blog
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When the history of my glory is written, your species shall only be a footnote to my magnificence.
 
   
Made in us
[DCM]
The World Killer.




The best State-Texas

So the Dragon went from two butcher cannons, to a single Hades Autocannon? Hm.

Guess we'll know better in about a week or so.

I'm rather interested ot see the Melee Oblits. They sound O.K, but I'm hoping they get more than just swapping weapon types in CC.


4000+
6000+ Order. Unity. Obedience.
Thousand Sons 4000+ 
   
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Home Base: Waconia, MN (Minneapolis)

On the Forgefiend maybe it's got the Daemon special rule? That would account for a portion of the point increase. If the defiler is costed that high though it better have improved. It's not worth it's points now.

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Infiltrating Broodlord





Oshawa Ontario

 Hulksmash wrote:
On the Forgefiend maybe it's got the Daemon special rule? That would account for a portion of the point increase. If the defiler is costed that high though it better have improved. It's not worth it's points now.


Yeah, something has to have changed with demon engines survivability if the shooty engine is 175, and the defiler is 195. Extra hull points, 5+ invul, immunity to shake and stun, It will not Die...etc. If they haven't changed for the better, they are looking to be super crumby compared to imperial vehicles.

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Sounds like everything is overpriced. Kind of disappointing coming from Phil "15 point Grey Hunters" Kelly.

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40k Potica Edition - 40k patch with reactions, suppression and all that good stuff. Feedback thread here.

Gangs of Nu Ork - Necromunda / Gorkamorka expansion supporting all faction. Feedback thread here
   
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St. George, UT

 Carnage43 wrote:
tuiman wrote:
 ph34r wrote:
Is it just me or is the forgefiend basically a worse GK rifleman? That's kind of underwhelming.


How is it worse,it has twice as many shots


How is it worse? MATH, that's why.

Roughly same survivability.

GK rifleman, BS4, S8, 4 shots, TL. Average 3.52 hits against non-fliers. 38.35 points per hit
Chaos shooty thing, BS3, S8, 8 shots. Average 4 hits against non-fliers. 50 points per hit

Riflemen do it ~33% more points efficiently, aka, you can take 3 riflemen for the cost of 2 chaos shooty engines.

The chaos one has higher potential damage, and the demon forged rule MIGHT allow it to burst it's damage to a higher level over 2-3 turns (averaged out), but it's strictly inferior on a point for point basis.

Ph34r knows math, do not doubt the man.


And ask anybody that plays against GK and the rifleman spam is just another piece of the GK OTT gak. What sort of calls of cheese would we hear if the shooty chaos thingy was cheaper and more killy than a GK dread.

It sounds like the beast is on target to be useful and a competitive option. There is no reason it has to be a broken list entry.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 lord_blackfang wrote:
Sounds like everything is overpriced. Kind of disappointing coming from Phil "15 point Grey Hunters" Kelly.


Phil doesn't have to make anything undercosted this time around. GW already has their OTT marines that can be their poster children. I'm expecting the Chaos stuff to be pointed competitively much like the DE.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/09/13 05:07:43


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These points costs may not even be final. On the Necron codex points costs changed until people got a real look at it, and some things wildly differed. We also have special rules to take into account.

Honestly, there really hasn't been a codex that had serious points issue, since the Tyranid codex. I think the Chaos codex will do alright.

Also, when was Phil Kelly confirmed for writing it? I don't remember seeing that yet, but I could have easily glossed over it.


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3 Plasma Cannons? If they don't have"Get's Hot!" my heart will sing with joy, otherwise I will explode that thing more often than my opponents will, with my luck with these rolls

I'm very interested in the new vehicles, especially if they can get Marks as suggested in some rumors and how this will affect them if they can get them
   
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Deep in the Woods

 Carnage43 wrote:


How is it worse,it has twice as many shots


How is it worse? MATH, that's why.

MAth Stuff!

Ph34r knows math, do not doubt the man.


Something both of you are not taking into account. If the New Forge Monster thingy is the same basic chassis as a Defiler, that means it is at least 2x larger than a Rifleman dread. So finding it cover will be tougher, packing other units around it will be a pain. Basicly it will just stand around with a big "Shoot Me First!" sign on it. To me that decreases its tabletop value and would get me to spend my HS points elsewere. Im not gona nash my teeth and pull my hair just yet though.

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 GamesWorkshop wrote:
And I would have gotten away with it too, if it weren't for you meddling kids!

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Liverpool

So with the new WD confirmed for 22/23, I am guessing leaks in the next couple of days? I expect this to be my face next week

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 unmercifulconker wrote:
So with the new WD confirmed for 22/23, I am guessing leaks in the next couple of days? I expect this to be my face next week

Typically we've been getting leaks up to a week early, so keep your eyes peeled the 15th and onward.

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I honestly can't believe how terrible the Thousand Sons have turned out for another edition now. I'm sorry, but S&P/R isn't that valuable for the unit when you consider they all have bolters anyway with the new rapid fire rules. They're still horribly overpriced for what they bring to the table even with AP3 bolters.

And what's Icon of Fire? Is that just what gives them soulfire? So that isn't even a free upgrade? Come on... they're crap. And there's probably nothing else in the book with a Tzeentch flare other than the HQ choice.

For shame.
   
 
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