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 Lord Yayula wrote:

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:


Than what is the wording on Grand Strategy, I thought it was any unit in your army? I'll doublecheck the FAQ, but if they intended not to be used on allies than they would have changed it to say Target unit from Codex: GK as they did with most others.

This is funny because it was the same argument regarding Eldar psy powers, everyone on favor was like, but they didn't change it on the eldar FAQ therfore obviously GW was intending for it to work on dark eldar allies, 2 days after the FAQ updates and states what many of us were saying powers and skills only affect your army book not allies. I forsee this happening on the next GK FAQ update if it keeps being a point of debate

Well technically it still works on let's say an archon attached to a squad of (E)Harlequins. So yes it does still affect allies, the only thing the faq did was say you DE =/= Eldar.

Well if you attach your non-GK army IC to a GK unit with GS that would be fine then.

Edit: Oh wait they can't because they don't have battle brothers :\

 Lord Yayula wrote:
Well if you attach your non-GK army IC to a GK unit with GS that would be fine then.

Edit: Oh wait they can't because they don't have battle brothers :\

You have to for the Eldar & DE one, with the GK and Blood Angel one there is no need.
As the allies are part of your army, and nowhere does it state I may not use grand strategy on them.

Ok, I got you a good one here... If i'm taking an allied attachment of chaos daemons does it confers Fearless, Invulnerable save and eternal warrior to all my allied models? After all the rule on the codex says

Daemon: This special rule applies to every model in this army and includes the following special rules:

Fearless
Invulnerable!
Daemonic Assault
Daemonic Rivalry

Now, the Chaos daemon FAQ states on the Q&A if allied units can deploy with damonic assault and just added Codex: Chaos Daemons to it so no i can't, Daemonic Rivalry specifically states daemon unit but it also specifies now that codex: Chaos Daemons bla blah. The FAQ also added the Fear rule:

Add the following army special rule to the Daemonic Forces
page:
“Every model in the Codex: Chaos Daemons army list (including
Chaos Spawn) has the Fear special rule (see the Warhammer
40,000 rulebook).”

now since the didn't specify on the FAQ that the fearless rule only apply to Codex: Chaos Daemons army list I could obviously use it on any ally units it since they are part of the army, same for Invulnerable! Hope you like my Fearless 3+ invul save marines

Yes but they did specify "every model in the Codex" your army, and your codex are two diferent things.

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:
Yes but they did specify "every model in the Codex" your army, and your codex are two diferent things.

Nop, it isn't specified anywhere in the codex nor FAQ for the Daemon, Fearless and Invulnerable! rules. It simply says "every model in the army is X" just like the GK entry it only says "the army"

Only the Daemonic Assault, Fear and Daemonic Rivalry has that "every model in the Codex: Chaos Daemon" which is crystal clear they don't get, however the lack of that restriction on the Fearless and Invulnerable allows me to pass them on to my whole army

I guess you get partial Credit for this. Some things differ though.

Top of PG 27. C: Chaos Daemons "On the following pages are the complete rules for the models in the chaos daemons army."

note that there is a difference between your army, and the chaos daemons army.

I couldn't find the similar rule for C: GK

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:
I guess you get partial Credit for this. Some things differ though.

Top of PG 27. C: Chaos Daemons "On the following pages are the complete rules for the models in the chaos daemons army."

note that there is a difference between your army, and the chaos daemons army.

I couldn't find the similar rule for C: GK

Check the Context of the GK codex.

It makes it clear that your army, is talking about an army from the GK Codex.

Hey DR I just kinda checked it out and I didn't see the same heading as the Daemon one. Toss us a pg number and lets end this debaccle.

P.81 "The following army list enables you to field a Grey Knights Army"

So the following Army list = GK army

later on P.81 under special rules refers to the special rules on P.21 of the codex

P.21 makes it clear that army means GK army as well.

So Grand Strategy only affects models in your "Army" which, in context, means the GK army list.

To the OP.
Can, may or might do not overrule must not or may never.
So the DC can never be scoring even if you cast unyielding anvil on them.

liturgies, according to the GK FAQ, Unyielding Anvil overrides the cannot be scoring.

I actually feel that the line " the Grand Master can assign special battlefield roles to units under his command." is a very telling line.

In an Allies of Convenience alliance, the allies are not in my mind under the command of the Grey Knight Grand Master.

He has not taken command of the troops. They happen to be on the same planet and see it as mutually beneficial to cooperate. They are still under the command of their own HQ.

 liturgies of blood wrote:
To the OP.
Can, may or might do not overrule must not or may never.
So the DC can never be scoring even if you cast unyielding anvil on them.

Regardless of all the other arguments for/against the Unyielding Anvil rule, the DC rule specifically states that "they can never be scoring units". Giving them Unyielding Anvil doesn't change this. It just says that they can now claim objectives. So, in essence, they are non-scoring troops that can claim objectives.

The rest is up for debate.

Happyjew wrote:
liturgies, according to the GK FAQ, Unyielding Anvil overrides the cannot be scoring.

It doesn't say that. It says it can make a non-scoring unit a scoring one as if it were troops, not that it can always make a non-scoring unit scoring. So DC and frenisian wolves cannot be made into scoring units.
Even then always vs never I think always goes to never.

I'm fairly certain, barring certain missions, vehicles can never be scoring units, correct?

Yep and the faq explicitly lists vehicles. DC on the other hand are never in any situation scoring.

I dunno, to me it seems to work, I mean fluff wise the inquisition would just pimp slap any other (at least) imperium army in line.

and I dont know if you can really use "context" for rulings like this, I mean context is fairly easy to change or skew :/

but I definitely see it possible them FAQ'ing it either way so I guess for now just roll off for it/ask the people running the tournament

Fluffwise I don't think the marines would take orders from a GK, i haven't read the new fluff so I can't talk for sure but if they at least left the part that the GKs are kinda secret to any other chapter/IG regiment in order to avoid spreading the knowledge of chaos among civilians then the marines wouldn't take orders from them and even treat them with caution which looking at the allies table is represented by them not being battle brothers with anyone.

After all didn't they kill the whole civ population and IG regiments involved on the 1st Armageddon war?

 Lord Yayula wrote:
Fluffwise I don't think the marines would take orders from a GK, i haven't read the new fluff so I can't talk for sure but if they at least left the part that the GKs are kinda secret to any other chapter/IG regiment in order to avoid spreading the knowledge of chaos among civilians then the marines wouldn't take orders from them and even treat them with caution which looking at the allies table is represented by them not being battle brothers with anyone.

After all didn't they kill the whole civ population and IG regiments involved on the 1st Armageddon war?

Exactly, the GK seem to be the secret police of the 40k universe. What marine chapter wouldn't follow them? Considering if it's chaos they have authority fluffwise eh?
They may not like it buy they would.

As it's written I can see both sides of the arguement, however I believe it works out fine.

Grand Strategy only affects models in your "Army" which, in context, means the GK army list.

So it does not work out fine. (Unless you have rules quotes that over-ride my previous post).

 DeathReaper wrote:
Grand Strategy only affects models in your "Army" which, in context, means the GK army list.

So it does not work out fine. (Unless you have rules quotes that over-ride my previous post).

40k-noob wrote:

 Kevin949 wrote:
Your army is your primary detachment. All references to "your army" in the rulebook reference your primary detachment (such as choosing a warlord).

But...
"If you wish, your army can include one allied detachment
for each primary detachment in your army..."

pg 109 of BRB under Allied Detachment.

So if you choose to have an Allied Detachment, "Your army" includes them as well.

Found this, looks like your army includes an allied detachment if one is taken.

I can't find the FAQ/Errata for Warlords, where's that at?

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:


Exactly, the GK seem to be the secret police of the 40k universe. What marine chapter wouldn't follow them? Considering if it's chaos they have authority fluffwise eh?
They may not like it buy they would.

As it's written I can see both sides of the arguement, however I believe it works out fine.

The difference is that the space marines don't take orders from anyone even the inquisition, inquistors may request the aid of a chapter but they definitively won't just submit to their command, same would happen with GK they might coordinate attacks and everything but being each their own forces and discussing plans as equals not surrendering command to the GKs and not fully trusting them as they would trust any other chapter.

This being only fluffwise of course

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:
Grand Strategy only affects models in your "Army" which, in context, means the GK army list.

So it does not work out fine. (Unless you have rules quotes that over-ride my previous post).

40k-noob wrote:

 Kevin949 wrote:
Your army is your primary detachment. All references to "your army" in the rulebook reference your primary detachment (such as choosing a warlord).

But...
"If you wish, your army can include one allied detachment
for each primary detachment in your army..."

pg 109 of BRB under Allied Detachment.

So if you choose to have an Allied Detachment, "Your army" includes them as well.

Found this, looks like your army includes an allied detachment if one is taken.

Only if you ignore the context of the Grand Strategy rule.

That and individual codexes do not contain rules for allied units. So the GK codex does not contain rules for allied units.

page 109 under the Partial force organization charts heading,
"If your codex contains the primary detachment section of the Force Organization chart,
the allied detachment and fortification sections will not be present,
as individual codexes do not contain rules for allied units or fortifications."

You're right they dont have rules for allied units. So we fall back to the BRB.

You can also gladly read the last lines you so kindly left out.

" If this is the case, it doesn't mean you can't use these elements of the chart, simply refer to the version presented here." pg 109 under your blurb.

Again showing you how to have allies in "your army"

"it doesn't mean you can't use these elements of the chart" it means you are allowed to use the allied detachment. No allowance to use Grand Strategy.

The allied rules are in the BRB, is Grand Strategy in the BRB or do we use the codex to see what it does?

Grand Strategy only affects models in your "Army" which, in context, means the GK army list.

Is there any permission to use Grand Strategy with models outside of the GK army?

 DeathReaper wrote:
Grand Strategy only affects models in your "Army" which, in context, means the GK army list.

While that certainly used to be the case, it seems to be very much debatable now.

If you use Vanilla in your cookie recipe is it still your cookie recipe?

yes it is, if you use allies in your army is it still your army?
Also a yes.

Do I need permission to use Grand Strategy outside of my Army?
Absolutely
Good thing that
Grand Strategy specifies models in your army.

 kirsanth wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:
Grand Strategy only affects models in your "Army" which, in context, means the GK army list.

While that certainly used to be the case, it seems to be very much debatable now.

It is only debatable if the context of the rule is ignored.

It is clear that Grand Strategy is referencing the Grey Knight army list. This is because allies were not around when the codex was written, so it , in context, simply can not refer to anything other that Codex Grey Knights.

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:
if you use allies in your army is it still your army?
yes.

Do I need permission to use Grand Strategy outside of my Army?
Absolutely
Good thing that
Grand Strategy specifies models in your army.

and do not ignore the context of the GK codex, and you will see you can not use it with allied detachments.

GW released FAQs twice since then. Never have they clarified that an army is anything different in 6e than it was in 5e - your entire list.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 DeathReaper wrote:
do not ignore the context of the GK codex

That context is now 6e, which you seem to be deliberately missing.