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I like everything except the oil part. We can buy oil anywhere without issue if we don't make it an issue.

Besides ME oil is running out. In a wee bit of time it won't be a problem.

 ShumaGorath wrote:

 CuddlySquig wrote:
I think during the past 11 years, the reputation of Islam and Muslims in the West has been torn down and left in shambles. That is an important point that should be included in your list.

The reputation before that wasn't great, the "west" is a somewhat homogeneous block of developed christian countries that has never looked favorably on different cultural values. What's changed significantly since 9/11 is the militancy north Americans have towards the Islamic world and the economic and cultural scapegoating the Eurozone has pinned on them. North Africa and the Middle east has been a region composed of totalitarian dictatorships and failed states for decades, they haven't really changed. A lot of the wests increasing cultural xenophobia can be pinned on a sense of decline in relative western power and supremacy of views as compared to the rest of the world.

The reaction from Americans towards Muslims has been rather mild in the wake of 9/11, especially compared to historical examples. We've hardly set up internment camps as we did for Japanese-Americans during World War II, and we've definitely yet to figure out a Trail of Tears for Muslims in America, nor do we seem about to.

 Frazzled wrote:

 Jihadin wrote:
Withdraw all US presence then from Europe and the Middle East.

Agreed

Can't really withdraw from South Korea since technically we're still at war with North Korea.

Sure we can.
1) Announce that we are leaving in 2013.
2) Announce we've sold SK 50 nukes which are already in country.

3) China declares war on us.

 ShumaGorath wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:

 Jihadin wrote:
Withdraw all US presence then from Europe and the Middle East.

Agreed

Can't really withdraw from South Korea since technically we're still at war with North Korea.

Sure we can.
1) Announce that we are leaving in 2013.
2) Announce we've sold SK 50 nukes which are already in country.

3) China declares war on us.

Don't be daft.

 Seaward wrote:

 ShumaGorath wrote:

 CuddlySquig wrote:
I think during the past 11 years, the reputation of Islam and Muslims in the West has been torn down and left in shambles. That is an important point that should be included in your list.

The reputation before that wasn't great, the "west" is a somewhat homogeneous block of developed christian countries that has never looked favorably on different cultural values. What's changed significantly since 9/11 is the militancy north Americans have towards the Islamic world and the economic and cultural scapegoating the Eurozone has pinned on them. North Africa and the Middle east has been a region composed of totalitarian dictatorships and failed states for decades, they haven't really changed. A lot of the wests increasing cultural xenophobia can be pinned on a sense of decline in relative western power and supremacy of views as compared to the rest of the world.

The reaction from Americans towards Muslims has been rather mild in the wake of 9/11, especially compared to historical examples. We've hardly set up internment camps as we did for Japanese-Americans during World War II, and we've definitely yet to figure out a Trail of Tears for Muslims in America, nor do we seem about to.

Yeah, we've handled ourselves better than we could have within our own borders. American history is not particularly clean in regards to racial or religious tolerance. I'd hesitate to say that that our reaction is all that mild though considering we've jailed and released thousands without trial, have indirectly caused the deaths of hundreds of thousands, and still have thousands jailed without proof of any crime through client states like Yemen or Iraq. We've also utilized and condoned torture. The eurozone has set up deportation camps, but that's not really the same thing as an internment camp and there's legal precedent for them.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Frazzled wrote:

 ShumaGorath wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:

 Jihadin wrote:
Withdraw all US presence then from Europe and the Middle East.

Agreed

Can't really withdraw from South Korea since technically we're still at war with North Korea.

Sure we can.
1) Announce that we are leaving in 2013.
2) Announce we've sold SK 50 nukes which are already in country.

3) China declares war on us.

Don't be daft.

You just gave a border country with which they are currently in open territorial hostilities with 50 nuclear weapons. You usually say things that are pretty foolish on here in regards to American foreign policy, but this is like not understanding 1+1=2.

 ShumaGorath wrote:

Yeah, we've handled ourselves better than we could have within our own borders. American history is not particularly clean in regards to racial or religious tolerance. I'd hesitate to say that that our reaction is all that mild though considering we've jailed and released thousands without trial, have indirectly caused the deaths of hundreds of thousands, and still have thousands jailed without proof of any crime through client states like Yemen or Iraq. We've also utilized and condoned torture. The eurozone has set up deportation camps, but that's not really the same thing as an internment camp and there's legal precedent for them.

Lincoln suspended habeus corpus during the Civil War, we've certainly never shirked from torture before - look up the five poor German sailors who had the misfortune to wash up on the beach over here after their U-boat sank - and...well, I could go on. We're not perfect, but we're certainly better than most.

 Seaward wrote:

 ShumaGorath wrote:

Yeah, we've handled ourselves better than we could have within our own borders. American history is not particularly clean in regards to racial or religious tolerance. I'd hesitate to say that that our reaction is all that mild though considering we've jailed and released thousands without trial, have indirectly caused the deaths of hundreds of thousands, and still have thousands jailed without proof of any crime through client states like Yemen or Iraq. We've also utilized and condoned torture. The eurozone has set up deportation camps, but that's not really the same thing as an internment camp and there's legal precedent for them.

Lincoln suspended habeus corpus during the Civil War, we've certainly never shirked from torture before - look up the five poor German sailors who had the misfortune to wash up on the beach over here after their U-boat sank - and...well, I could go on. We're not perfect, but we're certainly better than most.

Keep in mind we did invade two countries and caused the direct and indirect deaths of hundreds of thousands. I think that was a bit out of line as a reaction to Sept11th. I suppose in the context of Vietnam one could say that we're truckin' on like we have been for decades. I'm not that old and I suspect that this stuff is somewhat cyclical. In my life I didn't see much xenophobia or societal angst before 9/11 and post 9/11 it's like every sleight and poke by our enemies had to be payed back 10 times over. The U.S. likely just has periods where it finds that flexing its muscle is the best way to solve crisis until it stops working and we back off from interventionism for a while.

North Korea is their border country not South Korea. Besides if I remember correctly all nukes were removed from South Korea to Japan. 91-95 I believe. So we upgrade South Korea with current US military hardware.

 ShumaGorath wrote:

Keep in mind we did invade two countries and caused the direct and indirect deaths of hundreds of thousands. I think that was a bit out of line as a reaction to Sept11th.

One was, one wasn't.

World War I kicked off because one guy got shot.

You mean he got fragged

Nope, shot.

There was a bomb thrown, but it didn't kill him. Later that day he was shot.

To much and not enough. We're still at war. Terroist still exist and I've still got stand naked in front of a stranger if I want to get on a plane and none of it helps. People are still finding new and creative ways to cause damage.

 Jihadin wrote:
Some idioit country attack Israel and Israel gains half a country. Not a US issue.

Are you referring to the Sinai deployment?

Aye. Its a rotation that picked up by the 82nd for Peacekeeeping once a year.

Just didnt know if your were being hypothetical or historical...you know because of

 Frazzled wrote:

They can't touch us if we are not there.

Do you like driving cars stocked with cheap fuel?

Sinai is the buffer zone between Israel and Egypt. Result from the 6 day war. Its more to protect the Suez Canal then to keep apart two possible belligerents. Israel also restrained against Egypt for military operation being conducted now by Egypt military. Basically they literally have a armored division in there dealing with the extremist thats in there.


edit
I think all fuel should be one grade in the US. To me thats pretty sensible

 Jihadin wrote:

I think all fuel should be one grade in the US. To me thats pretty sensible

Good luck I was in MT this summer and there are like 3 different grades of regular unleaded at 83, 85 and 85.5...here its 87...uniformity would be nice.

 dogma wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:

They can't touch us if we are not there.

Do you like driving cars stocked with cheap fuel?

heck yes, of course that has nothing to do with having troops there.

 Frazzled wrote:

heck yes, of course that has nothing to do with having troops there.

Oh, it very much does. You're talking about a region in which the population assails our embassies.

What do you think would happen if we stopped supporting sympathetic regimes militarily?

We save money?

 Jihadin wrote:
We save money?

The government will.

We could probably save enough money for a couple tanks of gas if we didn't spend so much on parking our military around the globe.

 dogma wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:

heck yes, of course that has nothing to do with having troops there.

Oh, it very much does. You're talking about a region in which the population assails our embassies.

What do you think would happen if we stopped supporting sympathetic regimes militarily?

not a damn thing. They want to sell the oil. they have nothing else in their economies of significance.

 Jihadin wrote:
North Korea is their border country not South Korea. Besides if I remember correctly all nukes were removed from South Korea to Japan. 91-95 I believe. So we upgrade South Korea with current US military hardware.

......South Korea's current military would mop the floor with north korea without help from the US

China might be forced to upgrade NK military Hate to be on that debate in China

A solution to the oil problem...

Buy an electric car.

Heck no. Its my GAWD GIVEN RIGHT to own another muscle car. Thinking a Roadrunner this time around...have to browse a bit..

Squigsquasher wrote:A solution to the oil problem...

Buy an electric car.

You mean like a Volt? Yeah that should work out, /rolls eyes.

Why wouldn't it work out? Whats wrong with le Volts?

Hydrogen fuel cell cars would be even better though.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Well, really, all we need to do is mine the moon for helium 3... Some private companies already have their sights set on moon mining, so that might not be as distantly in the future as most people would think.