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2012/09/15 18:49:22
Subject: Middle income is $200,000 to $250,000 and less?
BOSTON — Mitt Romney is promising to reduce taxes on middle-income Americans.
But how does he define "middle-income"? The Republican presidential nominee defined it Friday as income of $200,000 to $250,000 a year and less.
The definition of "middle income" or the "middle class" is politically charged as Romney and President Barack Obama fight to win over working-class voters. Romney would be among the wealthiest presidents, if elected, and Democrats have repeatedly painted him as out of touch with average people.
Obama also has set his definition for "middle class" as families with income of up to $250,000 a year.
Romney's comments came an interview broadcast Friday on ABC's "Good Morning America."
"No one can say my plan is going to raise taxes on middle-income people, because principle number one is (to) keep the burden down on middle-income taxpayers," Romney told host George Stephanopoulos.
Median household income is, as the article states, right around 50k. Mean is right around 80k. No statistical definition* of "middle income" approaches 200k.
*The only kind of definition that really matters.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/09/15 19:00:12
Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh.
2012/09/15 19:53:29
Subject: Re:Middle income is $200,000 to $250,000 and less?
Median household income is, as the article states, right around 50k. Mean is right around 80k. No statistical definition* of "middle income" approaches 200k.
*The only kind of definition that really matters.
?? I'm confused... could anybody be considered part of the "middle class" if their upper income reaches 250k?
EDIT: oh wait.. it's "middle income"... not "middle class"... there's a difference.
Yeah, you're right.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/09/15 20:03:03
Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!
2012/09/15 20:08:14
Subject: Middle income is $200,000 to $250,000 and less?
d-usa wrote: I am in the top 10% of wage earner based on household income, and I am nowhere near $250,000
Best part:
Romney wrote:
No, middle income is $200,000 to $250,000 and less. So number one, don’t reduce– or excuse me, don’t raise taxes on middle-income people, lower them. Number two, don’t reduce the share of taxes paid by the wealthiest. The top 5% will still pay the same share of taxes they pay today. That’s principle one, principle two. Principle three is create incentives for growth, make it easier for businesses to start and to add jobs. And finally, simplify the code, make it easier for people to pay their taxes than the way they have to now.
For reference, the top 5% of earners in the US begin a little north of 166k. 250k is the top 1.5%.
So, basically, we won't change taxes on the top 5%, but we'll lower taxes on people that are in the top 5%.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2012/09/15 20:47:06
Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh.
2012/09/15 22:42:45
Subject: Middle income is $200,000 to $250,000 and less?
Romney has not explained how he would keep his plan from growing the nation's deficit.
Because it wouldn't.
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
2012/09/15 22:54:16
Subject: Re:Middle income is $200,000 to $250,000 and less?
Proud Member of the Infidels of OIF/OEF
No longer defending the US Military or US Gov't. Just going to ""**feed into your fears**"" with Duffel Blog Did not fight my way up on top the food chain to become a Vegan...
Warning: Stupid Allergy
Once you pull the pin, Mr. Grenade is no longer your friend
DE 6700
Harlequin 2500
RIP Muhammad Ali.
Jihadin, Scorched Earth 791. Leader of the Pork Eating Crusader. Alpha
2012/09/15 23:01:46
Subject: Middle income is $200,000 to $250,000 and less?
Kanluwen wrote: And yet, it does not stop the Republicans from criticizing "Obama's Plan".
Hypocrisy, much?
Everyone keeps saying Romney's plan is bad...
Care to elaborate?
Most of it is not so much bad as much as it is effectively nonexistent.
Romney, and Ryan for that matter, don't really have a plan. They have a political statement that masquerades as a plan, but isn't actually concrete enough to run the government on.
But the stuff that IS there is pretty bad. He'll drop taxes, won't touch medicare or defense, and yet he claims he'll keep it revenue neutral... through MAGIC! Or something. I odn't know, it's his lies, not mine.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/09/15 23:34:40
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
2012/09/15 23:34:55
Subject: Re:Middle income is $200,000 to $250,000 and less?
Proud Member of the Infidels of OIF/OEF
No longer defending the US Military or US Gov't. Just going to ""**feed into your fears**"" with Duffel Blog Did not fight my way up on top the food chain to become a Vegan...
Warning: Stupid Allergy
Once you pull the pin, Mr. Grenade is no longer your friend
DE 6700
Harlequin 2500
RIP Muhammad Ali.
Jihadin, Scorched Earth 791. Leader of the Pork Eating Crusader. Alpha
2012/09/15 23:41:16
Subject: Re:Middle income is $200,000 to $250,000 and less?
Plan for what? Are you going to ask a actual question with an answer? Asking for platitudes and talking points is nice, but if you want a specific answer ask a specific question.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/09/15 23:41:28
----------------
Do you remember that time that thing happened?
This is a bad thread and you should all feel bad
2012/09/15 23:42:26
Subject: Middle income is $200,000 to $250,000 and less?
Kanluwen wrote: And yet, it does not stop the Republicans from criticizing "Obama's Plan".
Hypocrisy, much?
Everyone keeps saying Romney's plan is bad...
Care to elaborate?
Most of it is not so much bad as much as it is effectively nonexistent.
Romney, and Ryan for that matter, don't really have a plan. They have a political statement that masquerades as a plan, but isn't actually concrete enough to run the government on.
But the stuff that IS there is pretty bad. He'll drop taxes, won't touch medicare or defense, and yet he claims he'll keep it revenue neutral... through MAGIC! Or something. I odn't know, it's his lies, not mine.
Fair enough...
I just wish SOMEONE from any political party to perform a true actual assessment of each government function to determine if A) if its needed and B) is it efficient.
That's all... and this needs to be someone in Congress to lead this charge.
Whatever Obama / Romney proposes are just starting framework... once such President's proposal hits the floor, it'll be a shadow of the original plan.
Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!
2012/09/15 23:43:38
Subject: Re:Middle income is $200,000 to $250,000 and less?
Shuma. Step back. Relook at Melissa post and look at mine below her post
Proud Member of the Infidels of OIF/OEF
No longer defending the US Military or US Gov't. Just going to ""**feed into your fears**"" with Duffel Blog Did not fight my way up on top the food chain to become a Vegan...
Warning: Stupid Allergy
Once you pull the pin, Mr. Grenade is no longer your friend
DE 6700
Harlequin 2500
RIP Muhammad Ali.
Jihadin, Scorched Earth 791. Leader of the Pork Eating Crusader. Alpha
2012/09/15 23:45:41
Subject: Middle income is $200,000 to $250,000 and less?
Jihadin wrote: Shuma. Step back. Relook at Melissa post and look at mine below her post
Yeah, you made a flamebait post that had nothing to do with the already vague and useless discussion at hand. It had bad grammar. Are you going to ask a meaningful question?
----------------
Do you remember that time that thing happened?
This is a bad thread and you should all feel bad
2012/09/15 23:49:09
Subject: Middle income is $200,000 to $250,000 and less?
Samus_aran115 wrote: Isn't 200-250K what two Lawyers, or two doctors make collectively? I know a fair number of people like that, and they aren't really 'middle' anything
Uh... depends. Most Doctors / Pharmacists / Lawyer I know probably makes more than that...
But, there's a lot of those professions here in the states, so thats probably true.
Thats why that original statement got me confused... If we were take the standard of living into account... 200k in Southern Cali or in the North East aint' that much.
This is one example of how a poor communicator Romney is... I *think* his plan would like to not raise taxes on small business owners too(they're in that 200k). But what he said there made him look silly.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/09/15 23:51:27
Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!
2012/09/15 23:50:08
Subject: Re:Middle income is $200,000 to $250,000 and less?
Sorry Shuma I'm not your target for the day. Go try someone else
Proud Member of the Infidels of OIF/OEF
No longer defending the US Military or US Gov't. Just going to ""**feed into your fears**"" with Duffel Blog Did not fight my way up on top the food chain to become a Vegan...
Warning: Stupid Allergy
Once you pull the pin, Mr. Grenade is no longer your friend
DE 6700
Harlequin 2500
RIP Muhammad Ali.
Jihadin, Scorched Earth 791. Leader of the Pork Eating Crusader. Alpha
2012/09/15 23:52:40
Subject: Re:Middle income is $200,000 to $250,000 and less?
I'm both selfish and rational. I'm scheming, secretive and manipulative; I use knowledge as a tool for personal gain, and in turn obtaining more knowledge. At best, I am mysterious and stealthy; at worst, I am distrustful and opportunistic.
2012/09/15 23:55:00
Subject: Middle income is $200,000 to $250,000 and less?
Samus_aran115 wrote: Isn't 200-250K what two Lawyers, or two doctors make collectively? I know a fair number of people like that, and they aren't really 'middle' anything
Uh... depends.
Thats why that original statement got me confused... If we were take the standard of living into account... 200k in Southern Cali or in the North East aint' that much.
This is one example of how a poor communicator Romney is... I *think* his plan would like to not raise taxes on small business owners too(they're in that 200k). But what he said there mad him look silly.
Everyone wants to believe they are middle class...But this eagerness...has led the definition to be stretched like a bungee cord — used to defend/attack/describe everything...The Drum Major Institute...places the range for middle class at individuals making between $25,000 and $100,000 a year. Ah yes, there's a group of people bound to run into each other while house-hunting. —Dante Chinni
Romney has likely read briefs on what constitutes median income in America, his educational background wasn't in this kind of statistics and it's unlikely he ran into it much in his work history. I find it sad that a popular government official can believe something like this though. Romneys a smart guy, I'm certain he didn't really think that these numbers were a realistic reflection of American incomes, but I personally believe that those with an income of less than 40 thousand dollars don't register to him as people in America. He's never had to interact with them, even in his private sector experience it's unlikely he dealt with people at that pay grade very often. They likely don't represent the "American people" he has come to know throughout his life.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Jihadin wrote: Sorry Shuma I'm not your target for the day. Go try someone else
Stop painting targets all over your posts and sure, I'll stop pointing out when they're wrong, nonsensical, racist, or flamebait.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2012/09/15 23:57:23
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Do you remember that time that thing happened?
This is a bad thread and you should all feel bad
2012/09/16 00:07:31
Subject: Middle income is $200,000 to $250,000 and less?
Samus_aran115 wrote: Isn't 200-250K what two Lawyers, or two doctors make collectively? I know a fair number of people like that, and they aren't really 'middle' anything
Uh... depends. Most Doctors / Pharmacists / Lawyer I know probably makes more than that...
But, there's a lot of those professions here in the states, so thats probably true.
Thats why that original statement got me confused... If we were take the standard of living into account... 200k in Southern Cali or in the North East aint' that much.
This is one example of how a poor communicator Romney is... I *think* his plan would like to not raise taxes on small business owners too(they're in that 200k). But what he said there made him look silly.
I always kind of assumed that doctors made somewhere around the 130,000 mark, but that might be a bit low. There's lots of money to be made in medicine.
I think his opinion of everything is a bit warped, given his financial standing, and the silver spoon in his mouth that he was born with At least where I live, small businesses are dying out, but for reasons other than taxes. Local property fees, shipping costs, customer traffic and publicity all have a lot to do with why small businesses need these tax breaks in the first place. It's a tough issue to tackle.
If only ZUN!bar were here...
2012/09/16 00:10:06
Subject: Middle income is $200,000 to $250,000 and less?
Samus_aran115 wrote: Isn't 200-250K what two Lawyers, or two doctors make collectively? I know a fair number of people like that, and they aren't really 'middle' anything
Uh... depends.
Thats why that original statement got me confused... If we were take the standard of living into account... 200k in Southern Cali or in the North East aint' that much.
This is one example of how a poor communicator Romney is... I *think* his plan would like to not raise taxes on small business owners too(they're in that 200k). But what he said there mad him look silly.
Everyone wants to believe they are middle class...But this eagerness...has led the definition to be stretched like a bungee cord — used to defend/attack/describe everything...The Drum Major Institute...places the range for middle class at individuals making between $25,000 and $100,000 a year. Ah yes, there's a group of people bound to run into each other while house-hunting.
—Dante Chinni
Romney has likely read briefs on what constitutes median income in America, his educational background wasn't in this kind of statistics and it's unlikely he ran into it much in his work history. I find it sad that a popular government official can believe something like this though. Romneys a smart guy, I'm certain he didn't really think that these numbers were a realistic reflection of American incomes, but I personally believe that those with an income of less than 40 thousand dollars don't register to him as people in America. He's never had to interact with them, even in his private sector experience it's unlikely he dealt with people at that pay grade very often. They likely don't represent the "American people" he has come to know throughout his life.
Your hatred for the guy is stunning...
The Nixon family’s touching story:
After his home was damaged in a wild fire in 2007, Reed Fisher got an unexpected hand:
Bryce Clark discusses his struggle with alcoholism and how Romney helped:
One of my favs...Ken Smith tells the story about Romney helping his charity provide for military veterans:
Samus_aran115 wrote: Isn't 200-250K what two Lawyers, or two doctors make collectively? I know a fair number of people like that, and they aren't really 'middle' anything
Uh... depends. Most Doctors / Pharmacists / Lawyer I know probably makes more than that...
But, there's a lot of those professions here in the states, so thats probably true.
Thats why that original statement got me confused... If we were take the standard of living into account... 200k in Southern Cali or in the North East aint' that much.
This is one example of how a poor communicator Romney is... I *think* his plan would like to not raise taxes on small business owners too(they're in that 200k). But what he said there made him look silly.
I always kind of assumed that doctors made somewhere around the 130,000 mark, but that might be a bit low. There's lots of money to be made in medicine.
I think his opinion of everything is a bit warped, given his financial standing, and the silver spoon in his mouth that he was born with At least where I live, small businesses are dying out, but for reasons other than taxes. Local property fees, shipping costs, customer traffic and publicity all have a lot to do with why small businesses need these tax breaks in the first place. It's a tough issue to tackle.
Fair enough...
If anyone is at school or starting school soon... DON'T go for Doctor in Medicine... go to Pharmacy... money just as good, but not all the BS the Drs are going thru.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/09/16 00:11:59
Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!
2012/09/16 00:12:05
Subject: Middle income is $200,000 to $250,000 and less?
Real people trying to get someone elected for president on Glenn Becks show. If you're running for president and you can't get dozens of people to pretend to have strong ties to you in the most pro "you" show out there than you're not going to be president. The swift boat veterans got on tv too and John Edwards used his cancer wife to play the pity card. This is just pathetic.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2012/09/16 00:15:06
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Do you remember that time that thing happened?
This is a bad thread and you should all feel bad
2012/09/16 00:18:38
Subject: Middle income is $200,000 to $250,000 and less?
Real people trying to get someone elected for president on Glenn Becks show. If you're running for president and you can't get dozens of people to pretend to have strong ties to you in the most pro "you" show out there than you're not going to be president. The swift boat veterans got on tv too and John Edwards used his cancer wife to play the pity card. This is just pathetic.
Okay then... Republicans bad... gotcha.
Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!
2012/09/16 00:18:42
Subject: Middle income is $200,000 to $250,000 and less?
Real people trying to get someone elected for president on Glenn Becks show. If you're running for president and you can't get dozens of people to pretend to have strong ties to you in the most pro "you" show out there than you're not going to be president. The swift boat veterans got on tv too and John Edwards used his cancer wife to play the pity card. This is just pathetic.
If we want to bandy about stupid articles relating to the mans interpersonal relationships heres one that describes him as being kind and generous to close friends and family and a cold hearted machine to everyone else.
So here's a question Whembley, does Mitt Romney know America personally? Or is the vast majority of this countries population outside of the bubble of people "he cares about"? I mean, you clearly want to think of him as secretly warm and loving with understanding and empathy towards the lower classes. Which account is true? Which Mitt Romney is the one that thinks 250 thousand dollars is realistically something Americans make?
Okay then... Republicans bad... gotcha.
Well they do want to cut funding for the egyptian military a year after their strongman fell and they stopped torturing people for us. Republicans don't have a great track record of being good.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2012/09/16 00:24:37
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Do you remember that time that thing happened?
This is a bad thread and you should all feel bad
2012/09/16 00:44:24
Subject: Re:Middle income is $200,000 to $250,000 and less?
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At least where I live, small businesses are dying out, but for reasons other than taxes. Local property fees, shipping costs, customer traffic and publicity all have a lot to do with why small businesses need these tax breaks in the first place. It's a tough issue to tackle.
