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Here's the scenario.

Leman Russ is now a "heavy" classification tank. So it always as if firing stationary.
I fire the standard leman russ battle cannon, which is an ordnance weapon. Okay, that can be done. Now then how are my three heavy bolters going to be fired?

Do they get full ballistic skill when fired with the battle cannon or are they all fired as snap shots?

Any help would be appreciated. Page numbers in the big rule book supporting your case or specific FAQs would be appreciated. THANKS!

Snap shots. Heavy doesn't give you permission to ignore the ordinance restrictions.

All are fired as normal , Heavy States that " It fires as if it didn't move " Congrats the Leman russ just turned into a Bulldozer of Firepower , them making the Russ heavy was to make up for taking out " Lumbering Behemoth " so yes we get to kick ass on full balistic skill--- if you want you can pull the Lumbering Behemoth since the Codex Overides the BRB , which is even better because the lumbering behemoth says " A Leman russ that moved at combat speed or remained Stationary can fire its turret weapon in addition to any other weaposn it is usually allowed to fire ( Even if the Turret weapon is Ordnance !) However , a Leman Russ travelling at Cruise Speed can only move up to D6+6 " - roll every time it moves at this speed " Qoute Page 48 Imperial Guard Codex , this means taht now Heavy Vehicles can't move that extra D6 we stil are allowed to fire the Ordanance in accordance with the " Lumbering Behemoth Special Rule " --- 6th Edition Rule book - Page 83 Heavy Vehicles --- Shooting with Heavy Vehicles subsection -- " For the purposes of determinging which weapons a Heavy Vehicle can fire ( and at what Ballistic skill ), Heavy Vehicles are always treated as having Remained Stationary " That word - for - Word means taht Us Guard CAN fire our Ordanance on the move , Congrats Domolisher tanks with Melta Sponsons are still going to feth you up even more --- Still some of you wil lbe ignorant so ill go on

there is Absolutly NOTHING that States the Leman Russ can't fire its Ordanance , Because both the Codex Special rule And the BRB state that it can , in that Heavy vehicles are counted as remaing stationary , and add that with Lumbeirng Behemoth

Anyone who tells you otherwise is full of gak

 Kasrkin229 wrote:
All are fired as normal , Heavy States that " It fires as if it didn't move " Congrats the Leman russ just turned into a Bulldozer of Firepower , them making the Russ heavy was to make up for taking out " Lumbering Behemoth " so yes we get to kick ass on full balistic skill

But not moving you can still only fire the other weapons as snap shots if you fire ordinance.

 Kasrkin229 wrote:
All are fired as normal , Heavy States that " It fires as if it didn't move " Congrats the Leman russ just turned into a Bulldozer of Firepower , them making the Russ heavy was to make up for taking out " Lumbering Behemoth " so yes we get to kick ass on full balistic skill

This is just wrong. It states that "it fires as if it didn't move" but doesn't remove the restriction on firing ordnance. So no, the Leman Russ has gone from previously being a "bulldozer of firepower" to being an ordnance only tank.

But it is counted as not having Moved , hence restrictions don't matter Because it Technically didn't move . both the BRB and Codex confim this , you'll have to find and FAQ to prove otherwise

But then Again GW is well known for Being Extremely Cryptic in what they write with no real clear meanings

 Kasrkin229 wrote:
But it is counted as not having Moved , hence restrictions don't matter Because it Technically didn't move . both the BRB and Codex confim this , you'll have to find and FAQ to prove otherwise

It doesn't matter if it's moved or not. If a vehicle fires an ordinance weapon, it can only snap-shot the other weapons. The "Heavy" USR doesn't change this.

 Kasrkin229 wrote:

But then Again GW is well known for Being Extremely Cryptic in what they write with no real clear meanings

Not really.

If The Tank sits still and fires all of his main gun ( assuming its Ordanance ) while hes sitting still he dosn't have to Fire snap shots , Hes sitting still , The Heavy USR says the Tank was Stationary which in turn mean you should be able to fire everything at normal ballistic skill .

in Terms of being Cryptic you have to keep in mind British " English " and American " english" are 2 Very Different things

Page 71.

"A vehicle that fires an ordinance weapon can only make Snap Shots with its other weapons that turn."

There's less difference between mainstream British-English and American-English, than there is between mainstream British-English and regional dialects. For example, I could walk down the street and say to you "ey up me duck ahs it goin". That's much less understandable than "Hey buddy" or however Americans say hello

" Unlike other Units , Vehicles can move and fire with ordnance weapons , however , a Vehicle that fires an ordanance weapon can only make snap shots with its other wapons that turn " That is for standard Vehicles , it says nothing about Heavy Ones ......... BTW reading the "ey up me duck ahs it goin " i was thinking more so " Whats up " , or " hows it going " ..... that is how we say it in America really

 Kasrkin229 wrote:
" Unlike other Units , Vehicles can move and fire with ordnance weapons , however , a Vehicle that fires an ordanance weapon can only make snap shots with its other wapons that turn " That is for standard Vehicles , it says nothing about Heavy Ones ......... BTW reading the "ey up me duck ahs it goin " i was thinking more so " Whats up " , or " hows it going " ..... that is how we say it in America really

That's the rule for vehicles. The Leman Russ is a vehicle, just happens to have the heavy rule.
There's nothing that allows the Leman Russ to ignore the penalty for firing Ordnance.
It's great for non-Ordnance Russ, but not a great change for the others.

But the Heavy Rule - States clearly - That all Heavy Vehicles are counted as Remaing Stationary , it can fire all WEapons since Again , it was Technically stationary , therfore the Ordanance rules don't effect it

 Kasrkin229 wrote:
But the Heavy Rule - States clearly - That all Heavy Vehicles are counted as Remaing Stationary , it can fire all WEapons since Again , it was Technically stationary , therfore the Ordanance rules don't effect it

The Ordnance rules don't matter if you move or not. You fired Ordnance, snap shots for everything else. Heavy doesn't change this.

 grendel083 wrote:

 Kasrkin229 wrote:
But the Heavy Rule - States clearly - That all Heavy Vehicles are counted as Remaing Stationary , it can fire all WEapons since Again , it was Technically stationary , therfore the Ordanance rules don't effect it

The Ordnance rules don't matter if you move or not. You fired Ordnance, snap shots for everything else. Heavy doesn't change this.

If my Leman Russ dosn't move Does it still have to snap shot ? no , and you can still get around this by firing secondary weapons first and then firing the ordanance last

it doesn't matter. All the guns fired from the same vehicle are being fired simultaneously.

Ordnance doesn't care whether you're stationary or not, so Heavy doesn't help with it. Ordnance weapons themselves make all your other guns only able to Snap Shot in the turn they're fired, and Heavy doesn't help with that, unfortunately.

 Kasrkin229 wrote:
If my Leman Russ dosn't move Does it still have to snap shot ? no , and you can still get around this by firing secondary weapons first and then firing the ordanance last

You can't get around it, you fire the other weapons first then you'd be unable to shoot the Ordnance (not without breaking the rules).

There's 3 points for Ordnance:
1). Page 51 You Can't move and shoot Ordnance,
2). Page 71 Vehicles can move and shoot Ordnance,
3). page 71 if a vehicle fires Ordnance, it must fire everything else as snaps shots.

With point 3. it doesn't matter if the vehicle moves or not.

However , the Leman Russ " Lumbering Behemoth " special rule would allow the Russ to Fire its Ordanance in addition to its other weapons

 Kasrkin229 wrote:
However , the Leman Russ " Lumbering Behemoth " special rule would allow the Russ to Fire its Ordanance in addition to its other weapons

That rule was replaced in the last FAQ and is no longer valid.
You can't choose to use an older rule just because it benefits you more.

Heavy does nothing if you are firing an ordnance weapon. Fortunately, only two Russ variants (the generic and the Demolisher), have ordnance weapons. The rest become noticeably better.

Leman Russ Exterminator, Vanquisher, Eradicator, Punisher, and Executioner all move and shoot with all weapons, including sponsons (even plasma cannons).

Something i would like to ask you , i do belive that the Blood Angels Furioso ( if i recall it has blood talons ) dread everytime it hits , it gets to roll to hit Yet Again , Slightly OP when it comes to 5 attacks that hit on a 2+ , now why is it that GW replaces rules in Codex's because it makes it to hard for their Space Marine glory boys to win ?

I think what is being missed here is that the Leman Russ no longer has Lumbering Behemoth rule, that was replaced entirely with Heavy. This is what is getting rid of the firing ordnance and other weapons at full BS.

Heavy does not ignore the restrictions on what kind of weapons you are firing, just that you fire as though you were stationary. So the LRBT can move the 6", act as if it was stationary, fire its cannon, which is ordnance, but then must snap fire any other weapons as per the ordnance rules.

 Kasrkin229 wrote:
Something i would like to ask you , i do belive that the Blood Angels Furioso ( if i recall it has blood talons ) dread everytime it hits , it gets to roll to hit Yet Again , Slightly OP when it comes to 5 attacks that hit on a 2+ , now why is it that GW replaces rules in Codex's because it makes it to hard for their Space Marine glory boys to win ?

1. The Furioso has 4A on the charge, 3A otherwise.
2. It only gets to roll another attack if it deals an unsaved WOUND, not a hit.
3. It hits on a 3+ against most things. I think the only model in the game which hits on a 2+ in assault is Kharne the Betrayer, IIRC.
4. GW updates all the codices, and sometimes things get weaker or stronger. Furiosos, for one example, are only AP3 in assault now with Blood Talons, so the blender dread now gets its butt kicked by terminators and meganobs, whereas before it could chew those up.

And all of this makes no difference because as this is a permissive ruleset and you dont have express permission to ignore the ordnance rule, you cant ignore it.

 Mannahnin wrote:

 Kasrkin229 wrote:
Something i would like to ask you , i do belive that the Blood Angels Furioso ( if i recall it has blood talons ) dread everytime it hits , it gets to roll to hit Yet Again , Slightly OP when it comes to 5 attacks that hit on a 2+ , now why is it that GW replaces rules in Codex's because it makes it to hard for their Space Marine glory boys to win ?

1. The Furioso has 4A on the charge, 3A otherwise.
2. It only gets to roll another attack if it deals an unsaved WOUND, not a hit.
3. It hits on a 3+ against most things. I think the only model in the game which hits on a 2+ in assault is Kharne the Betrayer, IIRC.
4. GW updates all the codices, and sometimes things get weaker or stronger. Furiosos, for one example, are only AP3 in assault now with Blood Talons, so the blender dread now gets its butt kicked by terminators and meganobs, whereas before it could chew those up.

I apologize for not having hte Exact Stats im not a Space Marine player , But in terms of AP 3 the odds of it getting an Unsaved wound on 85% of the Armies just seems a little sketchy .And im almost sure that more folks then just the Chaos boy hits on a 2+ such as Col. Stracken in the Imperial Guard ( if i recall ) But something i really don't understand is the Balance of it . But in this( form what i've noticed ) Any Army that is not Space Marines just tends to not to have the most immediate balance ......... But i just be Ragin now . I never understood that the FAQ had eliminated the " Lumbering Behemoth " special rule . To my Understanding the Codex overides the BRB 99% of the time . Over all i generally have a hate for the fluff of the " Wardness" but just some things that i guess don't make since for everyone right ?

Codex overrules Rulebook (only in the event of a conflict)
FAQ's overrules Codex, Rulebook and any other updates.

True Space Marines do tend to get treated more favourably. They're the Poster Boys of 40k. No way I'll trade in my Orks or 'Guard for them though.

I resent that.
My marine chapter hasnt had a kind thing done to it since 4th. Only classic vanilla are the poster boys.


Neither here nor there though. If something seems OP its because it probably is. GW does this alot.

Blood Angels are limp in 6th edition anyway. SW are the only space marine codex that's really top tear, the others (Vanilla, BT, BA) have suffered from codex creep.

Is it sad that I had to google that to find out the definition? Anyway, "Codex Creep" or not, as a SoB player I'll be the first to tell you that any army can be competitive. Everything depends on the way you play and the roll of the dice. If you are bummed b/c you lost lumbering behemoth try a different tactic.