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Came up with this idea recently for a 1500 points Tau list that Might actually stand a chance against, well, anything. Here Goes:

HQ:
Shas'O with Plasma Rifle, Missile Pod, Command and Control Node, Hard Wired Multi Tracker
Bodyguard: Shas'vre with Twin-linked Flamers and Shield Generator
Bodyguard: Shas'vre with Flamer, Cylic ion blaster and Multitracker

Troops:
12 Fire Warriors, (pulse Rifles), Devilfish (one Seeker Missile)
12 Kroot

Fast Attack:
Eight Pathfinders, Three Rail Rifles, Devilfish, Seeker Missile, Disruption Pods

Elites:
6 Man Stealth team, One Fusion blaster, All with Drones Controllers, 10 Gun Drones, one Marker Drone, one Shield Drone.

Heavy Support:
2 Broadside One Man teams (Monats), Shield Generators.
3 Sniper Teams (countsd as one Heavy support choice)

The idea being to Inflitrate the Stealth Team in the centre and the Kroot on a Flank, the Pathfinder scaouting on the other side, Sniper teams & Broadsides with wide fields of fire, the idea being PIN EVERYTHING! Using the large amout of Marker Lights to Raise BS, lower Coversaves, lower leadership for Pinning Checks etc. The Fire Warriors are to be Bussed to whereever they are needed, HQ ready for Deep-Strike to help out Pathfinder teams (givin the special re-roll rule for deep striking with LoS to Pathfinder Devilfish)

What do you think? Does it break any rules?: Does it sound any good?

HQ:
Shas'O with Plasma Rifle, Missile Pod, Command and Control Node, Hard Wired Multi Tracker
Bodyguard: Shas'vre with Twin-linked Flamers and Shield Generator
Bodyguard: Shas'vre with Flamer, Cylic ion blaster and Multitracker

To me this unit is all over the place,not enough missile pods to put the hurt on transports of Dreadknights, with one bodyguard sort of being used for anti-horde and one that can do nothing but anti-horde. IMO insert AFP and CIB on the Shas'O, also, a squad of 3 crisis suits for him to join would be more point effective than 2 bodyguards

Troops:
12 Fire Warriors, (pulse Rifles), Devilfish (one Seeker Missile)
12 Kroot

If it's a pinning list... where are the pinning weapons? Also, your fish is... lacking and one seeker missile is not great, especially for 10 pts.

Remind me (I don't own the 6th Edition Rulebook yet) Do Shield generators/drones cover the entire squad or just themselves?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
HQ:
Shas'O with AFL, CIB, MT, H.W DC, Shield Drone.

Troops:
12 FW, (Pulse Carbines),
12 Kroot

Fast Attack:
Eight Pathfinders, Devilfish,

Elites:
6 Man Stealth team, All with Drones Controllers, 10 Gun Drones, one Marker Drone, one Shield Drone.

3 man crisis team (Missile Pods, Plasma Rifles Multitrackers)
Squad Leader, Hard Wired Drone Controller, 2 Shield Drones)

Heavy Support:
2 Broadside One Man teams (Monats), Shield Drones (One Each).
3 Sniper Teams (counted as one Heavy support choice)

Improved? Made even more Rubbish?

I changed the Bodyguards to a 3 Man team like you suggested. More Light Vehicle firepower now.

Commander is designed (WDYK) for Anti Horde duties. The CIB is there as a range finder for the AFB, for maximum accuracy. I could swap the Shas'O or a Shas'El and the CIB for a Burst Cannon, however.

Oh, in response to the Pinning Question, (Sorry to sound Patronizing) All the Pulse Carbines and the Rail Rifles are Pinning. It's why I gave Stealth Team Supreme so many of them (via the Gun Drones).

Hi

The concept of a pinning list is one that I have considered... But ultimately discarded. There are simply too many forces which completely ignore morale for it to be effective on a cOnsistent basis.

Further to that - I have always found that markerlights get used to boost BS or remove cover, and very seldomly for the pinning penalty.

Honestly, the list feels flawed pretty much from the ground up.

Hq selection - the Shas'o is a common choice for most new tau players, and at first glance he is a huge bump from his shas'el counterpart for just 25 points. However, you need to ask yourself - which of all those lovely stat bumps do I really care about on a toughness 4 non-eternal warrior? The answer is just the ballistic skill... Which isn't worth 25 points.

Therefore run a shas'el - I prefer mine to be lightly costed - twin missiles and a flamer or twin missiles and Ad. Stabilizers if you plan to attach him to a unit of broadsides.

Troops - in my view, fire warriors are the most improved infantry in the new edition. Invest in lots of them for your str 5 fire power (instead of stealth suits and drones). 5/6 missions are objective based, which requires troops to succeed.

Elites - fire knives aren't a bad build, but they sure are expensive. When I take then, I usually spurge and take them as bodyguards, using the armory to kit them with targeting arrays and hard wired multitrackers. When purchasing elites, I go with cheap twin missile & flamer suits for harassment and deterrence.

The stealth suits - I want them to be great - I have six myself - but I look at the 300+ points you are investing and I think about 30+ fire warriors instead - and must choose them.

Fast attack - the second draft is bang on if using pathfinders.

The heavy support - I like the broadsides, although I prefer pairs of them... But whatever floats your boat.

The snipers... I just don't get it ever. Why spent 240 points for 3 marker lights and 9 mediocre shots. That could be more broadsides or more fire warriors .

My rambling $ 0.02.

Cheers,
Nate

Having moved away from pinning entirely, here this is:

HQ:
Shas'El, CIB,AFP,TA, Stimulent injector

Troops:
2 12 man FW squads, Pulse Rifles, Devilifshes, (Disruption Pods, Decoy Launcher, Flechette Discharger, Sensor Snipes)

Fast Attack:
8 Man Pathfinder team, Devilfish, (Disruption Pods, Decoy Launcher, Flechette Discharger, Sensor Snipes, M.Tracker)

Elites:
Crisis Team: (3 Fireknifes (M. Pods, P. Rifles, M.Trackers))
Crisis Team: (1: Fireknife, 1: TW Flamer, 2 Shield Drones, 1: TW F.Blaster, TA)

Heavy Support:
2 man Broadside team (ASS)
Railgun Hammerhead, (Disruption Pods, Decoy Launcher, Flechette Discharger, Sensor Snipes, M.Tracker)

Again, what do you think?

Hi

Issues that remain in my view:
- If buying one defensive upgrade for my commander, I would choose shield drones first (the risk of death goes here first), iridium armour second (he can now survive missile salvos most of the time), a stim injector 3rd (he can negate plasma some of the time), and a personal shield generator fourth (great defensive boost, but it costs him a hard point).

- lack of troops - 5/6 missions require troops to win. Two units of fire warriors are not enough. Even 70 points on 10 Kroot that bunker in a forest on an objective would be an improvement here.

- the devilfish - you are spending a lot of defenvise gear for a tank that will die to its third glancing hit... The disruption pods are gold, the rest are largely unneeded. Stripping them down frees up 80 points.

The second crisis team is utterly unfocused and I think it will continually disappoint you. Pick a role and build for it. I would note that you have an unused elite slot - that twin fusion suit could be a great suicide suit that deep strikes in by itself to kill/cripple a high priority target.

The broadside team - at the very least, invest in a team leader, give him a blacksun filter and a target lock, and shift the shield drones here.

The hammerhead - too much defence, not enough offence - add the target lock and the black sun filter, keep the multi-tracker and the D. pod.

Cheers,
Nate

diestormlie wrote:
Came up with this idea recently for a 1500 points Tau list that Might actually stand a chance against, well, anything. Here Goes:

HQ:
Shas'O with Plasma Rifle, Missile Pod, Command and Control Node, Hard Wired Multi Tracker
Bodyguard: Shas'vre with Twin-linked Flamers and Shield Generator
Bodyguard: Shas'vre with Flamer, Cylic ion blaster and Multitracker

Troops:
12 Fire Warriors, (pulse Rifles), Devilfish (one Seeker Missile)
12 Kroot

Fast Attack:
Eight Pathfinders, Three Rail Rifles, Devilfish, Seeker Missile, Disruption Pods

Elites:
6 Man Stealth team, One Fusion blaster, All with Drones Controllers, 10 Gun Drones, one Marker Drone, one Shield Drone.

Heavy Support:
2 Broadside One Man teams (Monats), Shield Generators.
3 Sniper Teams (countsd as one Heavy support choice)

The idea being to Inflitrate the Stealth Team in the centre and the Kroot on a Flank, the Pathfinder scaouting on the other side, Sniper teams & Broadsides with wide fields of fire, the idea being PIN EVERYTHING! Using the large amout of Marker Lights to Raise BS, lower Coversaves, lower leadership for Pinning Checks etc. The Fire Warriors are to be Bussed to whereever they are needed, HQ ready for Deep-Strike to help out Pathfinder teams (givin the special re-roll rule for deep striking with LoS to Pathfinder Devilfish)

What do you think? Does it break any rules?: Does it sound any good?

I would have to agree that it feels all oer the place. So you want to do a pinning list.

Yet you still need some anti- tank and some hoard control.

What I would trim: Your body guards don't seem to mesh well. I think I would lose them or make them independents seeing you are using them as sacrificial units (double flamer boy.) You do have a lack of anti-tank except of course your broadsides. You have a decent amount of markerlights so you shoould try to get more seeker missiles. 12 kroot seems like an annoyance and not much of a threat. Again with your high volume of markerlights, I might try to get a 2nd firewarrior squad. You have 1 large stealth suit squad. I think I would go with 2 small squads but increase the number of markerlight drones. I would also like to have a 2nd pathfinder squad.

So let's start with a base list:

3 Sniper teams 240 (3 marker lights)
12 Fire warrior: Shasui - Markerlight , Bonding Knife, 2x Markerlight Drones 205
12 Fire warrior: Shasui - Markerlight , Bonding Knife, 2x Markerlight Drones 205
3 Stealth suits: 1 Fusion Gun, 4x Markerlight Drones, 2x Gun Drones 235
3 Stealth suits: 1 Fusion Gun, 4x Markerlight Drones, 2x Gun Drones 235
I think we have enough markerlights to deal with anything. 1120 points.
How about 5 x Piirhanas: Fusion Blaster, 2x Seeker Missiles 425
1545

If we are shooting for 1850, you could add a single broadside and your commander and maybe 1 or 2 more XV8 or another firewarrior squad.
(Pathfinders are cheaper markerlights except then you have to buy the devilfish.)

1. The stealthsuits are hard to target and are highpriced but the markerlight drones are the key.
2. The Pirhanas can unload their gun drones giving you a 10-gun drone unit.
3. Right now you have no broadside - a definite downside but you have the ability to deal with tanks with the 5 pirhanas fusion guns. You shouldn't mind getting into a long ranged firefight and you want to encourage that. The other thing is you have 10 seeker missiles.
4. If you want to do pinning attacks, you need to lower their leadership so that requires multiple markerlights to accomplish that.

I like the idea of a fireknife for your leader. Perhaps a suicide XV8 with 2x fusion guns and one with 2x flamers or 2 with 2x fusion guns. I think if you keep them in reserve and deep strike them in they can deal with the sit back imperial guard artiller and the like.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
At 1500, perhaps lose a pirhana for 85 and convert a markerlight drone in firewarrior squad to a gun drone,
That gives you 80 points to configure your HQ XV8
(2x Fusion blasters and a failsafe detonator?)

Oh god these things are like drugs to me. I have to write one of these a night in order to get to sleep!

HQ
Fireknife Shas'El, P.Relay, TA
Etheral, 2 Shield Drones
12 Man Honour Guard, Pulse Rifles

Troops
12 Man FW team (P Rifles), Devilfish, Disruption pods
12 Kroot

Fast Attack
2 Eight Man Pathfinder Squads, Disruption Pods

Elites
Crisis Shas'vre, CIB, AFP, M.Tracker
Crisis Shas'Ui, TL FB, TA

Heavy Support
2 Broadside Monats (ASS, Team Leaders, 2 Shield Drones apiece)
Railgun Hammerhead, Burst Cannons, MTracker, TA (If I can take it again, Flechette Dischargers, If I can't), Disruption Pods, Decoy Launchers.

What do you think, people of the internet?

I like the list. Albeit it doesn't work around pinning.

Just a small note, I fielded a squad of 4 stealthsuits in two different matches, both started with nightfighting. Once for the roll and once because the other commander rolled for it.

Stealth suits over 12" in a building or ruin get a 2+ save due to how night fighting and stealth generators work as the saves all stack. In five rounds I did not loose a single stealth suit even with a vendicator and CSM's trying to gun them down. It was glorious.

I glanced a rhino to death on turn 1, and spent the rest of the game mowing down the marines huddling around the rhino, he had 2 broadsides on the other side that were ready to pick them off each turn.

 BunkerBob wrote:
Just a small note, I fielded a squad of 4 stealthsuits in two different matches, both started with nightfighting. Once for the roll and once because the other commander rolled for it.

Stealth suits over 12" in a building or ruin get a 2+ save due to how night fighting and stealth generators work as the saves all stack. In five rounds I did not loose a single stealth suit even with a vendicator and CSM's trying to gun them down. It was glorious.

I glanced a rhino to death on turn 1, and spent the rest of the game mowing down the marines huddling around the rhino, he had 2 broadsides on the other side that were ready to pick them off each turn.

Glorious indeed, but I am never ever ever played a match with night fighting. However, on a somewhat night fighting note, the Disruption pods attached to all my Devilfish Hulls give them Shrouded and Stealth for purposes of being shot at. and pathfinders can pin still. xD!

Here is how NF works, at over 12 inches +1 to cover, at over 24 inches +2 to cover, at over 36 inches no one can shoot at you.

At 12 inches you are at 3+ (for a 5+ building) or 2+ ( for a 4+ ruin) cover to whatever building you are standing in (or ruin) due to how stealth and shrouded work now.

I pitty the fool that is not afraid of 18 S5 shots.

Ignore this list! Its rubbish!!

I Can stop writing these any time I like. THis one is jinked for Night Fighting, Taking Advantage of the new BSF Rules. Changed slightly here, no Broadsides, but More Deep Strike Firepower. Strat for Armoured is Deep Strike Back Attack. 2 Man Crisis Team is Back Attack Anti Horde.

HQ
Sha'El Fireknife, TA, PRelay,BSF
Etheral, Gun Drones, BSF, 12 Man Honour Guard

Troops
2 * 12 FW team, Tleaders, BSF

Fast Attack
2 * 8 Man pathfinder Squad, TLeader, BSF, DFish, DPods,MTracker, BSF,S. Spines

Elites
3 Man stealth team, FB, BSF, TLock, 2 SD

Crisis team: Shas'vre, cib, afp, TA
Shas'ui, TL Flamer, BSF

Crisis Shas'ui, TL FB, BSF

Heavy Support
Railgun Hammerhead, B Cannons, D.Pods, BSF, S Spines.

 BunkerBob wrote:
Here is how NF works, at over 12 inches +1 to cover, at over 24 inches +2 to cover, at over 36 inches no one can shoot at you.

At 12 inches you are at 3+ (for a 5+ building) or 2+ ( for a 4+ ruin) cover to whatever building you are standing in (or ruin) due to how stealth and shrouded work now.
.

No it doesn't I'm afraid
Nightfighting gives you stealth at up to 12", shrouded at up to 24" and cannot be seen past 36"
Stealth generators give you stealth and shrouded, not a 4+ cover, stealth and shrouded stack with each other, but not stealth with stealth and shrouded with shrouded.
So no benefit unless you were 36" away.

If i may add my 0,02 cents

First, I think that your Shas'El commander is illegal. Fireknife configuration includes Plasma Rifle, Missile Pod and Multi-Tracker. Even if you change the MT to Hardwired there is only room for one more system either TA or PRelay.
Ethereal is a liability. Any opponent who knows our codex will try to take him out first and force you to take morale checks. Spend those points to another suit(s).

IMHO it's better to have 3x8 teams of FW instead of 2x12.

Maybe the Stealth should be a bare minimum 3 man team with no upgrades. You should try to maximize their cover saves and give the shield drones to another unit that needs it more ie. Commander to avoid ID weapons and giving easy slay the warlord.

Only one railgun?

Macross21R wrote:
If i may add my 0,02 cents

First, I think that your Shas'El commander is illegal. Fireknife configuration includes Plasma Rifle, Missile Pod and Multi-Tracker. Even if you change the MT to Hardwired there is only room for one more system either TA or PRelay.
Ethereal is a liability. Any opponent who knows our codex will try to take him out first and force you to take morale checks. Spend those points to another suit(s).

IMHO it's better to have 3x8 teams of FW instead of 2x12.

Maybe the Stealth should be a bare minimum 3 man team with no upgrades. You should try to maximize their cover saves and give the shield drones to another unit that needs it more ie. Commander to avoid ID weapons and giving easy slay the warlord.

Only one railgun?

HQ is legal, I think (I'm doing this without my codex handy) as the BSF and the MT can be Hardwired, leaving two shoulder Slots, so both PRelay and the TA can be afixed unto the model in the 'normal' position. (and Besides they can always be afixed onto the Back or somesuch.

I'm Taking the Etheral for the Honour Guard. I I want my BS4 FW.

3*8 will mean three Team-leaders, three BSFs. that's an eight point this list can't spare.

Only One Railgun cos's the Anti-tank firepower comes from the Elites (set to Deep-Strike).

I could move the Shield Drones to the Etheral or my Commander perhaps (who'll swear by JSJ), although IMVHO in general I must disagree with you.

Shas'El is illegal.
Any opponent that knows the Codex will NOT kill the etherial as any T'au units now get Preferred Enemy... this... is... AWESOMESAUCE for tau, I have seen some list specifically DESIGNED to play to this with just a lone Etherial running midfield. However, the Honor guard is pointless... because it's not a troop. This is over 200 points spent elsewhere.

Maybe 2 6 man Pathfinder squads at 1500 points. 4 more markerlights, smaller unit silhouette and split firing both ways.

8/9 man fire warrior teams are optimum for leadership testing. Also fire warriors can't get the team leader upgrade it's Shas'Ui or nothing. Drop the BSF and Sensor spines, they are laughable useless on the fishies, whilst your at it drop them from the stealth team, completely wasted here too... as is the fusion blaster and shield drones

Ahhh Crisis Team. Just FYI that TA will not help that AFP at all, and his buddy is points wasted. BSF on the Shas'Vre alone is useless.

And the BSF on the Fusion suit is useless, I know it's cheap, but it's also points spent on nothing.

Tau rules 101: 1 Railgun per 500 points, you need 3 railguns here xD

Tau rules 101: BSF on Missile Pods and Rail Guns... that is all.

Tau Rules 101: Fire warriors are decent but expensive, either play a list that uses a few small teams, or a list that invests in these guys.


... Cough...

Shas'Vre, Missile Pod, Airbursating Fragmentation Projector, Positional Relay, HW Multi-Tracker, HW Blacksun Filter
Shas'Ui, Missile Pod, Burst Cannon, Multi-Tracker
Shas'Ui, Missile Pod, Burst Cannon, Multi-Tracker

Shas'Ui, TL Fusion Blaster, Shield Generator (Or even cheaper, Drone Controller with a Shield Drone)
Shas'Ui, TL Fusion Blaster, Shield Generator (Or even cheaper, Drone Controller with a Shield Drone)
AND FOR EXTRA LULZ!
Shas'Ui, TL Fusion Blaster, Shield Generator (Or even cheaper, Drone Controller with a Shield Drone)

Now deep strike this unit to a point visible to your pathfinder devilfish behind an enemy tank...

Right then, ignore that last list, it's been retconned out of existence. Ignore it. Think about the list above it.