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So far my experience with them has been less than effective. Anyone have any tips for an effective footdar army? Note, I don't mean strict infantry. I usually avoid Wave Serpents as they are expensive, seem to pop very easily and lack assault ramps (despite physically having assault ramps) and I have 0 jetbike models. Note on my typical opponents, almost all run mechanized/Gun line and spam the hell out of plasma, blast, barrage, and templates.

Models currently at my disposal:

2 Farseers
2 Autarchs
5-6 Warlocks
30+ Guardians with 3 weapon platforms
15-20 Storm Guardians (2 Flamers and 2 Fusion)
10 Dire Avengers with exarch
5 Rangers
10 Harlequin
5 Hawks with exarch
10 Banshees (Have used them as scorpions)
10 Fire Dragons with exarch
8 Warp Spiders with exarch
3 Vypers
3 Wave Serpents -_-'
1 Falcon
2 Fire Prisms
3 War Walkers
5 Reapers with exarch

The only models I've had any measure success with are Reapers when kitted with an exarch, tempest launcher, and crack shot, Harlequin though my opponents have learned to avoid them like the plague, and fire dragons which are single-use and have yet to survive after attacking.

No.

Harlequeen spam seems popular.

You could allie with corseirs, they have some interesting troop models.

Here is my footdar list I've been having some success with at a casual level. If you're going up against top tier armies footdar probably isn't the right army but in casual play its quite fun.

HQ
Avatar (155)
Eldrad (210)

Elites
8 Harlequins- Kisses, Shadowseer (206)

Troops
10 Guardians- Scatter Laser (95)
10 Guardians- Scatter Laser (95)
5 Rangers (95)
3 Guardian Jetbikes- Cannon (76)

Heavy Support
Wraith Lord- BL, EML (155)
Wraith Lord- BL, EML (155)
3 War Walkers- Scatter Lasers (180)

Fort
Aegis Defense Line (50)

Gives you 28pts left over. The key to the army is 2 fortunes a turn and proper unit placement. So much of the army is dependent on short range buffs that keeping a tight castle is mandatory. Guardians need to be in the Avatar's fearless bubble. Warwalkers need to be in guide range. Avatar needs to be in fortune range. Warithlords need to be by either the shadowseer or Eldrad to prevent wraithsight. This forces a very castle play style. Its weaknesses are armies that can just shoot you off the table IG, DE, and certain SW builds are all tough match ups but against a sort of standard marine army or anything mixing assault and shooting elements I've found it to be a pretty good match.

As was said earlier Footdar is not a competitive army however I find its very fun and rewarding to play at a casual level out of all the armies I've played my best games have been with Footdar.

Nevermind.

DarknessEternal wrote:No.

In 5th ed, footdar drew way too much hate. It was viable even if people didn't think it should be.

We're in 6th now, though. If foottdar are suffering from the same problems as green tide, power blobs, and other horde armies (no reason to assume they wouldn't), then you're going to have a very, VERY tough time making it work. Given that we're talking about a play style that is now heavily discouraged by GW, from a codex that is now two rules editions out of date, I'd be more inclined to agree with darkness eternal, rather than to disagree.

Ailaros wrote:
from a codex that is now two rules editions out of date

This is the main factor for Footdar feeling lacking and having several bad match ups. Footdar has fared a little better than foot guard or green tide just because they don't loose anything to directed hits or challenges such as special weapons or PK Nobs. Granted Footdar was never considered as good as those two builds were to begin with. It plays a little more like a gun line than an assault army against most opponents which I think helped it. Like all Eldar armies now though the lack of good troop choices is its biggest weakness. Also now with the changes to cover an ADL is mandatory as T3 +5 on most of your infantry just doesn't cut it. In the transition from 5th to 6th its almost as if there is a minimum 50pt tax for the army.

However I think it took a lesser nerf than mech Eldar did. Not that it puts them on level playing field but the death of DAVU really hurt the mech build.

Convert those guardians into corsairs! :-)

Some foot'dar elements have gotten a lot better -- such as guardian jetbikes. Sadly, you don't have any of them.

Out of what you have, these are the models that are currently considered competitive or semi-competitive.
Farseers..............Hard to go wrong with their powers.
5-6 Warlocks.......Good in the right situation. With a farseer you can tarpit.
5 Rangers............Decent snipers.
10 Harlequin........Combine with a pheonix lord and fortune, and you have a dead-hard unit.
10 Fire Dragons...Still good stuff. If you have an exarch they can use their special shooting rules with a quad-gun
8 Warp Spiders....Changes to jump troops make them better. They can glance vehicles to death.
3 War Walkers.....Not was good as they were in 5th. 2 Hull points means they only can get 1 turn of shooting.
5 Reapers............Oddly enough due to the meta these have gotten better. More foot units means they are a bit better.

Right now the best foot'dar armies are eldar/dark eldar hybrids.
This is a forum link to a discussion about an eldar/dark eldar hybrid list that kicked major ass at NOVA. It was a foot list. I would suggest reading this and looking to shift your Eldar army in that direction.
http://the11thcompany.freeforums.org/best-deldar-list-i-have-ever-seen-for-nova-t4174.html

As long as you realize the limitations, foot dar is fun.

I like a guardian theme on foot but Dire Avengers can work equally well.

So here we go:

Let's say 4 guardian squads with an EML (need some anti-tank as it is a big weakness of foot dar) 420 points.
1 3-man Dark Reaper with EML and fast shot. 147
1 3-man Dark Reaper with Tempest and crack shot. 147

So 714

Avatar 155
Eldrad 210
1079

I need something to tak out termies - I like pathfinders but rangers could do the job. 10 of them for 240
1319

1 5 man Fire Dragon exarch with tank hunter and crack shot 112
ADL
1431

Now you have some options if you want to stay on foot. 10-man Wraithguard. Foot seer council. 2 large harlequin units. 3 D-cannons. A small jetbike unit. 2 or 3 warp spiders.

Walkers are another option but I avoid this based on cost not effectiveness.


So:

Eldrad
Avatar


10 Guardians EML 105
10 Guardians EML 105
10 Guardians EML 105
10 Guardians EML 105
10 Pathfinders 240

3 Dark Reapers: Exarch with Fast Shot and EML 147
3 Dark Reapers: Exarch with Crack Shot and Tempest 147
3 D-Cannons 150

6 Warp Spders Exarch 2 spinners 169

5 Fire Dragons: Exach with Crack Shot and Tank Hunter 112

ADL with Quad Gun 100
365
660
444
112
100
169

1850 -

You have an answer for everything except a hoard of templates and demons. (Fiends of Slaanesh, Bloodcrushers and Demon Princes and Lords...)
You have a limited response to tanks but most except for Lehman Russes and Vindicators and all the Guard Artillery is liveable.
You also have no good CC unit. What you do have is 6 S8 krak missile shots, 6 melta shots and 4 almost autohit S7 shots from the quad gun.
If you guide the pathfinders and doom their target, you should generate somewhere around 5 AP 1 shots and 4 regular shots that hit with a 75% chance of wounding. This is not good news for terminators.

If you want close combat remove your 6 warp spiders and spend 169 for CC unit of your liking. Also the D-Cannons are a preference of mine for protecting the guardians. (People don't generally like running into 24" of S10 AP1 with 3 blast templates.

If you don't like the avatar, then you almost have to go with 4 embolden warlocks(120 pts) That leaves you with 35 points to burn. For that I would maybe change one warlock to conceal (+10) and add 3 guardians to that squad. The problem is you are going to be casting Fortune on that squad every turn.

If you want to play on the edge - don't take the warlocks and buy yourself a 2nd farseer with spirit stones and 2 abilities. The switch him to book Divination.
You have 4 useful powers... And a backup of an auto power.
Presciance - (Like Guide but longer range)
Foreboding - (Use your Standard BS on overwatch and gain Counterattack)
Forewarning - (Give a unit 4+ Invulnerable)
Misfortunw - (Liwk Doom)
Perfect Timing - (Give a unit Ignores Cover)
Precognition - ( Reroll To Hit, To Wound, and Saves for Self)
Scriers Gase - (Use 3 dice to affect Reserve, Outflank and Mysterious Terrain rolls)

I like all of the options except Precognitioin and Scriers Gaze.

Farseers..............Hard to go wrong with their powers.
5-6 Warlocks.......Good in the right situation. With a farseer you can tarpit.
5 Rangers............Decent snipers.
10 Harlequin........Combine with a pheonix lord and fortune, and you have a dead-hard unit.
10 Fire Dragons...Still good stuff. If you have an exarch they can use their special shooting rules with a quad-gun
8 Warp Spiders....Changes to jump troops make them better. They can glance vehicles to death.
3 War Walkers.....Not was good as they were in 5th. 2 Hull points means they only can get 1 turn of shooting.
5 Reapers............Oddly enough due to the meta these have gotten better. More foot units means they are a bit better.

Sounds like a list.
How about Serpents? With 3 hullpoints they are not very durable, aren't they? On the other hand, only weapons of strength 6 or higher can touch them, and with cover they should be able to ignore every 3rd hit.

The biggest challange here is that he needs to have a good mesh with a list.
Eldar/Dark Eldar armies really require synergy to work well.
I don't know how well those units will synergize.

So:

Eldrad
Avatar


10 Guardians EML 105
10 Guardians EML 105
10 Guardians EML 105
10 Guardians EML 105
10 Pathfinders 240(short 5)

3 Dark Reapers: Exarch with Fast Shot and EML 147
3 Dark Reapers: Exarch with Crack Shot and Tempest 147
3 D-Cannons 150

6 Warp Spders Exarch 2 spinners 169

5 Fire Dragons: Exach with Crack Shot and Tank Hunter 112

ADL with Quad Gun 100

So this is what you are short of with what you listed.
380 So:

Eldrad
Avatar


10 Guardians EML 105
10 Guardians EML 105
10 Guardians EML 105
10 Guardians EML 105
10 Pathfinders 240

3 Dark Reapers: Exarch with Fast Shot and EML 147
3 Dark Reapers: Exarch with Crack Shot and Tempest 147
3 D-Cannons 150

6 Warp Spders Exarch 2 spinners 169

5 Fire Dragons: Exach with Crack Shot and Tank Hunter 112

ADL with Quad Gun 100


So with this ideal list, you are short 757 from your list.
Take 10 storm guardians with 2 flamers and a destructor warlock 125
3 war walkers with 2 scatter lasers 180
1 farseer with runes of warding, stones, 100 + 4 x 10 pt powers. 140 (he is going to switch to divination.)
445
You can do without it but I think the ADL and quad gun gives you a lot of coverage vs air and tanks. I qould recommend buying it.
I think you are light on anti-tank and I think you need a dark reaper exarch with EML. (2 S8 shots that hit on all but 1s is pretty good.)

wuestenfux wrote: With 3 hullpoints they are not very durable, aren't they? On the other hand, only weapons of strength 6 or higher can touch them, and with cover they should be able to ignore every 3rd hit.

With my local meta being (plasma/melta/las-cannon-equivolent)-spam S6 is considered the average -_-'. So, yes. At my LSG, they are fragile.

---

labmouse42 wrote: Eldar/Dark Eldar armies really require synergy to work well.

My army's fluff actually has me taking DE allies fairly often. Lately I've been eyeballing them to serve as my general infantry. (I take Rangers from Eldar as support and take Warriors from the DE as general infantry thanks to their higher BS, poison weapons and cheaper Dark Lances). I've also been tinkering with the idea of making a reserves list that involves an Archon w/ webway portal attached to infiltrating scorpions. Unfortunately, I have to proxy all DE units as I currently own 0.

For the ADL, I'm kind of worried about that as my opponents always seem to out-range me. I've tried the EML spam before but that was back in 5th and it didn't turn out as my most common opponent was static IG at the time. Kind of worried of simply being barrage-blasted to death while I hide behind my wall. The Quad-Gun and worthwhile cover just look too tasty to pass up though.

As suggested, I'll dust off my Reapers and hope for the best. Never really had any luck with Seer Counsels though, seems they get focused VERY hard (and thus die quickly) once they stumble into view.

 wuestenfux wrote:

Farseers..............Hard to go wrong with their powers.
5-6 Warlocks.......Good in the right situation. With a farseer you can tarpit.
5 Rangers............Decent snipers.
10 Harlequin........Combine with a pheonix lord and fortune, and you have a dead-hard unit.
10 Fire Dragons...Still good stuff. If you have an exarch they can use their special shooting rules with a quad-gun
8 Warp Spiders....Changes to jump troops make them better. They can glance vehicles to death.
3 War Walkers.....Not was good as they were in 5th. 2 Hull points means they only can get 1 turn of shooting.
5 Reapers............Oddly enough due to the meta these have gotten better. More foot units means they are a bit better.

Sounds like a list.
How about Serpents? With 3 hullpoints they are not very durable, aren't they? On the other hand, only weapons of strength 6 or higher can touch them, and with cover they should be able to ignore every 3rd hit.

K this started as a simple post on my part, but then I decided to say eff it and do a run down of everything...

Serpents are actually a bit more resilient to shooting now with jink, however every other ounce of their viability has been severally beaten into the ground.
- You can only move 6" and get your guys out making hoping over terrain/enemies to place you models where they need to go much harder
- You can't contest/capture objectives with them
- If they get assaulted they are likely dead... by pretty much everything

HQs
- Phoenix lords while still overpriced are actually viable again. Their 2+ armor is a LOT tougher and thanks to their exarch powers there is unintended combos that opened up. Example: Karandras + 3 gun DCannon Battery + Eldrad. Guided, Stealthed, Infiltrated, Fortuned, 3 blast barrage of death turn one. All T7 vs shooting and if you assault it you deal with Karandras.
- Eldrad.. yup. Though his CC ability to a major hit with Witchblade and power weapon nerfs.
- Farseer, still awesome.
- Autarch, good knowin ya bud
- Yriel, meh
- Avatar, hulk smash. Fearless rocks now
-Seer council/Warlocks, awesome that fortune is mainly uncontested now, but destructor being technically a PSA means it's become unreliable and FAQed to not snap fire. Add to that the proliferation of 2+ armor and the nerf to witch blades and they become less cool. My suggestion here is heavy on the singing spears and move/shoot/move with them instead of assaulting stuff.


Elite
- Banshees, RIP girls. See ya on an update
- Scorps, still meh, but at least you can catch stuff now
- Wraithguard... moving on
- Fire Dragons, still great, but with the loss of their reliable ride they are hurting a bit. If you suicide dragon it gets a lot harder and you are now DEFINITELY going to lose that serpent.
- Harlies, awesome that they have fantastic cover now, but still very fragile and now susceptible to having the Shadowseer sniped.

For troops
- Pathfinders/rangers got much better with precision shots and with less mech they have more targets.
- Guardian jetbikes lots a bit of survivability in wound allocation and 3+ turboboost, but gained jink and their rediculous 48" move... fantastic tradeoff. Also premeasure makes Move-shoot-move a LOT better.
- Guardians took a serious hit now that there is a lot of things that can kill off your platform gunners :(
- DA... without their transports being worth a darn, they will be seeing some dust.

Fast Attack
- Shining spears, could be awesome if they got rid of that "on the turn they charge". However with that, they can't reliably do their job for their cost.
- Hawks, Intercept lets you auto hit vehicles and you can throw haywires... unfortunately they won't prob live to see that or past that moment. Their rubberhawking become more reliable and hawk grenade sniping can be rather effective. I'm very happyoverall with my Hawks now.
- Spiders, got better
- Vyper, the 5+ jink actually makes them better then before, but still really risky

Heavies
- Reapers, as others have said just the meta shift made them better
- Falcon, you can fire both weapons at 12" now... but holofield bit it... HUGE hit :( not to mention contesting/scoring
- Prism, without holofields and contesting, they took a huge downshift. They did however get slightly more reliable in shooting with blast changes
- Nightspinner, they can snipe out enemies really well now ... however holofield hit and dangerous terrain change hurt them alot
- Support Weapons, HUGE boost. T7, wound allocation, barrage sniping, and aegis barrier shot these guys up the viability charts. Their only bane atm is fliers.
- War Walkers, the glass cannons become even more fragile glass.
- Wraithlords, being a character now means you can try to take out that one powerfist before he rocks your world. Add to that 25% cover for them now and the HoW attack and he got quite a bit better.

If you read all that, I commend you.

I did read all that. I was tinkering with the idea of buying and magnetizing 3 Support Weapons. They have done ok for me in the past (proxied) but I've yet to use them in the newer edition. The 1500 point list I threw together this morning included both the Fire Prism and WWs. I really want to use them as I bought them shortly before 6th came around. Kind of sad that I "wasted" some money on them T_T. As this list doesn't have any guardians I may just proxy some Support Weapons and see how they do in place of the Fire Prism. I may ditch my WW for my Reapers but I think WW with their mass of EMLs would function better against the mixed IG I'll have to deal with. Mix for this guy = Mech guard with an Al-Raheim outflanking platoon.

I've run the support weapons several times since 6th launch and they have been fantastic. They all laugh at incomming fire now as long as you have cover, but of course still fall to a charge like all non-Wraithlord heavies. The D-Cannon is fantastic objective coverage and with so many missions requiring the enemy to come to you in some fashion they actually get to shoot now. The spinner gun is fantastic long range support, but the vibrocannon has never impressed me.

The key with them is the barrage. Barrage sniping models is really key in 6th, so the ability to triple blast barrage a key target forcing piles of wounds onto it is devastating. As an example, in my last tournament there was a pack of wraiths with a destroyer lord attached. I used a D-Cannon to put 7 wounds on him, 3 of which were instant deaths. Yes, he gets his lookout sir, but at that point it was a 50/50 chance of a failure and autogib... which it did. He used everliving to get back up (&$&#&$#@!) and I did it again lol.