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2012/09/21 17:01:59
Subject: Romney says "47 percent of Americans believe they are victims" about whom he shouldn't "worry"
dogma wrote: Hobbes and Rousseau disagree with that.
Because they would disagree about what a human right is.
Actually, both would disagree that they even exists. But they were still enormously influential.
Not to be punny, but that's immaterial. The issue is whether non-tangible things exist beyond our perception of them (as if the same question could not be asked of tangible ones).
Define properly 'exist'. Fictive entities exists once they are formulated. They were possible since forever, or since their paradigm was adopted. Some fictive entities (like quantities) are easily manifested to our cognition. We can say, by a stretch of langage, that they exist indepedantly from the subject, since it's easy to think that the subject is somehow built around their perception.
The idea that we should entitle every humans with Rights based on a general conception of what man needs, in bare minimum, to have dignity, isn't so. Evidence being the relative youth of human rights rhetoric.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/09/21 17:39:10
[...] for conflict is the great teacher, and pain, the perfect educator.
2012/09/21 18:10:53
Subject: Romney says "47 percent of Americans believe they are victims" about whom he shouldn't "worry"
“Romney gave 30% of his income last year to charity. Yes, he’s clearly a greedy, selfish one-percenter who doesn’t care about the poor.”
If youreally care, you don’t give money yourself. You get the government to force other people to give. That’s what true compassion is all about. Just ask Joe Biden.
Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!
2012/09/21 19:12:42
Subject: Romney says "47 percent of Americans believe they are victims" about whom he shouldn't "worry"
That's why people are asking for older tax returns. If you look at politicians their spending changes when they know they are being watched and judged.
Tax returns before he decided to run are going to tell us a lot more than a year of money spend when he knew he would be judged.
2012/09/21 19:21:45
Subject: Romney says "47 percent of Americans believe they are victims" about whom he shouldn't "worry"
Over the past 20 years he is supposed to have given a shade over 13% of his adjusted earnings to charity. So no 30% is not average for him but it seems not exactly out of character either.
Avatar 720 wrote: You see, to Auston, everyone is a Death Star; there's only one way you can take it and that's through a small gap at the back.
Powder Burns wrote:what they need to make is a fullsize leatherman, like 14" long folded, with a bone saw, notches for bowstring, signaling flare, electrical hand crank generator, bolt cutters..
2012/09/21 19:23:27
Subject: Romney says "47 percent of Americans believe they are victims" about whom he shouldn't "worry"
AustonT wrote: Over the past 20 years he is supposed to have given a shade over 13% of his adjusted earnings to charity. So no 30% is not average for him but it seems not exactly out of character either.
Auston, that "nearly" 30% figure was only for '11.
Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!
2012/09/21 19:25:24
Subject: Romney says "47 percent of Americans believe they are victims" about whom he shouldn't "worry"
Powder Burns wrote:what they need to make is a fullsize leatherman, like 14" long folded, with a bone saw, notches for bowstring, signaling flare, electrical hand crank generator, bolt cutters..
2012/09/21 19:26:23
Subject: Romney says "47 percent of Americans believe they are victims" about whom he shouldn't "worry"
It has to do with under claiming his donations to keep some sort of promise to keep his tax rate at 13% or something. I'm in class and honestly Romneys taxes and giving are roughly above wondering what ants are thinking on my give a gak list...sorry.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ahtman wrote: When his dad ran for office he released 12 years of returns. In fact his dad set the standard for transparency in tax returns for candidates.
Yeah remember president Romney? So I guess maybe that wasn't a great idea. Did Obama by chance show 12years of returns? I'm actually asking, again, don't care.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/09/21 19:34:53
Avatar 720 wrote: You see, to Auston, everyone is a Death Star; there's only one way you can take it and that's through a small gap at the back.
Powder Burns wrote:what they need to make is a fullsize leatherman, like 14" long folded, with a bone saw, notches for bowstring, signaling flare, electrical hand crank generator, bolt cutters..
2012/09/21 19:35:26
Subject: Romney says "47 percent of Americans believe they are victims" about whom he shouldn't "worry"
I don't even care unless its mandatory to release 12 yrs of tax returns.
Proud Member of the Infidels of OIF/OEF
No longer defending the US Military or US Gov't. Just going to ""**feed into your fears**"" with Duffel Blog Did not fight my way up on top the food chain to become a Vegan...
Warning: Stupid Allergy
Once you pull the pin, Mr. Grenade is no longer your friend
DE 6700
Harlequin 2500
RIP Muhammad Ali.
Jihadin, Scorched Earth 791. Leader of the Pork Eating Crusader. Alpha
2012/09/21 19:37:08
Subject: Romney says "47 percent of Americans believe they are victims" about whom he shouldn't "worry"
George Romney was a force for moderation and inclusiveness in the Republican Party. There's really no use in comparing him to his son now that Mitt wants to be president.
This election is one of the few times in the last 10 years that I could actually see a new political party forming unless the Republicans can shed themselves off the cancer that is the Tea Party.
The Republican Party of 10 years ago, maybe a hair more moderate, without the crazy antics of the Tea Party would really be a nice option to have.
2012/09/21 19:42:49
Subject: Romney says "47 percent of Americans believe they are victims" about whom he shouldn't "worry"
No, not 10 years ago. How about Bush I? I could probably vote Republican if the party was in step with that. Sadly, the party wasn't even when he was in the White House.
If they donated a lot and got a 14% rate, but their average annual rate is 20%, then I am going to assume that he didn't always donate so much when nobody was looking.
Since whembly opened the door that his charity contributions are relevant.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/09/21 19:43:24
2012/09/21 20:03:49
Subject: Romney says "47 percent of Americans believe they are victims" about whom he shouldn't "worry"
d-usa wrote:This election is one of the few times in the last 10 years that I could actually see a new political party forming unless the Republicans can shed themselves off the cancer that is the Tea Party.
I think the cancer of the religious right is more important to remove so we have to go pre-1980 at least.
I've said it before and I'll say it again I would like BOTH parties to split. We need a national dialogue with a multitude of voices so red vs blue doesn't make compromise impossible.
d-usa wrote:If they donated a lot and got a 14% rate, but their average annual rate is 20%, then I am going to assume that he didn't always donate so much when nobody was looking.
Since whembly opened the door that his charity contributions are relevant.
Like I said 13% over 20 years is nothing to sneer at, considering his considerable wealth Id be willing to bet he donated more than Vince Young lost.
In any event it makes Harry Ried look like an idiot for claiming he paid no taxes and demanding he release his taxes. Explains why we never saw the "hacked" records if they even had them.
Avatar 720 wrote: You see, to Auston, everyone is a Death Star; there's only one way you can take it and that's through a small gap at the back.
Powder Burns wrote:what they need to make is a fullsize leatherman, like 14" long folded, with a bone saw, notches for bowstring, signaling flare, electrical hand crank generator, bolt cutters..
2012/09/21 20:06:24
Subject: Re:Romney says "47 percent of Americans believe they are victims" about whom he shouldn't "worry"
The fact that Harry Reid even did it on the Senate floor made him even look worse. Pelosi throwing in on it to was funny.
Proud Member of the Infidels of OIF/OEF
No longer defending the US Military or US Gov't. Just going to ""**feed into your fears**"" with Duffel Blog Did not fight my way up on top the food chain to become a Vegan...
Warning: Stupid Allergy
Once you pull the pin, Mr. Grenade is no longer your friend
DE 6700
Harlequin 2500
RIP Muhammad Ali.
Jihadin, Scorched Earth 791. Leader of the Pork Eating Crusader. Alpha
2012/09/21 20:16:37
Subject: Romney says "47 percent of Americans believe they are victims" about whom he shouldn't "worry"
AustonT wrote: In any event it makes Harry Ried look like an idiot for claiming he paid no taxes and demanding he release his taxes. Explains why we never saw the "hacked" records if they even had them.
Harry Ried has never needed any help to make himself look like an idiot.
Amidst the mists and coldest frosts he thrusts his fists against the posts and still insists he sees the ghosts.
2012/09/21 20:19:37
Subject: Romney says "47 percent of Americans believe they are victims" about whom he shouldn't "worry"
d-usa wrote: If they donated a lot and got a 14% rate, but their average annual rate is 20%, then I am going to assume that he didn't always donate so much when nobody was looking.
Since whembly opened the door that his charity contributions are relevant.
I thought it was always relevent?!? oops...
Just don't open that Roman Polak door! Oh Gawd... not THAT door!
Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!
2012/09/21 20:20:18
Subject: Romney says "47 percent of Americans believe they are victims" about whom he shouldn't "worry"
Like I said 13% over 20 years is nothing to sneer at, considering his considerable wealth Id be willing to bet he donated more than Vince Young lost.
But his average is 20% over the last 10 years or so. So if he has some years with 13% then he probably has some years with 27%.
My take was more on his charity. Since giving 30% is what brought him down a lot, and since whembley made it a point to talk about his charity, then we can assume that he didn't give as much in the years he didn't release.
I am not that impressed at his donations considering he knew this would get released and he would be watched. So he had an incentive to be more giving.
Of course every elected official, including Obama, is doing the same thing.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/09/21 20:20:38
2012/09/21 20:22:14
Subject: Romney says "47 percent of Americans believe they are victims" about whom he shouldn't "worry"
Like I said 13% over 20 years is nothing to sneer at, considering his considerable wealth Id be willing to bet he donated more than Vince Young lost.
But his average is 20% over the last 10 years or so. So if he has some years with 13% then he probably has some years with 27%.
My take was more on his charity. Since giving 30% is what brought him down a lot, and since whembley made it a point to talk about his charity, then we can assume that he didn't give as much in the years he didn't release.
I am not that impressed at his donations considering he knew this would get released and he would be watched. So he had an incentive to be more giving.
Of course every elected official, including Obama, is doing the same thing.
See that youtube I posted... (has nothing to do with this thread, but it's an excuse to post that fething awesome fight)
Anyhoo...you do have a point.
But, why do we care about his tax return again?
Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!
2012/09/21 20:22:14
Subject: Romney says "47 percent of Americans believe they are victims" about whom he shouldn't "worry"
AustonT wrote: In any event it makes Harry Ried look like an idiot for claiming he paid no taxes and demanding he release his taxes. Explains why we never saw the "hacked" records if they even had them.
Harry Ried has never needed any help to make himself look like an idiot.
He and Romney have something in common after all
Avatar 720 wrote: You see, to Auston, everyone is a Death Star; there's only one way you can take it and that's through a small gap at the back.
Powder Burns wrote:what they need to make is a fullsize leatherman, like 14" long folded, with a bone saw, notches for bowstring, signaling flare, electrical hand crank generator, bolt cutters..
2012/09/21 20:24:20
Subject: Romney says "47 percent of Americans believe they are victims" about whom he shouldn't "worry"
Fine... here's a recap since evidently *I* opened that door...
- In 2011, the Romneys paid $1,935,708 in taxes on $13,696,951 in mostly investment income.
- The Romneys’ effective tax rate for 2011 was 14.1%.
-The Romneys donated $4,020,772 to charity in 2011, amounting to nearly 30% of their income.
-The Romneys claimed a deduction for $2.25 million of those charitable contributions. The Romneys’ generous charitable donations in 2011 would have significantly reduced their tax obligation for the year. The Romneys thus limited their deduction of charitable contributions to conform to the Governor's statement in August, based upon the January estimate of income, that he paid at least 13% in income taxes in each of the last 10 years.
-Joe Biden, by comparison, gave an average of $369 per year before people started noticing.
- In each year during the entire 20-year period, the Romneys owed both state and federal income taxes.
-Over the entire 20-year period, the average annual effective federal tax rate was 20.20%.
-Over the entire 20-year period, the lowest annual effective federal personal tax rate was 13.66%.
-Over the entire 20-year period, the Romneys gave to charity an average of 13.45% of their adjusted gross income.
-Over the entire 20-year period, the total federal and state taxes owed plus the total charitable donations deducted represented 38.49% of total AGI.
-During the 20-year period covered by the PWC letter, Gov. and Mrs. Romney paid100 percent of the taxes that they owed.
Sooo
Can we let this faux-outrage die?
There are easier things to criticized Romney on...
Seriously, coming from the king of the right wing blog posts.
The guy who just a few days ago posted a link that complained that the President of "hope and change" is now suddenly running on a message of "hope and change"?
2012/09/21 20:41:53
Subject: Re:Romney says "47 percent of Americans believe they are victims" about whom he shouldn't "worry"
Seriously, coming from the king of the right wing blog posts.
The guy who just a few days ago posted a link that complained that the President of "hope and change" is now suddenly running on a message of "hope and change"?
That was yesterday dude... He ran on "hope and change" to get elected, then goes on Univision says "I can't change it on the inside"... there's a disconnect, that's ALL I was saying.
Here's more:
So, let’s just take a second here to process this. Mitt Romney, who is ostensibly uncaring, out-of-touch, and disdainful of poor people, gave more than 13 percent of his income (amounting to millions and millions of dollars) over twenty years to charity, and didn’t even always take the full tax deduction. (The bastard!) By at least one count, the average effective federal tax rate for Americans is 11 percent — and Romney’s average annual rate was 20 percent, also amounting to millions and millions of dollars that went into the federal government’s coffers. He has done nothing wrong or shady, unless you consider being a wildly excellent businessman to be a vice, and the finger-pointers now look pretty darn dumb.
If this isn’t it, can somebody please explain to me exactly what it is that a “fair share” is supposed to look like? Are we supposed to detest rich people, or should we admire them? Will the real Barack Obama please stand up?
And these summary was notarized by PWC (Price Water Coopers).
(has nothing to do with this thread, but it's an excuse to post that fething awesome fight)
