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I used Jaws of the World Wolf against some Biovores. Unfortunately, right in front of the Biovores is a flying Hive Tyrant. Would this mean JotWW still affects the Biovore even though the target of the psychic power (the Hive Tyrant) cannot be affected?

No, the target is the first model that you can draw line of sight to that you can effect.

So long as you can see the first model you effect you are grand. It's why ork players hate it cos it can take out the big mek so long as it can see any part of him or so long as it can clip an ork boy and then catch the out of sight Mek.

How exactly are you targeting the flying MC if it cannot be effected? I don't have my book with me, but if you cannot shoot it as a valid target, it cannot be the starting point for your jotww. It must be something that you can hit for the power to then proceed on further. Likewise, you can't target a necron flyer just to draw a line past him to other models. First model must be valid target.

 merlin96 wrote:
How exactly are you targeting the flying MC if it cannot be effected? I don't have my book with me, but if you cannot shoot it as a valid target, it cannot be the starting point for your jotww. It must be something that you can hit for the power to then proceed on further. Likewise, you can't target a necron flyer just to draw a line past him to other models. First model must be valid target.

You can drop the line over the base of a FMC or Flyer, so long as you can draw line of sight to something you can effect.
What you cannot do is target a model you cannot see, eg a character hidden behind a wall as the first model to be effected by the power.

leohart wrote:
I used Jaws of the World Wolf against some Biovores. Unfortunately, right in front of the Biovores is a flying Hive Tyrant. Would this mean JotWW still affects the Biovore even though the target of the psychic power (the Hive Tyrant) cannot be affected?

Yes, Jaws affects every target under the line. The exception here is that the FMC is unaffected(assuming it is in Swoop mode).

Edited out error..

Nope the first model effected is the target and can Deny the witch.

That is true, I just misread that.

Since the FMC is not affected, he would not make a Deny the Witch roll. The first Biovore group that is affected would have to do so. Is that correct?

Yes.

If the first model you are trying to target is a flyer or FMC in swoop mode you cannot shoot it with JOTWW. Since JOTWW does not hit using a BS, and therefore cannot snap-shot, it cannot shoot the flyer or FMC that is in swoop mode. So since you are not allowed to hit this model with JOTWW you cannot use it as a means to draw your line to something else that is out of your line of sight.

The OP stated that the tyrant was the target. If this was was indeed his intentional target, it was in error. You must also target a model that you have LOS with. If however the tyrant just happened to be where the line was, either before or after the valid first target, it still would not be affected (FAQ). And then only the first valid target would take the deny the witch roll.

Hope that made sense.

In the OP the target was the biovore going by the faq and what he said. Just like shooting at the biovore with a normal weapon you may aim at whatever you want that you can draw sight to. Your first paragraph has no bearing on the OP.

You just drop the line and then see what the target is after you drop the line. I can clip a dread base, a fmc base, a flyer base and anything else the power doesn't effect so long as I clip a model that I can effect and draw line of sight to.

 liturgies of blood wrote:
No, the target is the first model that you can draw line of sight to that you can effect.
.

This is not quite accurate.

Lets ignore flyers and FMCs for now.

The first model the line passes through is the target. Thus if the first model is out of LoS (for example), then you cannot cast JotWW along that line. You must be able to target the first model effected.


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Since it does not affect a Flyer, the Biovore would be the first affected, and the RP would need LoS to the Biovore.

Q: Does Jaws of the World Wolf require line of sight? Does it ignore terrain that blocks line of sight (i.e., impassable terrain)? (p37)

A: As a psychic shooting attack, Jaws of the World Wolf requires line of sight. The Rune Priest must have line of sight to the first model that the power affects – in effect he is treated as the target model; the power just happens to hit everybody else on its way through!


Thats the relevant FAQ for that.

The FAQ indicates that nothing will "block" JotWW, even models that it will not affect, as long as the first model it affects is within LoS.

So a flyer will not block JotWW.

I don't think that the flyer/FMC blocking the power was the issue. My point of view is that you cannot designate the flyer/FMC as the first target, since it cannot be shot at with JoTWW, and thus is an invalid target, just so that you can draw the line to something else that is out of sight. No matter what though, JoTWW cannot touch the flyer/FMC in swoop mode.

There is only one target, that is the first model effected by jotww in line of sight. That is impossibly clear.

Secondly using an invalid target to attempt to hit a model out of line of sight has nothing to do with the OP.
While it is a valid issue that needs to be pointed out, there are enough haters out there to jump up and down if someone uses the power improperly.

leohart wrote:
Would this mean JotWW still affects the Biovore even though the target of the psychic power (the Hive Tyrant) cannot be affected?

Exactly why I made all the above argument, to be sure that people do not try and misuse JoTWW. The way the OP stated the above, it made it sound like the Hive Tyrant was the target.

 liturgies of blood wrote:
There is only one target, that is the first model effected by jotww in line of sight. That is impossibly clear.

You are still not stating it correctly.

The target is the first model that could be effected; period. That model has to be in LoS, or else you can't 'shoot' it in that direction.

How is that different from what I said?

Assuming all models can be effected...

You are saying it is the first model that is in LoS.
Thus, if you hit a bunch of gaunts, and the first is out of LoS, and the second is in LoS, it works.


The rules say that it hits all the models, and the first has to be in LoS or it doesn't work.

I don't think that can happen as you put it but assuming it can, sure that could be a potential problem and would be a failed casting.
Though since you don't choose the target until after you drop the line, what stops you treating it like a template weapon and moving it around until you do get a valid target?

It can easily happen. But it is easy to get around, just as you say. Move the line a bit.

I was just correcting your statement.

The first model is the target, and must be in LoS.

Not: The first model in LoS is the target.

There is a difference, and if they are trying to effect a specific model, it may stop them from getting it.