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If a Psyker attacks a brood of 3 Carnifex, and scores 4 wounds. If he activates his Force weapon, how many Carnifex die? And why?

3. But again, one is a number of instant death wounds given out as opposed to A model taking A test when it suffers one or more wounds

One more reason to leave 'Nids in the closet collecting dust I guess.

Yup, you have to spread the Instant Death wounds around one at a time; can't drop them all on one doomed 'fex.

That said, that isn't (much, if any) different from how instant death has worked for a good long while now.

What pg dose it say you do insta deaths wounds 1 at a time because I remember reading it?

You allocate a wound to the nearest model in cc, he dies, allocate the next wound, etc etc.

In 5E (or was it 4E) a psyker was only able to kill one model from a force weapon.

coredump wrote:
In 5E (or was it 4E) a psyker was only able to kill one model from a force weapon.

True, but this rule changed for 6th edition. "If a Psyker inflicts one or more unsaved wounds with a Force weapon, he may immediately choose to activate it... if the test is passed, all unsaved Wounds inflicted by the Force weapon that turn have the Instant Death special rule."

Yes, I know. Which is why I said "In 5E (or was it 4E)..." And *didn't* say "In 6E...."

In 5th ed the 'force weapons' rules-text said 'any one opponent', so that is probably the legacy rule you were referring to.

Yeah, force got changed to be more like GK force weapons(which did cause every wound to cause ID)

Short story, don't let a psyker with FW get into melee with multiple multi-wound models that lack EW.

I've yet to run into an opponent who uses Force weapons (not counting GKs). For some reason they hate dealing with my Farseers and Nids...

There's an argument that you allocate wounds before activating a force weapon. So, inflicting 4 wounds would kill 1 Carnifex, as it's allocated before force weapons activate. 5 wounds would kill two with a successful check. This is the way I play it personally, as if you were to allocate the wounds 1 at a time to each carnifex, but then fail the check, you would have illegally allocated. I am a Tyranids player though, and I use the same ruling when rolling for Boneswords.

Sadly that argument is incorrect: The listed time-frame for the 'Force' property to be activated is immediately after one or more unsaved wounds is inflicted. (which can be before any subsequent unsaved wounds are inflicted 'and' before any of them are 'allocated'.)

Force:
"...If a Psyker inflicts one or more unsaved Wounds with a Force weapon, he can immediately choose to activate it..."

Basically, you 'inflict' wounds during the 'Rolling to Wound' sub-phase, which is before you 'allocate' them during the 'Allocate Wounds' sub-phase.

 Neorealist wrote:
Sadly that argument is incorrect: The listed time-frame for the 'Force' property to be activated is immediately after one or more unsaved wounds is inflicted. (which can be before any subsequent unsaved wounds are inflicted 'and' before any of them are 'allocated'.)
Force:
"...If a Psyker inflicts one or more unsaved Wounds with a Force weapon, he can immediately choose to activate it..."
Basically, you 'inflict' wounds during the 'Rolling to Wound' sub-phase, which is before you 'allocate' them during the 'Allocate Wounds' sub-phase.

And it wouldn't matter even if Force weapon activation happened during 'Allocate Wounds' sub-phase, because the wounds are allocated one at time anyway. So yes, 3 unsaved Force Weapon wounds against brood of 3 Carnifexes equals 3 dead Carnifexes.

This is how i do it. Since you activate force weapons after the wounds are made, it wouldn't kill all three of the MCs. I'll make a quick example with greyknights.

Ok, so 5 GKs charge a group of 3 Carnifexs, and cause 5 wounds. Since they are at the same Initiative step all the wounds are done simultaneously which results in the death of one of the carnifexs.(they have 4 wounds right?). The Gks then test for Force weapons. If they pass, the remaining wound kills the second carnifex that suffered a single wound.

However, there is a way to cheat that system.

Lets say you got 5 greyknights and one of those have a halberd(+2 initiative right?). The 5 GKs charge the carnifexs and the guy with the Halberd goes first and causes a single wound. Since a wound was caused, this allows him to activate his Force weapon (and by doing so, the rest of the squad's force weapons). If the test is passed he instant kills a carnifex. After this, if the rest of his squad attack and cause at least 2 wounds, it would kill off both remaining Carnifexs because their force weapons are activated and you allocate the instant deaths.

This may not be the right way of doing it, but that is how i understand it.

Sorry for bad grammar.

callinoid wrote:

This is how i do it. Since you activate force weapons after the wounds are made, it wouldn't kill all three of the MCs. I'll make a quick example with greyknights.

Ok, so 5 GKs charge a group of 3 Carnifexs, and cause 5 wounds. Since they are at the same Initiative step all the wounds are done simultaneously which results in the death of one of the carnifexs.(they have 4 wounds right?). The Gks then test for Force weapons. If they pass, the remaining wound kills the second carnifex that suffered a single wound.

However, there is a way to cheat that system.

Lets say you got 5 greyknights and one of those have a halberd(+2 initiative right?). The 5 GKs charge the carnifexs and the guy with the Halberd goes first and causes a single wound. Since a wound was caused, this allows him to activate his Force weapon (and by doing so, the rest of the squad's force weapons). If the test is passed he instant kills a carnifex. After this, if the rest of his squad attack and cause at least 2 wounds, it would kill off both remaining Carnifexs because their force weapons are activated and you allocate the instant deaths.

This may not be the right way of doing it, but that is how i understand it.

Sorry for bad grammar.

Even if the whole squad attacked at Int.4 every wound would be a dead model. You allocate then save 1 wound at a time. Confusing fast rolling with wound allocation can lead to a point of view where your allocating max wounds to kill a model then moving on before you make saves or get to activate Force.

Yup, there is no way (rules-wise) to assign multiple wounds to something without giving the psyker's player the chance to activate his or her force weapon after (and applicable to) the initial wound.