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Hey guys, I'm new to imperial guard and these two 1,500 lists are what I came up with. I want the list to be fun, but semi-competitive, and tailored to take all comers . Just a heads up... no plasma in either of the lists. Due to fluff reasons my regiment has no access to plasma weapons. Which means no executioners or plasmagunners, the only exception is the plasma pistols on my company commander.

LIST 1

--HQ
-Company Command Squad 260 pts
Company Command Squad + Straken + Carapace Armor + 4x Meltaguns
Chimera + Multilaser + Hull Mounted Heavy Flamer

--Elite
-Stormtrooper Squad 185 pts
Stormtrooper Squad + 2x Meltaguns + 5x Stormtroopers

--Troops
-Infantry Platoon 272 pts
Platoon Command Squad + Boltgun
Infantry Squad + Heavy Bolter
Infantry Squad + Heavy Bolter
Infantry Squad + Heavy Bolter
Infantry Squad + Heavy Bolter
-Infantry Platoon 272 pts
Platoon Command Squad + Boltgun
Infantry Squad + Heavy Bolter
Infantry Squad + Heavy Bolter
Infantry Squad + Heavy Bolter
Infantry Squad + Heavy Bolter

--Heavy Support
-Leman Russ Demolisher 165 pts
Leman Russ Demolisher + Hull Mounted Heavy Bolter
-Leman Russ Demolisher 165 pts
Leman Russ Demolisher + Hull Mounted Heavy Bolter

--Fast Attack
-Vendetta Gunship 130 pts

51 POINTS SPARE

LIST 2

--HQ
-Company Command Squad 195 pts
Company Command Squad + 2x Plasma Pistol + Melta Bombs + Carapace Armor + 4x Meltaguns + Krak Grenades
Chimera + Multilaser + Hull Mounted Heavy Flamer

--Elite
-Stormtrooper Squad 185 pts
Stormtrooper Squad + 2x Meltaguns + 5x Stormtroopers

--Troops
-Infantry Platoon 272 pts
Platoon Command Squad + Boltgun
Infantry Squad + Heavy Bolter
Infantry Squad + Heavy Bolter
Infantry Squad + Heavy Bolter
Infantry Squad + Heavy Bolter
-Infantry Platoon 272 pts
Platoon Command Squad + Boltgun
Infantry Squad + Heavy Bolter
Infantry Squad + Heavy Bolter
Infantry Squad + Heavy Bolter
Infantry Squad + Heavy Bolter
-Heavy Weapons Squad 90 pts
Heavy Weapons Squad + 3x Missile Launchers

--Heavy Support
-Leman Russ Demolisher 165 pts
Leman Russ Demolisher + Hull Mounted Heavy Bolter 165 pts
-Leman Russ Demolisher 165 pts
Leman Russ Demolisher + Hull Mounted Heavy Bolter 165 pts

--Fast Attack
-Vendetta Gunship 130 pts

26 POINTS SPARE
---------------------------------------------------------------------

I'd really appreciate input from people who have experience. Which list should I take? How should I improve them? What units should I drop or add in? How should I spend my remaining points?

Thanks in advance.

It's a very workable list. I'm not a fan of carapace armor, since it's no better than most cover and there's a lot of AP4 weapons out there.

What draws you to the Stormtroopers? I don't tend to use them, but they have their purposes.

Not sure you'll get a lot of use out of your HWS. The points might be better going toward a couple of Chimeras for your PCS.

Shameless bump. I need help guys

I personally don't like heavy bolters in blobs, they don't really benefit from any orders. Autocannons are more flexible as they can target infantry and light vehicles effectively. HWSs are incredibly flimsy, I suggest dropping them.
As a guy once told me on dakka, in the CCS get either carapace armor or a chimera, not both. I'm not a fan of Straken, but that's purely a fluff decision for me, I haven't really thought about it tactics-wise.

If you can, lose the HB in each squad and replace with ML. They can still add to anti-personnel flashlight fire but also give you some much needed anti-tank.

I think I would lose the stormtroopes fo a veteran squad to go in the vendetta. Arm it with plasma rifles... Do a compare.

20 Hot shots... 10 hit 3 wound
6 Plasma Shots 4 hit 3+ wound. Plus S7 means you can take out MCs and AP2 means you can take out terminators.

OTOH if you love stormtroopers. Get two squads of them and lose the valkrie (much weaker) but then you would have 20 tough to kill stormtroopers that might just affect a single SM squad.

@ Ghastli

I'm thinking about not running the straken list. He is too many points for what he does, especially after the nerf to furious charge, and the changes to assault + challenges in 6th.

Carapace and chimera to vastly increase their survivability. Warlords give KP, along with being a very killy squad in itself, I want to make sure these guys are protected and am not afraid of spending points to do so. More chimeras are always a good thing .

Yes autocannons are great weapons, but I'm not sure they are good for what I want my infantry squads to do. My infantry are supposed to be anti-infantry, I'm leaving anti-vehicle to other things in my list. heavy bolters are far superior for putting wounds on GEQ/MEQ then autocannons, and only marginally worse at putting wounds on MCs. If I'm shooting at light vehicles those lasgun shots are wasted. Although ability to penetrate AV 12 and 12" of extra range are nice, I don't think they make up for the loss of infantry killing potential, and if worst comes to worst I can always shoot at the sides/back of light vehicles to get a penetrating hit with a heavy bolter.

Although I think I will take your advice and drop the HWS.

@DAaddict

ML in line squads... interesting... The math hammer is always a bit circumstantial with blast weapons, but assuming 2 hits a shot with a frag missile (not unreasonable assuming the enemy spreads his models/scatter) that's only 2/3 the infantry killing power of a heavy bolter. Although being able to do both anti-infantry and anti-vehicle with my infantry squad is an appealing prospect, Heavy bolters do anti-infantry better, and autocannons do anti-vehicle better, and both are cheaper then the missile launcher. If I was guaranteed three hits a turn with a frag missile then I would definite take those missile launchers, but I just don't see it happening, unless someone else who has experience with missile launchers can back this up.

No plasma in my army except CCS pistols.

Your math is off on stormtroopers, they are BS 4 and have two meltaguns.

For a 66% chance to come in on turn 2 (veterans have to wait until turn 3 AT LEAST), and infiltrate/outflank if the situation demands it, or reroll scatter so they get to where they need to be, and AP 3 on ALL of their guns. I pay 55 points, 3 inches of double tap range and 6 inches of single shot, and a meltagun slot.

Worth it IMO. Also, the flyer in my list is a Vendetta not a Valkyrie.

Say you're facing a mech list of any race and you get the first turn. They have nothing but vehicles on the table since you're going first. If you can luckily pop two vehicles with the short-ranged demolishers (which is the only AT you have that might reach turn one), your "anti infantry" blobs are out of effective weapon range with the flashlights and only get the heavy bolter shots. Granted, it's twelve S5 shots.

Instead, imagine you have autocannons. You use the demolishers and "Bring it down" on the blobs to destroy more vehicles and create a lot of infantry targets. Then you use lasguns and the autocannons to attack infantry. I understand that heavy bolters are better suited to anti infantry, but I suggest autocannons for their versatility. On top of that, they are the same points cost.

Another reason to get autocannons: What if your vendetta gets destroyed and the enemy still has flyer(s)? Use bring it down with autocannons and, presto, you have backup air defense.

REVISED LIST--------

--HQ
-Company Command Squad 195 pts
Company Command Squad + 2x Plasma Pistol + Melta Bombs + Carapace Armor + 4x Meltaguns + Krak Grenades
Chimera + Multilaser + Hull Mounted Heavy Flamer

--Elite
-Stormtrooper Squad 105 pts
Stormtrooper Squad + 2x Meltaguns

--Troops
-Infantry Platoon 272 pts
Platoon Command Squad + Boltgun
Infantry Squad + Autocannon
Infantry Squad + Autocannon
Infantry Squad + Autocannon
Infantry Squad + Autocannon
-Infantry Platoon 272 pts
Platoon Command Squad + Boltgun
Infantry Squad + Autocannon
Infantry Squad + Autocannon
Infantry Squad + Autocannon
Infantry Squad + Autocannon

--Heavy Support
-Leman Russ Demolisher 165 pts
Leman Russ Demolisher + Hull Mounted Heavy Flamer
-Leman Russ Demolisher 165 pts
Leman Russ Demolisher + Hull Mounted Heavy Flamer

--Fast Attack
-Vendetta Gunship 130 pts

TOTAL: 1304 pts
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Any suggestions for what I should spend my last 200 points on? I think I might need more anti-infantry, someone sugggested putting the PCSs in chimeras to increase their staying power, and add some more dakka as well as provide more targets for the enemy's AT troops. I might just do that but I want to hear from what other people found effective when playing the game.

EDIT: Corrected improper points tally.

I would add 4x Flamers to the PCSs.

I would drop the CCS meltas, melta bomb, krak, Chimera and carapace armor. Add Camo cloaks, Las Cannon, Master of ordnance, and an Aegis Defense line with Quad gun.

I would also add either a 2nd 5 man 2 melta Stormtroopers squad, or a 2nd Vendetta. The 2nd Vendetta is likely better, but you seem to be leaning towards an Infantry theme.

Also consider dropping the Stormtroopers for a Vet Squad with Harker, Demolition Doctrine, and 3x meltas. They can be fun


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, your math seems to be off on your Infantry Platoon points costs

foolishmortal wrote:
I would add 4x Flamers to the PCSs.

I would drop the CCS meltas, melta bomb, krak, Chimera and carapace armor. Add Camo cloaks, Las Cannon, Master of ordnance, and an Aegis Defense line with Quad gun.

I would also add either a 2nd 5 man 2 melta Stormtroopers squad, or a 2nd Vendetta. The 2nd Vendetta is likely better, but you seem to be leaning towards an Infantry theme.

Also consider dropping the Stormtroopers for a Vet Squad with Harker, Demolition Doctrine, and 3x meltas. They can be fun


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, your math seems to be off on your Infantry Platoon points costs

I considered flamers on PCS, but realized that a 5 man t3 5+ squad isn't going to get close enough to use them unless they were deployed in chmeras or vendettas, and vendettas mean the platoon leader's orders are going to waste.

CCS is BS 4, why waste that? It's rule of cool to have a killy HQ squad anyway. No way am I just gonna let them sit back and shout orders when an enemy can drop a pie plate on them, get a free KP and half my order count in one attack. Chimera and carapace is a must for their protection.

Another vendetta/stormtrooper squad? I think I got anti-tank covered, (CCS, stormies, 2x demolisher, vendetta +infantry squads for light vehicles). What I feel this list is lacking in is anti-infantry.

Harker? Overpriced IMO when stormtroopers do the same thing, only more reliably and cheaper.

I considered taking an aegis line, but this list isn't a gunline believe it or not. Short range on the demolishers and lack of long range anti-tank make this list a sort of "human wave" with vehicle support. I'm going to have to be moving forward and securing objectives, not sitting back, shooting and hoping to table opponents. If I wanted that playstyle I'd run manticores and lascannons or play tau. Also, a quadgun is a HUGE waste of points for guard, especially if the enemy ends up not running flyers. Krak missiles/autocannons with "Bring it Down!" do the same thing for a fraction on the cost, plus they can move and fire with no penalty to BS.

Not trying to sound condescending, I appreciate your input.

trollimus_maximus wrote:


I considered flamers on PCS, but realized that a 5 man t3 5+ squad isn't going to get close enough to use them unless they were deployed in chmeras or vendettas, and vendettas mean the platoon leader's orders are going to waste.

Why not put them in a vend/valk? If not, let them hide and pop them out when the enemy gets close. Great way to protect tanks against scarabs or your infantry against assault. I use them as a deep-striking denial/clearance unit and they're very effective.

CCS is BS 4, why waste that? It's rule of cool to have a killy HQ squad anyway. No way am I just gonna let them sit back and shout orders when an enemy can drop a pie plate on them, get a free KP and half my order count in one attack. Chimera and carapace is a must for their protection.

chimera or carapase

Another vendetta/stormtrooper squad? I think I got anti-tank covered, (CCS, stormies, 2x demolisher, vendetta +infantry squads for light vehicles). What I feel this list is lacking in is anti-infantry. Also one chimera with meltas isn't going to last long. When I don't see your HQ on the board, I'll focus that down and let the meltas foot slog or sit in a useless position.
demolishers aren't anti-tank. Good luck getting that anywhere near enemy vehicles

Harker? Overpriced IMO when stormtroopers do the same thing, only more reliably and cheaper.
cheaper? Yes. More reliable? No. 2 melta or plasma is not as good as 3. 18" range on their hot-shot guns doesn't make up for it. Vets are better, and scoring

I considered taking an aegis line, but this list isn't a gunline believe it or not. Short range on the demolishers and lack of long range anti-tank make this list a sort of "human wave" with vehicle support. I'm going to have to be moving forward and securing objectives, not sitting back, shooting and hoping to table opponents. If I wanted that playstyle I'd run manticores and lascannons or play tau. Also, a quadgun is a HUGE waste of points for guard, especially if the enemy ends up not running flyers. Krak missiles/autocannons with "Bring it Down!" do the same thing for a fraction on the cost, plus they can move and fire with no penalty to BS.
Quadguns are an amazing way to dramatically increase the output of a squad, whilst simultaneously protecting against fliers. It's also a great fire magnet. Bring it down doesn't give you anywhere near the chance of taking a flier out in your shooting phase as skyfire, especially as you can order the squad to "fire on my target" so they reroll cover. Bring it down also doesn't let you destroy a flier before it can even shoot. That said, if you don't have a gun-line element to your army (which I find unlikely as turtling up can be effective against CC armies) don't bother with the ADL/QC.
Not trying to sound condescending, I appreciate your input.

Edit: just noticed you have a HUGE amount of infantry. You need the ADL if you want a chance of those surviving, marines are going to have a field day against them. One chimera for your CCS won't last long. It'll be focussed down by all the anti-transport fire, making your CCS foot slog forward.

Edit 2: Aleis has great points, fill up those special weapons slots. Special weapons are what make guard infantry hit harder than their points cost. You can never, ever rely on lasguns. The naked PCSs should take advantage of weapons too, even if it's just more auto-cannons if you don't want flamers.

the thing with the Flamers isn't that you plan on getting close enough, the point of them is for when your Opponent gets close enough to your lines. And they will no matter how much shooting you have some enamies will get into your lines, and 4 flamer PCS is a great "counter assault"

Also I would add special weapons to your infintry squads personaly even if it's grenade launchers or flamers they are almost always worth the 5 points you spend

Other Major thing I would add is a Regimental Standard, with as many foot troops you have thet will easily pay for it self in keeping units on the table.

But in general it looks good.

I agree with Aleis and Gtriddlelol's above points.

It's possible that you have more fluff restriction in mind that weren't listed in the OP. That's not a wrong/evil/stupid, it's just that you are less likely to get advice you like or agree with.

trollimus_maximus wrote:CCS is BS 4, why waste that? It's rule of cool to have a killy HQ squad anyway. No way am I just gonna let them sit back and shout orders when an enemy can drop a pie plate on them, get a free KP and half my order count in one attack. Chimera and carapace is a must for their protection. With an ADL and Camo Cloaks, they get a 3+ cover save against almost everything. As far as Killy, the CCS has a Quad gun (effectively 2 TL ACs), A lascannon, and an S8 AP3 Barrage Large Blast. Use your orders to either BID or FOMT to make it Killy-er.

Also, a quadgun is a HUGE waste of points for guard, especially if the enemy ends up not running flyers. Krak missiles/autocannons with "Bring it Down!" do the same thing for a fraction on the cost, plus they can move and fire with no penalty to BS. I'm not sure if I'm following you here. The Quad Gun is 50 points, effectively a 5th Ed Hydra which was crazy good at 75 points. 2xIS w/ ACs = 120 points. 3x HWS with AC or ML = 75/90 points. They cannot move and fire at no penalty to BS. They can move and fire at BS1.

for an imperial guard list i have always favoured armour and tanks until 6th edition now i favour speed. without fail i always use 9 vendettas, since they are hover/flyers i keep them in fly mode to keep them safe and also they almost never end up all on the table at the same time so they rarely crash.

i also favour spamming tanks, my 3500 points list has 9 standard russ battle tanks and 9 vendettas then 980 points taken up of veteran squads and a primis psyker as my HQ.

its well rounded but lacking in number.

my advice would be to look more towards armour, there are a lot of options for your heavy supports and everyone has some trouble taking out tanks in a guard list (not including cheesy dark eldar =P)

@Everyone

Thanks for your input!

Looking again at the quad gun, I thought it was skyfire only, and I didn't know it had interceptor too... whoops! I thought it could only snap fire at ground targets, my mistake.

@Griddlelol and aleis

4x flamers in a foot PCS is not going to work. Any horde/assault commander that is smart is going to target priority this unit and wipe them out. Only 5 bodies means it's relatively fragile. One pie plate or one round of bolter fire and it's bye bye flamers, and they will have never had a chance to do their burny thing. It's the same reason I think an autocannon in the PCS is a bad idea as well. The opponent can either shoot at a 10 man infantry squad and chew through models until he gets to the autocannon, or he can shoot at a 5 man squad, get rid of an autocannon and an officer to boot! My strategy is to make my PCSs as low priority as possible so I can give orders all game. FRFSRF and Incoming! are amazing orders.

The only way I see a 4x flamer PCS being viable is in a vendetta, as a suicide deepstriker squad... and that means I'm not giving orders, plus it's unreliable.

Or I may stick a 4x flamer squad in a chimera... increases their survivability, gives them much better range, and more dakka. I'll consider this option.

@chaos wulfen

I'm not doing gunship spam. Not only is it cheesy and unfluffy as hell, but it sucks in-game. How am I supposed to take objectives with no infantry? Hope I roll big guns never tire/scouring?

@ Griddlelol

For my CCS, chimera or carapace not both? If it's carapace only, one pie plate and they all die, I lose my warlord and half my orders, plus footslogging meltaguns don't work. They are already a high priority target for being the warlord and being killy, the last thing I want is to make it this easy for them. Chimera only? What happens when the chimera explodes? What happens when it wrecks, and a very valuable CCS gets boltered down by a combat squad? Carapace lets them survive hits that would wipe normal guardsmen squads and allows them to shoot back. This is especially important as they are carrying meltaguns + warlord. I want these guys protected. Carapace armor won't make them invulnerable, but the enemy has to expend more effort then a few bolt pistols to make sure they stay down.

Demolishers sure are anti-tank. Yes, the range isn't great, but if I deploy all the way forward I can shoot 6" into their deployment zone on the first turn. It won't help against artillery sitting at the back of the enemy's deployment zone, such as a manticore, but that's what the stormtrooper squad is for. If they want to take any objectives they have to enter the range of the demolisher cannons, and with AV 14 front armor, anything short of a meltagun/assault isn't going to do crap. Standard russes SUCK in 6th edition now, due to being heavy and ordinance weapons only getting 2d6 and take highest roll armor pen. They suck at anti-AV14 and they suck at anti-infantry, the only thing they are good at is splattering MEQs and light vehicles, and for that i can take a basilisk for 25 points cheaper that has 3x the range, ability to indirect fire, penetrate AV 14, and +1 strength. DO NOT WANT. Demolishers on the other hand are anti-everything splatcannons. +2 armor saves? BOOM! AV 14? BOOM! Buildings? BOOM! Infantry? BOOM! T5? Insta-death BOOM! The only downside is their short range, but they sort of have to have a downside otherwise they would be OP. I can't take an executioner because of the fluff restrictions on plasma in my regiment, otherwise I would. So I say to my opponents go ahead, stay back with your leman russ in your deployent zone and take potshots at my demolishers, as I laugh when the battle cannon rounds bounce off of my AV 14 front armor.

Harker can't deepstrike, he can only infiltrate. That means 12" at the closest without LOS. That probably means you aren't getting the half range bonus from the meltaguns. Stormtroopers on the other hand can deepstrike behind a vehicle to shoot at rear armor, reroll scatter to reliably land, and 5/6 times its a dead vehicle. All for 105 points. Stormtroopers are certainly more reliable. No thanks on harker. Although I will give you that harker is scoring, I'm not planning on using stormtroopers for that anyway, they are a suicide bomb/harassment unit.

Yes I have a huge amount of infantry. No I think they will be fine without an ADL. Most marine players take 2 tac squads as troop choices right? Even if each tac squad wipes a guardsman squad each turn (which they won't unless they are unfathomably lucky), thats 5 turns of constant shooting to kill all my infantry squads. And that's if my guardsmen stand perfectly still not shooting back, within 12" range on turn 1, out of cover, without going to ground... I literally have more bodies then they have bullets, which IMO is the whole point of playing guard. Nobody can outshoot me, and if they can then I'll just throw so many bodies at them that they can't kill them all before the time limit and I'll contest the objectives.

Which special weapons should I take? Grenade launchers are garbage. Sniper rifles suck in line squads. Meltaguns are too expensive for what they do, for BS 3 on a 5+ model. I can't take plasma due to fluff. The only option I have is flamers in line squads, which I admit I am toying with but still not convinced is a good idea, unless I'm playing against green tide orks, swarm nids, or another foot guard.

About the ADL... +4 cover save sounds sweet, but how am I supposed to use it? I can stick it in my deployment zone, but then I'm just playing a gunline, which doesnt mesh well with demolishers, stormtroopers and a close range shooty CCS. I can stick it further forward near the middle, but what if the enemy is mechanized? I just spent 50 points to give my enemies a +4 cover save . The thought of a +4 cover save to most of my guardsmen makes me giddy, But the change of playstyle/risk that comes with it makes it seem not worth it... I'm still not sure...

You're right about my lone chimera though... it's going to be targeted pretty fast. I hadn't thought of that.

trollimus_maximus wrote:
@Everyone
4x flamers in a foot PCS is not going to work. Any horde/assault commander that is smart is going to target priority this unit and wipe them out. Only 5 bodies means it's relatively fragile. One pie plate or one round of bolter fire and it's bye bye flamers, and they will have never had a chance to do their burny thing. It's the same reason I think an autocannon in the PCS is a bad idea as well. The opponent can either shoot at a 10 man infantry squad and chew through models until he gets to the autocannon, or he can shoot at a 5 man squad, get rid of an autocannon and an officer to boot! My strategy is to make my PCSs as low priority as possible so I can give orders all game. FRFSRF and Incoming! are amazing orders.

The only way I see a 4x flamer PCS being viable is in a vendetta, as a suicide deepstriker squad... and that means I'm not giving orders, plus it's unreliable.

Or I may stick a 4x flamer squad in a chimera... increases their survivability, gives them much better range, and more dakka. I'll consider this option.

False, you can hide them behind tanks, out of LoS or in cover. No one plays on an open board. Plenty of anecdotal evidence to contradict your argument.

@ Griddlelol

For my CCS, chimera or carapace not both? If it's carapace only, one pie plate and they all die, I lose my warlord and half my orders, plus footslogging meltaguns don't work. They are already a high priority target for being the warlord and being killy, the last thing I want is to make it this easy for them. Chimera only? What happens when the chimera explodes? What happens when it wrecks, and a very valuable CCS gets boltered down by a combat squad? Carapace lets them survive hits that would wipe normal guardsmen squads and allows them to shoot back. This is especially important as they are carrying meltaguns + warlord. I want these guys protected. Carapace armor won't make them invulnerable, but the enemy has to expend more effort then a few bolt pistols to make sure they stay down.

You want to protect them, but you put their points cost up to 70pts without including the only chimera in your list or their upgrades. Carapase won't protect them, a chimera won't protect them if you're charging them forward with melta-guns. You're also losing the amazing orders they can give by charging them with melta. If you want to use this tactic, take two CCS units. They're a priority target and their upgrades won't help them. Guardsmen die, you're thinking from a marine perspective here. I'm struggling to think of any game where (if I didn't table the opponent) I've not conceded Slay the Warlord. Even with throwing camo-cloaks, ADL and a ton of infantry to protect them.

Demolishers sure are anti-tank. Yes, the range isn't great, but if I deploy all the way forward I can shoot 6" into their deployment zone on the first turn. It won't help against artillery sitting at the back of the enemy's deployment zone, such as a manticore, but that's what the stormtrooper squad is for. If they want to take any objectives they have to enter the range of the demolisher cannons, and with AV 14 front armor, anything short of a meltagun/assault isn't going to do crap. Standard russes SUCK in 6th edition now, due to being heavy and ordinance weapons only getting 2d6 and take highest roll armor pen. They suck at anti-AV14 and they suck at anti-infantry, the only thing they are good at is splattering MEQs and light vehicles, and for that i can take a basilisk for 25 points cheaper that has 3x the range, ability to indirect fire, penetrate AV 14, and +1 strength. DO NOT WANT. Demolishers on the other hand are anti-everything splatcannons. +2 armor saves? BOOM! AV 14? BOOM! Buildings? BOOM! Infantry? BOOM! T5? Insta-death BOOM! The only downside is their short range, but they sort of have to have a downside otherwise they would be OP. I can't take an executioner because of the fluff restrictions on plasma in my regiment, otherwise I would. So I say to my opponents go ahead, stay back with your leman russ in your deployent zone and take potshots at my demolishers, as I laugh when the battle cannon rounds bounce off of my AV 14 front armor.

Demolishers are one trick pony bullet magnets. Good luck with them. I'm not going to go in depth as to why they're awful.

Harker can't deepstrike, he can only infiltrate. That means 12" at the closest without LOS. That probably means you aren't getting the half range bonus from the meltaguns. Stormtroopers on the other hand can deepstrike behind a vehicle to shoot at rear armor, reroll scatter to reliably land, and 5/6 times its a dead vehicle. All for 105 points. Stormtroopers are certainly more reliable. No thanks on harker. Although I will give you that harker is scoring, I'm not planning on using stormtroopers for that anyway, they are a suicide bomb/harassment unit.

Harker was not meant to be a deep strike alternative. Nor does infliltrate mean 12" without LoS, it means outflanking. Suicide stormies aren't special. Quad cannons everywhere will chew through them. Also they're horribly unreliable for their points cost.

Yes I have a huge amount of infantry. No I think they will be fine without an ADL. Most marine players take 2 tac squads as troop choices right? Even if each tac squad wipes a guardsman squad each turn (which they won't unless they are unfathomably lucky), thats 5 turns of constant shooting to kill all my infantry squads. And that's if my guardsmen stand perfectly still within 12" range on turn 1, out of cover, without going to ground... I literally have more bodies then they have bullets, which IMO is the whole point of playing guard. Nobody can outshoot me, and if they can then I'll just throw so many bodies at them that they can't kill them all before the time limit and I'll contest the objectives.

You're making the assumption that people don't bring template weapons which is plain wrong. You're also making the assumption that they won't just run off the board. Without commissars or a standard, you're going to lose a lot of men to alpha-strike armies.

Which special weapons should I take? Grenade launchers are garbage. Sniper rifles suck in line squads. Meltaguns are too expensive for what they do, for BS 3 on a 5+ model. I can't take plasma due to fluff. The only option I have is flamers in line squads, which I admit I am toying with but still not convinced is a good idea, unless I'm playing green tide orks, swarm nids, or another foot guard.

Flamers if you want to keep cheap. Meltas if you want to do anything. I run meltas and I've never looked back.

About the ADL... +4 cover save sounds sweet, but how am I supposed to use it? I can stick it in my deployment zone, but then I'm just playing a gunline, which doesnt mesh well with demolishers, stormtroopers and a close range shooty CCS. I can stick it further forward near the middle, but what if the enemy is mechanized? I just spent 50 points to give my enemies a +4 cover save . The thought of a +4 cover save to most of my guardsmen makes me giddy, But the change of playstyle/risk that comes with it makes it seem not worth it... I'm still not sure...
With that many troops with heavy weapon points sunk into them, you're kidding yourself if you think you're playing anything other than gun-line guard. Also how is the ADL giving your opponent cover? You can see over it. It just doesn't work like that lol

I've also noticed you seem to be thinking tactically as guard verses guard. Why? Are guard prevalent in your local meta? There are a lot of other things out there that can chew through side/rear armor or get into assault fast. I just don't think your list can deal with them. One chimera also means one search light. I doubt your demolishers are going to shoot at a stealth/shrouded target just to light them up.

 Griddlelol wrote:

I've also noticed you seem to be thinking tactically as guard verses guard. Why? Are guard prevalent in your local meta? There are a lot of other things out there that can chew through side/rear armor or get into assault fast. I just don't think your list can deal with them. One chimera also means one search light. I doubt your demolishers are going to shoot at a stealth/shrouded target just to light them up.

Actually, local meta is shooty marines, shooty orks, shooty grey knights, and a couple of nidzillas. Thanks for pointing out about searchlights though, another weakness.

Never thought of LOSing flamer squads on foot. Still think that if they enemy wants them dead, they are going to die though...

A chimera will protect my CSS if I stick behind infantry for cover save (and smoke), until the last minute where i can dart forward and do drive-by's with meltas... at least that's how I was intending to use them. I've already conceded that a lone chimera is a temping target and am rethinking it.

Demolishers: please tell me why they are bad. They look pretty good to me.

Stormtroopers aren't horribly unreliable. 105 points to 5/6 times destroy an AV 12 or lower vehicle. About 33% to instagib AV 14. They should be making their points back every game and then some unless you are using them wrong.

If footslogging template weapons get close to my infantry I deserve to lose. Deepstriking/mechanized/jetbike template weapons are a different story... If I know they are coming I'll just have to spread to max coherency and hope for the best. Commisars were awesome in 5th edition, they suck in 6th due to the new assault/shooting rules. Still debating about the regimental standard. When I said "wiped" in my example about the two tac squads I was taking into account morale breaking too. I don't care about loosing a lot of men plenty more where they came from. I can lose three squads a turn and still feel comfortable as long as I'm giving back as good as I'm getting.

To me, gunline guard is... Sitting back behind an ADL the entire game not moving your infantry once, having 3 manticores, and just unloading on the opponent hoping to table them, and if you don't you lose. That is not how I want to play this army. If anything, the style I'm going for is similar to shooty orks, without the assaulty bits, just more dakka.

If your opponent gets to a forward placed ADL before you do (like with a mechanized/bike/drop pod list), he gets the cover save... You didn't think it just worked one way did you? Fortification is a fortification, both sides can use it.

Thank you for the time you have spent on your input, it may not seem like it but I really appreciate it. Having my list and ideas behind it challenged makes me rethink things for the better.

My problem with storm troopers is that you're not including the fact that deep strike is unreliable. You're relying on the 50% chance of a hit before you take into account the statistics on destroying anything. It also assumes that people haven't seen deep striking stormies on your list and deployed accordingly. I don't know the rules on this part since I've never had it happen, but if a quad cannon kills 4 of them (not that unlikely depending on the firer and assuming a full unit of 10 to protect them from such eventualities) they should be running before they even get to the shooting phase. This is why I think outflanking is better. It's 66% chance of getting the table edge you want, it does have the downside of not being in range of a tank the turn they come in, but so does deepstrike. Deepstrike can also be flat-out countered by deployment.

Doesn't help that I hate stormies, hellguns are horrible. 18"? I'd rather just have 3 plasma/3melta vets.

Template weapons don't need to get close. Missiles, artillery, psychic powers. Also if you're sitting on an objective, don't be surprised if flamers head your way.

How can an enemy get to an ADL in your deployment zone before you do? I know it works for both sides, but if an enemy gets to it before you do, why did you put it where your troops aren't in it? You can't deploy the ADL anywhere...

Commissars are still good in 6th. I completely disagree that they're poor. You can keep them in the middle of a blob where they just can't be sniped out without ICs or artillery.

Demolisers are 165 points for one shot. You'll never get more out of them, and rarely get that. Having a 30" threat range isn't great. People don't like S:10 Ap:2 Ord. You're right, it's good, people get rid of them fast. If you want a one shot ordnance, take Marbo, he's 100pts less, albeit S:8. He's more likely to hit too!
Also the heavy flamer on them is useless. You can't snap fire templates, and I doubt you're going to ignore the main cannon for the flamer...ever.

Popping smoke won't protect the chimera because it is the only target that is viable for anti-transport weaponry. You might get lucky, you might not. I personally have a lot of anti-transport like a lot of people.

Final point, I love posters like you because you reply with opinions but actually listen or have a coherent counter argument! I hope I'm not coming across as arrogant, I'm just trying to get my points across.

 Griddlelol wrote:
My problem with storm troopers is that you're not including the fact that deep strike is unreliable. You're relying on the 50% chance of a hit before you take into account the statistics on destroying anything. It also assumes that people haven't seen deep striking stormies on your list and deployed accordingly. I don't know the rules on this part since I've never had it happen, but if a quad cannon kills 4 of them (not that unlikely depending on the firer) they should be running before they even get to the shooting phase. This is why I think outflanking is better. It's 66% chance of getting the table edge you want, it does have the downside of not being in range of a tank the turn they come in, but so does deepstrike. Deepstrike can also be flat-out countered by deployment.

Doesn't help that I hate stormies, hellguns are horrible. 18"? I'd rather just have 3 plasma/3melta vets.

Template weapons don't need to get close. Missiles, artillery, psychic powers. Also if you're sitting on an objective, don't be surprised if flamers head your way.

How can an enemy get to an ADL in your deployment zone before you do? I know it works for both sides, but if an enemy gets to it before you do, why did you put it where your troops aren't in it? You can't deploy the ADL anywhere...

Commissars are still good in 6th. I completely disagree that they're poor. You can keep them in the middle of a blob where they just can't be sniped out without ICs or artillery.

Demolisers are 165 points for one shot. You'll never get more out of them, and rarely get that. Having a 30" threat range isn't great. People don't like S:10 Ap:2 Ord. You're right, it's good, people get rid of them fast. If you want a one shot ordnance, take Marbo, he's 100pts less, albeit S:8. He's more likely to hit too!
Also the heavy flamer on them is useless. You can't snap fire templates, and I doubt you're going to ignore the main cannon for the flamer...ever.

Popping smoke won't protect the chimera because it is the only target that is viable for anti-transport weaponry. You might get lucky, you might not. I personally have a lot of anti-transport like a lot of people.

Final point, I love posters like you because you reply with opinions but actually listen or have a coherent counter argument! I hope I'm not coming across as arrogant, I'm just trying to get my points across.

A little arrogant maybe, but you have way more experience than I do so I'm inclined to listen. Hyperbole makes for an excellent argument.

Stormtroopers hit dead on 5/9 of the time, but what you aren't taking into account is sometimes the scatter is low enough to still accomplish the mission. And even when it's not, sometimes you scatter ontop of an enemy (deepstriking that close it's likely) if you get lucky on the mishap table you get to redeploy next turn. All in all, stormtroopers have roughly an 85% chance of coming in where you need them, don't ask me for a source because I don't remember where I read it, but I remember it was from someone reputable about such figures. If they have a quad gun (very few armies do, none in my meta), you should infiltrate or outflank with the stormies, or deepstrike them out of a vendetta and you still get your reroll on scatter! Hellguns aren't horrible. They aren't amazing, but they aren't horrible. They are mathematically 3x as effective as lasguns for killing +3 save units, and twice as effective at kllling 4+. Think of it this way... it's like deepstriking 30 normal guardsmen against marines, except they die 1.5 times as fast. Vets are better then stormies in a lot of ways, but surgical strikes is not one of them. Deepstriking out of a vendetta and they only land 1/3 of the time, and take casualties if they scatter, along with being out of range. They even are likely to be destroyed completely! They can't infiltrate, they can't outflank unless they take harker. They are poor alpha strikers unless you put them in chimeras...

I've already said I'm not a fan of the ADL in my deployment zone... If I'm in my deployment zone I'm not claiming objectives, and am therefore losing. What if I come up against a more gunlinier gunline? My strategy with that ADL is shot to peices. But... +4 cover save for my troops and a +2 GTG.... sounds so good...

Sure commissars can stay in the back once the shooting starts, but that's not very heroic... ANY character can snipe on 6s, not just ICs, and if the blob gets assaulted guess who has to Pile In first because hes a character! YEP! p 63 BRB
Plus the comissar isn't an IC so his Lookout Sir! rolls are only on a 4+.

As for demolishers AV 14 is nothing to sneeze at, unless they have artillery or alpha strike melta they aren't even scratching the paint. Any hull gun on them is useless, a heavy bolter can only snapfire on a demolisher, and if I lose the main gun I'd rather have a heavy flamer to fall back on then a useless HB. Plus if 4+ save units get too close the heavy flamer might actually be a better option then the demolisher cannon for flushing out said infantry, especially if they are in cover or have GTG.

Again, I'm reconsidering the lone chimera. Or simply adding more for target saturation.

trollimus_maximus wrote:


Stormtroopers hit dead on 5/9 of the time, but what you aren't taking into account is sometimes the scatter is low enough to still accomplish the mission. And even when it's not, sometimes you scatter ontop of an enemy (deepstriking that close it's likely) if you get lucky on the mishap table you get to redeploy next turn. All in all, stormtroopers have roughly an 85% chance of coming in where you need them, don't ask me for a source because I don't remember where I read it, but I remember it was from someone reputable about such figures. If they have a quad gun (very few armies do, none in my meta), you should infiltrate or outflank with the stormies, or deepstrike them out of a vendetta and you still get your reroll on scatter! Hellguns aren't horrible. They aren't amazing, but they aren't horrible. They are mathematically 3x as effective as lasguns for killing +3 save units, and twice as effective at kllling 4+. Think of it this way... it's like deepstriking 30 normal guardsmen against marines, except they die 1.5 times as fast. Vets are better then stormies in a lot of ways, but surgical strikes is not one of them. Deepstriking out of a vendetta and they only land 1/3 of the time, and take casualties if they scatter, along with being out of range. They even are likely to be destroyed completely! They can't infiltrate, they can't outflank unless they take harker. They are poor alpha strikers unless you put them in chimeras...

This is more of a strategy thread. I'm still against a suicide storm trooper points sink. Your math keeps making assumptions on the enemy deploying in such a way that you can deep strike near your target. Anyway looks like you're never going to change your mind on these.

I've already said I'm not a fan of the ADL in my deployment zone... If I'm in my deployment zone I'm not claiming objectives, and am therefore losing. What if I come up against a more gunlinier gunline? My strategy with that ADL is shot to peices. But... +4 cover save for my troops and a +2 GTG.... sounds so good...

This is wrong. Sorry, but you don't need to be on an objective from turn 1 to claim it. I sit a small gunline (around 33% of my points) behind an ADL for rear objective capture on the 5th turn. It works really well, they absorb shooting like terminators and dish out a lot of punishment. You wouldn't have to put all your PISs behind it, maybe just a section to allow for a small gun-line. Your guard don't exactly have manoeuvrability and so bringing their heavy weapons to bear will require them sitting still.
You have myriad troops who are just too squishy to live without it. Food guard is dead. You can look up Hand of the King batreps for great examples, or you can experience your guard dying by the droves. You've mentioned that bolter fire can't take them down, but basic marines will beat you in combat and just sweep. No commissars means no tarpits.

Sure commissars can stay in the back once the shooting starts, but that's not very heroic... ANY character can snipe on 6s, not just ICs, and if the blob gets assaulted guess who has to Pile In first because hes a character! YEP! p 63 BRB
Plus the comissar isn't an IC so his Lookout Sir! rolls are only on a 4+.

Make sure he's not 3" from the line of assault. Not a complex strategy. You're looking at the bad things about the commissar without realising that you're guard are going to be running all day. I don't see how commissars have to be heroic ever. In fact they are the least heroic, shooting your own men? That's considered heroism? They're there to lead by fear, not by acts of greatness, leave that to the space marines.

As for demolishers AV 14 is nothing to sneeze at, unless they have artillery or alpha strike melta they aren't even scratching the paint. Any hull gun on them is useless, a heavy bolter can only snapfire on a demolisher, and if I lose the main gun I'd rather have a heavy flamer to fall back on then a useless HB. Plus if 4+ save units get too close the heavy flamer might actually be a better option then the demolisher cannon for flushing out said infantry, especially if they are in cover or have GTG.

AV11 on the back disagrees with you. A lot of people have deep striking armies, or even a small deep striking portion. Most people would reconsider deep striking behind tanks with a load of guard looking at them, but the fact that these two tanks are your only AP2/3 means marines are going to do it and come out smiling. Remember you can only have a 30" threat range. It's difficult to get a shot off on the 1st turn since you probably won't be in range if you deploy 1st (any one who's seen a demolisher before will deploy just out of range or move out of the 30") and if you do get the 1st turn, there's 50% chance it's going to be night fighting. There's also the small chance of getting immobilised on your way there, which leaves 165 points sitting around doing nothing (which has happened to me once -_- ) Again this is another point that I don't think I'm going to convince you on, since you seem to think demolishers are amazing on paper, but until you play test them, you'll see they drop fast unless you're fighting an unprepared opponent or a child.

Again, I'm reconsidering the lone chimera. Or simply adding more for target saturation
Saturation is key to using chimeras. Your army will be a non-standard mech if you take them, but in my opinion a lot stronger.

@ Griddlelol

Agree to disagree on stormtroopers. I've seen firsthand how effective they can be.

Footslogging guard has to move out first turn in order to claim an objective in their opponent's deployment zone, and turn 2-3 in order to claim an objective in no-man's land. Having all of my troops behind an ADL is out of the question, but I may be able to do a small firebase type of thing. You convinced me, I'm reconsidering.

It doesn't matter if the commissar is more then 3" away from the front, he has to move as fast as he can toward the melee as soon as he is able every pile in phase, before everyone else except other characters. If he is closer then 2" away from enemy models he can take wounds, and any precision wound are sure as hell going onto him. Have you ever read any of the black library books? Commissars certainly are heroic, and lead by example and if that isn't enough, summary execution is, although if it has come to that the regiment's morale is in dire straits indeed. I see summary execution as a punishment and as a motivator, a commissar doesn't start shooting random guardsmen (in fact, in the books those that do are considered abusing their authority, see Gaunt's Ghosts and Ciaphas Cain). They shoot the cowards as a way of punishing them, and as a way of letting the other guardsmen know that running away is not an option, they can either fight and have a small chance of survival, or run away and have 100% chance of dying, but like I said it usually doesn't come to that.

Arguing about the merits of fascism in a universe where everything is so fethed up that a theocratic nazi government is considered the good guys aside...

Those demolishers aren't my only ap 2. I have the vendetta, and my CCS, plus weight of numbers in lasguns if worst comes to worst (it takes 18 lasguns worth of shooting to down one termie statistically, or 9 for one marine), but I don't see I have much choice in this considering that executioners and plasmaguns are out of the question. What do you suggest for remedying this? Like I said I don't see many options.

I'm reconsidering my list now. I'll post a revised list soon.

trollimus_maximus wrote:
Those demolishers aren't my only ap 2. I have the vendetta, and my CCS, plus weight of numbers in lasguns if worst comes to worst (it takes 18 lasguns worth of shooting to down one termie statistically, or 9 for one marine), but I don't see I have much choice in this considering that executioners and plasmaguns are out of the question. What do you suggest for remedying this? Like I said I don't see many options.

Dont forget Demo Charges from Marbo, Veteran Demolitons Doctrine, and/or IP SWS. S8 AP2 large blast

But personally I like the LRDemo and/or the IA Thunderer (forge world model, same big gun, 25 points cheaper)

I can't argue with fluff, because honestly that's not my thing.

I've used stormies, and I've seen how easily they just don't do their job. I might give them another go in a later army list, but for now, I'm comfortable with never using them.

It does matter if the commissar is more than 3" away, because his pile in will mean he can't be sniped until his initiative step. That's after most people attack, and occasionally I run mine with a Paxe so it's last.

The single vendetta doesn't count. It's not "ap2" it's a tank hunter. Alone it's not going to get very far either. I'm in the school of thought, where if you can't bring more than one, don't bother. It's just justifying your opponents AA. In my local meta, AA is everywhere and I'm known for taking multiple fliers, pretty amusing when I roll out an armoured fist list and people are running a ton of AA.

Foolishmortal covered the other ap2 options. Although I'd just say bring some plasma.

I wish you luck, and I hope play testing will let you see some of my points from a different light, but it doesn't look like I can change your mind on anything.

I definitely disagree with Griddelol in regards to Storm Troopers. They have NEVER failed me in the times I have taken them, and Ailaros' Hand of the King batrep series demonstrates how good they can be. Even with his routinely atrocious luck, more often than not his Storm Troopers have been the MVP in his battles. So I give full support to trollimus_maximus bringing storm troopers, I know I always do. Also, the rule of cool trumps everything and it sounds like he really likes stormies -- so that's another reason to bring them, you will enjoy your army more that way.

As for Demolisher, I haven't had great success with mine, although I've only brought it a few times. I think this just needs to be playtested.

I've been debating in my mind the same issue over the ADL with either a quad gun or Icarus lascannon as bandied about here. I've yet to use an ADL -- I keep wondering whether it's worth buying one. The only reason I would take it is for AA, but then I've got a blob of guardsmen sitting there instead of advancing. May be better to repurpose them and do a firebase.

@trollimus_maximus -- if you want your footguard advancing, taking objectives, have you considered using Al'Rahem to outflank? Showing up turn 2 or 3 in your opponent's backfied (or the middle if you need to) beats walking there, in my view. I am building my current list around him. He might work for you. I think we have similar styles -- I'm rather a novice when it comes to 6th edition having been away from the hobby since 3rd edition, so I'm basically a new player as well, and I am also trying to build a fluffy army that has no plasma weapons, and play an agressive style. I've adopted more chimeras. I agree that target saturation is necessary. A lone Vendetta may or may not work. Could trade it in for some more chimerae.

 NWansbutter wrote:
I definitely disagree with Griddelol in regards to Storm Troopers. They have NEVER failed me in the times I have taken them, and Ailaros' Hand of the King batrep series demonstrates how good they can be. Even with his routinely atrocious luck, more often than not his Storm Troopers have been the MVP in his battles.

You'll also notice that he brings 30, not just a suicide squad. They also don't always kill the intended target, but due to having 30 guys drop into the opponents' lines, it causes disruption and stops objective claiming. A suicide squad just can't do this.

 Griddlelol wrote:
You'll also notice that he brings 30, not just a suicide squad. They also don't always kill the intended target, but due to having 30 guys drop into the opponents' lines, it causes disruption and stops objective claiming. A suicide squad just can't do this.

30 storm troopers!? Yaaozzas thats a lot. Indeed it would be hard to miss something dropping that many out of the sky. But this does bring up a good point, something that a lot of people don't think of if you can support units that are typically considered suicide then they can become very suvivable. and killy

 Griddlelol wrote:
I can't argue with fluff, because honestly that's not my thing.

I've used stormies, and I've seen how easily they just don't do their job. I might give them another go in a later army list, but for now, I'm comfortable with never using them.

It does matter if the commissar is more than 3" away, because his pile in will mean he can't be sniped until his initiative step. That's after most people attack, and occasionally I run mine with a Paxe so it's last.

The single vendetta doesn't count. It's not "ap2" it's a tank hunter. Alone it's not going to get very far either. I'm in the school of thought, where if you can't bring more than one, don't bother. It's just justifying your opponents AA. In my local meta, AA is everywhere and I'm known for taking multiple fliers, pretty amusing when I roll out an armoured fist list and people are running a ton of AA.

Foolishmortal covered the other ap2 options. Although I'd just say bring some plasma.

I wish you luck, and I hope play testing will let you see some of my points from a different light, but it doesn't look like I can change your mind on anything.

On the contrary, you have changed my mind about everything we discussed, except for the stormies and demolishers. I'm hanging out with friends today, but when I get back tonight I'll post the new full list.

 Griddlelol wrote:

You'll also notice that he brings 30, not just a suicide squad. They also don't always kill the intended target, but due to having 30 guys drop into the opponents' lines, it causes disruption and stops objective claiming. A suicide squad just can't do this.

Re-reading the thread, I see that you were, indeed, just discussing the merits of a 5-man suicide squad. I still disagree with you that they're "horribly unreliable".

I do think that they have the potential to be even better when brought in larger numbers, although I haven't tried it myself.

REVISED LIST--------

--HQ
-Company Command Squad 195 pts
Company Command Squad + 2x Plasma Pistol + Melta Bombs + Carapace Armor + 4x Meltaguns + Krak Grenades
Chimera + Multilaser + Hull Mounted Heavy Flamer

--Elite
-Stormtrooper Squad 105 pts
Stormtrooper Squad + 2x Meltaguns

--Troops
-Infantry Platoon 347 pts
Platoon Command Squad + Boltgun
Chimera + Multilaser + Hull Mounted Heavy Flamer
Infantry Squad + Autocannon + Flamer
Infantry Squad + Autocannon + Flamer
Infantry Squad + Autocannon + Flamer
Infantry Squad + Autocannon + Flamer
-Infantry Platoon 347 pts
Platoon Command Squad + Boltgun
Chimera + Multilaser + Hull Mounted Heavy Flamer
Infantry Squad + Autocannon + Flamer
Infantry Squad + Autocannon + Flamer
Infantry Squad + Autocannon + Flamer
Infantry Squad + Autocannon + Flamer

--Heavy Support
-Leman Russ Demolisher 165 pts
Leman Russ Demolisher + Hull Mounted Heavy Flamer
-Leman Russ Demolisher 165 pts
Leman Russ Demolisher + Hull Mounted Heavy Flamer

--Fast Attack
-Vendetta Gunship 130 pts

Aegis Defense Line 50 pts

TOTAL: 1504 pts
--------------------------------------------------------
Comments or concerns? Should I put my flamers in my PCS or in my line squads?

If your opponent is ok with Imperial Armour units, you might consider running the Demolishers as Thunderers, saving 50 points, allowing you to better equip you PCSs.

The only downside really is that they might play some silly IA unit that is not as relatively balanced as the Thunderer

On the other-other hand, if you and a friend get into an IA unit escalation arms war, IG has deep, deep reserves of crazy on tap