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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/09/25 20:44:40
Subject: IG Allies without Vendettas?
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Regular Dakkanaut
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So I'm building a list(wolves and guard) an I was wondering if you considered it to be gimping myself by not taking vendettas? I know they are undercosted and all that but is it really such a shot in the foot? Because every suggestion I keep getting is moar Valkyries/vendettas...
Link to List in case your interested...
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/30/476791.page#4804734
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/09/25 20:48:16
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/09/25 20:45:31
Subject: Re:IG Allies without Vendettas?
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Ferocious Black Templar Castellan
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No, not really. Wolves have more than enough long-range anti-tank and the Vendetta isn't the only good unit in the IG Codex.
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For thirteen years I had a dog with fur the darkest black. For thirteen years he was my friend, oh how I want him back. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/09/25 21:08:16
Subject: IG Allies without Vendettas?
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Regular Dakkanaut
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Yeah I know we have lots of nice anti tank. I ended up taking guard allies so I can have a Leman Russ Executioner which with all its upgrades I realize costs as much as a land raider and nearly as much as two vendettas...
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/09/25 22:15:00
Subject: Re:IG Allies without Vendettas?
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Douglas Bader
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Sure you can take IG without Vendettas, but the real question is why would you want to take IG allies without Vendettas?
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There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/09/25 22:35:17
Subject: Re:IG Allies without Vendettas?
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Leaping Dog Warrior
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Peregrine wrote:Sure you can take IG without Vendettas, but the real question is why would you want to take IG allies without Vendettas?
swarms. 3 lascannons don't do much against a very large horde.
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MRRF 300pts
Adeptus Custodes: 2250pts |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/09/25 22:35:29
Subject: IG Allies without Vendettas?
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Regular Dakkanaut
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See right there is what im talking about most of the people I talk to see it as a no brainer choice... Am I really missing out on that much?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/09/25 22:42:44
Subject: IG Allies without Vendettas?
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Douglas Bader
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tedbpb wrote:See right there is what im talking about most of the people I talk to see it as a no brainer choice... Am I really missing out on that much?
Yes. The Vendetta is one of the best units in the game. It's excellent AA, it's excellent anti-tank, it can transport troops anywhere on the table, it's more durable than any other flyer, and it's severely undercosted. The Vendetta was awesome in 5th, and in 6th it got flyer rules without a matching point increase.
kestril wrote:swarms. 3 lascannons don't do much against a very large horde.
Yeah, but you don't always play against swarms. Unless you're TFG and list tailoring you're going to want to have more than just anti-horde units in your list.
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There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/09/25 23:11:17
Subject: IG Allies without Vendettas?
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Heroic Senior Officer
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Does it fit your list? Take it then.
But its not a no brainer choice. There are some lists where it may not be a good fit at all.
It's up to you to decide if your list can take advantage of them to their full potential. They are undercosted and they are the best unit in our fast attack slot, but they are by no means mandatory. Plenty of IG armies do just fine without them, despite what internet popular opinion says. And they do have flaws, even if they are minor. They won't be on the table turn one, which means they can't contribute to that all important alpha strike. They will only get a couple of turns of real shooting in if you're lucky before you start overshooting targets thanks to zooming. And if you hover, good job, you have an AV 12 vehicle suspended above the board with no cover save that's lost it's hard to hit status and has lost skyfire. Also, if you plan on using it as a transport, you have to keep in mind that you'll have to forgo shooting by going flat out so the vets can grav chute for a turn. These are all minor complaints yes, but they can be dealbreakers for some.
It's just like how armies can do just fine without a manticore, or leman russes, or meltavets in chimeras. They're all very great units, but none are mandatory. We're lucky that IG is a very strong codex and has multiple choices for where we can get our firepower from. This isn't like tau, where their only choice is battlesuits and thats it.
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'I've played Guard for years, and the best piece of advice is to always utilize the Guard's best special rule: "we roll more dice than you" ' - stormleader
"Sector Imperialis: 25mm and 40mm Round Bases (40+20) 26€ (Including 32 skulls for basing) " GW design philosophy in a nutshell |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/09/25 23:12:32
Subject: IG Allies without Vendettas?
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Leaping Dog Warrior
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Peregrine wrote:
Yeah, but you don't always play against swarms. Unless you're TFG and list tailoring you're going to want to have more than just anti-horde units in your list.
True, but between some lascannon HWS, orders, plasma CC squads, melta-stormtroopers, and bunches of autocannons, I find I don't really need 3 more lascannon shots. I need units that can keep the swarmy stuff off the gunline, There's a lot of ways to go anti-tank besides the vendetta. The vendetta is just a really good option.
It depends on what he's looking for. If it's just anti-tank or a flier, than the vendetta/valkyrie is probably the way to go, but a leman russ will give some backbone to the army, a platoon will grant tons of expendable troops to hold objectives or tarpit the enemy, a manticore will bombard the enemy from afar. There are tons of options in the guard codex, and the vendetta is a good option, but it's far from the only one.
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MRRF 300pts
Adeptus Custodes: 2250pts |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/09/25 23:23:50
Subject: Re:IG Allies without Vendettas?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Taking imperial guard allies without vendettas would be like going to a nudie bar that doesn't serve alcohol and the girls have to wear bikinis.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/09/25 23:27:51
Subject: IG Allies without Vendettas?
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Douglas Bader
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MrMoustaffa wrote:And if you hover, good job, you have an AV 12 vehicle suspended above the board with no cover save that's lost it's hard to hit status and has lost skyfire.
5+ cover actually, since it's now a skimmer that moved. Which is actually better than it got in 5th, so even when you give up flyer status it's still better in every way than it used to be, and it was already one of the best units in the game.
Also, if you plan on using it as a transport, you have to keep in mind that you'll have to forgo shooting by going flat out so the vets can grav chute for a turn.
Not anymore. Latest FAQ updated the rule so that it works any time you move over 6".
It's just like how armies can do just fine without a manticore, or leman russes, or meltavets in chimeras. They're all very great units, but none are mandatory. We're lucky that IG is a very strong codex and has multiple choices for where we can get our firepower from. This isn't like tau, where their only choice is battlesuits and thats it.
The difference is that Manticores, Chimera vets, etc, are all good units but not overpowered ones, and there are good alternatives to each of them. The Vendetta is just completely overpowered and nothing even comes close to doing its job as well as it does. And considering the low cost of getting one the only real reason NOT to take at least one is stubborn refusal to use a "netlist".
(And let's be honest, how many people would still refuse to use Vendettas if the model wasn't so expensive?)
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There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/09/25 23:43:03
Subject: Re:IG Allies without Vendettas?
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Frenzied Juggernaut
The Emperor's Forge Mitten, Earth
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Vendettas aren't necessary, but they are nice. If you're going to bring them, you really don't need more than 1. I used to think the vendetta was the end all be all, then I started to try the basic bare-bones valk, which in and of itself isn't bad. I like to put special weapons squads inside with melta/demo and grav-chute them into combat. It's fun and usually gets the job done. I'll still hold a place in my heart for my vendetta though. It's a fantastic unit, but if I feel my list can get by without it, then I usually don't bother. So basically it's up to you and how well you feel your list can deal with armor barring the vendetta.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/09/26 00:14:41
Subject: Re:IG Allies without Vendettas?
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Regular Dakkanaut
Sweden
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Oh God! I guess this is why I love my "beer and pretzels" crowd, or in our case "coffee and cake". Why is it that the internet crowd simply has to have the "best" and nothing else? If it isn't worth spamming, if it isn't downright broken or if it doesn't make your oppontent weep it isn't worth taking, or?
Has the balanced list really died? What happened to fielding the units that YOU LIKE, that suits your own personal taste or heaven forbid is in line with the main concept of the army? If you WANT to take Vendettas, then go ahead. I am not the one to hand out advice since I am playing SoB and according to the wisdom of the net I have already shot myself in the foot. I actually have IG-allies (since I had one of only two codices that had legal allies from before) and I run a CCS, a Veteran Squad (with only an AC), a Scout Sentinel and a Leman Russ Exterminator. See... IG allies... no Vendetta, no Manticore battery. There is that lost thing of actually playing to have fun and not squeeze every drop of liquid out of the cheese!
Agusto
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/09/26 00:27:34
Subject: IG Allies without Vendettas?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Vendattas are grossly under-costed, and as such I avoid them anyway because I'm not TFG. Not that everyone who uses Vendettas is TFG before I get flamed.
Taking Russes as allies is hit and miss. I suppose a vanilla Russ is always a good deal, but the more expensive varients only really work in a guard list where their AV14 makes them essentially invincable in a mech list, and they can be easily bubble wrapped by blobs on the other end of the spectrum.
On that note, blobs are always great. Lord Commissar with a barebones blob is 250 points, for a 30 man Ld 10 stubborn unit. It will be very difficult to shift them off an objective, if not actually impossible. Add a handful of points for upgrades and you're sorted.
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Unnessesarily extravegant word of the week award goes to jcress410 for this:
jcress wrote:Seem super off topic to complain about epistemology on a thread about tactics. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/09/26 00:28:31
Subject: Re:IG Allies without Vendettas?
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Douglas Bader
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Agusto wrote:Oh God! I guess this is why I love my "beer and pretzels" crowd, or in our case "coffee and cake". Why is it that the internet crowd simply has to have the "best" and nothing else? If it isn't worth spamming, if it isn't downright broken or if it doesn't make your oppontent weep it isn't worth taking, or?
This is the tactics forum, not the fluff forum. It's assumed that every thread here is talking about how to win games, not whether or not an army is "fun" or "fluffy". You know, the things that you can actually discuss, not the things that just come down to "I like X" or "I don't like X" with no further discussion allowed.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/09/26 00:29:02
There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/09/26 00:51:53
Subject: Re:IG Allies without Vendettas?
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Frenzied Juggernaut
The Emperor's Forge Mitten, Earth
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Peregrine wrote:Agusto wrote:Oh God! I guess this is why I love my "beer and pretzels" crowd, or in our case "coffee and cake". Why is it that the internet crowd simply has to have the "best" and nothing else? If it isn't worth spamming, if it isn't downright broken or if it doesn't make your oppontent weep it isn't worth taking, or?
This is the tactics forum, not the fluff forum. It's assumed that every thread here is talking about how to win games, not whether or not an army is "fun" or "fluffy". You know, the things that you can actually discuss, not the things that just come down to "I like X" or "I don't like X" with no further discussion allowed.
You can however discuss the viability and tactics of a fluff list. Discuss their strengths, weaknesses, and so on.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/09/26 00:54:50
Subject: Re:IG Allies without Vendettas?
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Douglas Bader
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WhiteWolf01 wrote:You can however discuss the viability and tactics of a fluff list. Discuss their strengths, weaknesses, and so on.
Except nothing in the OP says they're looking for a list based on specific fluff. Until they say so and clearly state what fluff constraints they are imposing it's pointless to speculate about it.
And no, you can't discuss a "fluff list" in some general sense because everyone has a different idea of what a "fluff list" consists of.
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There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/09/26 01:12:15
Subject: Re:IG Allies without Vendettas?
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Frenzied Juggernaut
The Emperor's Forge Mitten, Earth
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You can if the OP were to define their idea of a fluff list, so that other members can assist with tactics according to the OP's parameters.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
You shouldn't deny the possibility as it discourages others from asking for help on their fluff list(s).
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2012/09/26 01:14:04
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/09/26 01:22:37
Subject: Re:IG Allies without Vendettas?
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Douglas Bader
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WhiteWolf01 wrote:You can if the OP were to define their idea of a fluff list, so that other members can assist with tactics according to the OP's parameters.
Except the OP hasn't, and hasn't given any hint that they want a fluff list as opposed to a list that is intended to win games efficiently.
You shouldn't deny the possibility as it discourages others from asking for help on their fluff list(s).
Of course I should deny the possibility when it's pure speculation. If people want help on their fluff list they need to clearly state that they're asking for a fluff list, and then clearly define what "fluff list" means to them because no two players have the same definition.
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There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/09/26 01:45:06
Subject: Re:IG Allies without Vendettas?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Peregrine wrote:Agusto wrote:Oh God! I guess this is why I love my "beer and pretzels" crowd, or in our case "coffee and cake". Why is it that the internet crowd simply has to have the "best" and nothing else? If it isn't worth spamming, if it isn't downright broken or if it doesn't make your oppontent weep it isn't worth taking, or?
This is the tactics forum, not the fluff forum. It's assumed that every thread here is talking about how to win games, not whether or not an army is "fun" or "fluffy". You know, the things that you can actually discuss, not the things that just come down to "I like X" or "I don't like X" with no further discussion allowed.
Because you're either WAAC or you don't care about winning?
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Unnessesarily extravegant word of the week award goes to jcress410 for this:
jcress wrote:Seem super off topic to complain about epistemology on a thread about tactics. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/09/26 01:56:40
Subject: Re:IG Allies without Vendettas?
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Frenzied Juggernaut
The Emperor's Forge Mitten, Earth
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Either way, we're walking in circles. Yes, the OP has made no note of whether or not he wants a fluff list, that's all fine and good. I was more referring to the generalization that your original response came off as saying fluff tactica didn't belong here in the tactics section.
Going back to the OP. Looking at your list, I would be hesitant to take the leman russ. You've got a big point sink there, and that is really the only armor you'll have on the table as pods are generally not worth shooting at. Your opponent is gonna just lay into that thing with his anti-tank so I wouldn't expect it to last long. The vets look a bit out of place too. They're completely naked so it looks like you just took them so you could get that leman russ, and you plan on having them just sit around in back on an objective. If anything I would at least give the a LC to shot stuff with if you're gonna do that, and either downgrade your tank to spread your points around or switch it out for something else. In this case, I actually would suggest a vendetta. You'll save points for your vets and CCS. You could put your CCS in the vendetta with melta and just grav-chute them as a suicide unit. It wouldn't be unheard of and it'll be nasty when they do hit the ground. As for flyer tactics. If you get first turn and your opponent has fliers, just fly your vendetta off the board (dropping off any dudes if you want). That way your flier is safely in strategic reserve and your opponents should be on the board when you come back in. Sure you loose out on a turn of shooting, but in return you can gut the opponent's fliers or force him to fly off the board as well out of fear.
But there are other options available to you. For instance a punisher tank can be handy, and with its number of shots, it can glance to death the more frail fliers. Exterminator is also pretty cheap and a good all-round tank, or you can take hydras if you're really afraid of fliers. The only thing I see you should really adjust is your allied troops and CCS. They really should have a purpose and some weapons to assist in that purpose. At the moment they look pretty sad with nothing but lasguns. Put that BS4 to use, man!
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This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2012/09/26 02:13:28
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/09/26 02:30:32
Subject: Re:IG Allies without Vendettas?
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Regular Dakkanaut
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WhiteWolf01 wrote:Either way, we're walking in circles. Yes, the OP has made no note of whether or not he wants a fluff list, that's all fine and good. I was more referring to the generalization that your original response came off as saying fluff tactica didn't belong here in the tactics section.
The only thing I see you should really adjust is your allied troops and CCS. They really should have a purpose and some weapons to assist in that purpose. At the moment they look pretty sad with nothing but lasguns. Put that BS4 to use, man!
IM not really going for a "fluff list" I just dont want to be TFG at our local tourney(our TFG takes tau and crons). My main reason for wanting the leman russ is that Ive got one and that I can destroy terminators broadsides or any other 2+ annoying enemies with ease. It is also parked behind my aegis defense line with its camo netting giving it a 3+ cover. Im hoping this will make it survivable.
The reason the vets dont have anything thing is that they are going to crew the quad gun on my ADL and serve and LoS wounds for my rune priest who will be casting prescience on my long fangs. I also feel that paying more points for a plasma or meltagun for a guardsman than one of my space marines is kind of a pain...
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/09/26 03:01:00
Subject: Re:IG Allies without Vendettas?
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Leaping Dog Warrior
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tedbpb wrote:
IM not really going for a "fluff list" I just dont want to be TFG at our local tourney(our TFG takes tau and crons). My main reason for wanting the leman russ is that Ive got one and that I can destroy terminators broadsides or any other 2+ annoying enemies with ease. It is also parked behind my aegis defense line with its camo netting giving it a 3+ cover. Im hoping this will make it survivable.
The reason the vets dont have anything thing is that they are going to crew the quad gun on my ADL and serve and LoS wounds for my rune priest who will be casting prescience on my long fangs. I also feel that paying more points for a plasma or meltagun for a guardsman than one of my space marines is kind of a pain...
I'd recommend it then. It takes a little work to keep it out of the enemy's melta range, but AV 14 at range is super-survivable, especially with 3+ cover. Remember, The executioner (the plasma one) does not have the "gets hot" rule for it's main turret, only the plasma sponsons. In my opinion, the tank is a solid buy for most lists, and I think it does complement your list well. Just keep the tank away from the enemy and it should pull its weight nicely.
If you're veterans are going to be sitting still most of the time, I'd give them a lascannon so they can just sit back and fire away if no air targets are available.
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MRRF 300pts
Adeptus Custodes: 2250pts |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/09/26 03:04:23
Subject: IG Allies without Vendettas?
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Heroic Senior Officer
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at least throw an autocannon on the vets. That's some perfectly good BS 4 there, may as well give em something to do. If you just want cheap meatshields for your runepriest, an infantry platoon is far more efficient at that. Heck, you can buy 20 conscripts for him at 4pts a dude and you'd be set. Buying vets as wounds though just feels wrong to me. But I'm an IG player, so I'm obviously biased.
Also, taking a vendetta does not make you a TFG. What makes you a TFG is abusing rules, being a dick, and making the game unfun for others. I've seen plenty of people have fun games even with nothing but leafblower and longfang spam lists on the table. You can take pretty much anything and still keep the game fun, just be a cool guy and make sure the game is fun for your opponent as well and you'll be golden OP.
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'I've played Guard for years, and the best piece of advice is to always utilize the Guard's best special rule: "we roll more dice than you" ' - stormleader
"Sector Imperialis: 25mm and 40mm Round Bases (40+20) 26€ (Including 32 skulls for basing) " GW design philosophy in a nutshell |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/09/26 10:31:15
Subject: Re:IG Allies without Vendettas?
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Regular Dakkanaut
Sweden
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My apologies, my comments about being TFG or such was NOT towards "tedbpd", the OP, but rather those who tried to convince him to take the Vendetta like Kevlar or Peregrine. I could have made that a lot clearer. It is comments like "Why wouldn't you take them" that grinds my gears. Oh I don't know... They are over powered, under costed, more or less impossible to take down for a balanced list and makes the game a lot less enjoyable? But then again, for some people the win is everything. And I know that the goal of the game is to win, but it should never be the reason to play in the beginning! The reason for playing should be to have fun, and right now... Vendettas aren't really that much fun from the opponents point of view.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/09/26 10:45:02
Subject: Re:IG Allies without Vendettas?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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They are over powered, under costed, more or less impossible to take down for a balanced list and makes the game a lot less enjoyable
being good and undercosted makes a unit not spamable  outside of maybe composition games when is that the true? its a hard to hit 3 lascannon platform that is a flyer. in a shoting edition . people mention aegis line troops , and land tanks . now am not saying they are bad or that I dont use them , because I do , but it is realy a lot more ways to kill a tank or unit behind an aegis line then it is to shot down spamed flyers. people expact an aegis in other lists and take stuff to deal with them and when the chaos dex comes with its EC having salvo sonic blasters[ignore cover] it is going to be a lot tougher for aegis hiden support units. now flyers on the hand will be good till the very end of edition or if GW faqs how they work .
and if someone realy wants to have flyers with anti horde options he can take rocket pods or that exorcist gun FW one, if FW is accepted where he plays.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/09/26 14:02:39
Subject: Re:IG Allies without Vendettas?
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Ferocious Black Templar Castellan
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Agusto wrote:Vendettas aren't really that much fun from my point of view.
Fixed that for you. While I partially agree with your point, please don't assume that you talk for every player in the world, it comes across as a tad arrogant and doesn't help further your argument.
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For thirteen years I had a dog with fur the darkest black. For thirteen years he was my friend, oh how I want him back. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/09/26 15:13:38
Subject: Re:IG Allies without Vendettas?
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Regular Dakkanaut
Sweden
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Perhaps that is why there are so many threads about players looooving the fact that their opponents spam flyers or why most tournaments with comp says it is okay to bring as many flyers as you can fit on the table... Compare the number on threads here, on Warseer, Swedish 40K (since we both seem to be Swedish) or other forums about people having problems with their opponents fliers with the number of threads where they sing their praise. I am NOT speaking for every player in the world and never claimed I did, and about arrogance... well, putting words in my mouth and changing what I wrote...
All I am saying is that right now flyers are over powered when there is no real way of dealing with them apart from list tailoring. But people who are in this to win a game rather than to play a game will use them... and spam them... because they KNOW that their opponents will have a hard time dealing with them.
I am not trying to pick a fight with anybody... quite the opposite actually but what this boils down to is the age old battle between competitive players and the beer and pretzel crowd. If you aim to win, yes, you bring flyers and chuck in Eldrad while you are at it. If you play for fun, then perhaps a list without flyers is more fun, at least that is MY opinion. Or until AA is available outside fortifications or Hydras or selling out and getting a Vendetta of your own.
Allies brought an amazing opportunity to play games that are much more fun and diverse, but it also made it easier for people to strengthen their armies weaknesses and go cherry picking in the other codices. How many players do you see bringing in an Autarch and some guardians instead of Eldrad and some cheap Pathfinders? Just look over at the section for Army lists. People are throwing in Coteaz, Njal and such which again brings me back to the point of people just having to have “the best” or else it isn't worth taking.
What bothers me is that the same people, according to me... personal opinion... not the truth, who start spamming stuff or taking the broken units are often people who are band wagoners. As I said before, I play SoB and C:WH before that and if I ran into a Codex: DH before I used to shake that guys hand and encourage him (or her). Because if you played DH or WH people would start smiling across the table at tournaments (even though the armies were better than their internet status). And lo and behold, out comes C:GK and all of a sudden there must have been a lot of closet Daemon Hunters out there because now you couldn't throw a bolt pistol without hitting one. People are no longer playing armies, they are playing codices and as soon as the newest flavour of the month is in they will do the swap. As many have said... there will most likely be threads about how AA is so broken and how no one can use their flyers any longer in a year or two.
I am NOT saying that there is anything wrong with playing to win and even a WAAC can be a good sport at heart but, and here I generalize, if one side is aiming to win but playing for fun and the other side is both aiming to and playing for the win... well, then fun part kind of dies. But again, that is just my personal opinion AND the reason why I only go to a few tournaments a year.
So, to the OP. IF you WANT to take a Vendetta... do so! Are you going to a competitive tournament, take three of the bad boys! Your opponent is more than likely to have something as nasty or worse. But if you are playing in someones living room and you start seeing the other guy (or girl) wince every time a twin-linked lascannon explodes a vehicle game after game after game... I would advice against it. In the end, we all have free will. It is the choices we make that defines us.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/09/26 15:15:42
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/09/26 17:23:28
Subject: Re:IG Allies without Vendettas?
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Douglas Bader
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And that's your opinion. However, this is the tactics forum, so it's assumed that unless someone says otherwise they're looking for advice on how to win. Like how the OP asked "what am I missing, why is the Vendetta so awesome", not "I want to make a fun list now tell me why Vendettas aren't fun".
All I am saying is that right now flyers are over powered when there is no real way of dealing with them apart from list tailoring. But people who are in this to win a game rather than to play a game will use them... and spam them... because they KNOW that their opponents will have a hard time dealing with them.
How exactly do you go from "the Vendetta is awesome and every IG list should take one" to "spam as many flyers as the FOC will allow"? There's a huge difference between taking 1-2 flyers and filling the FOC with them. Now, you might have a point about the pure spam lists in anything but a tournament game, but if your standard list can't handle 1-2 flyers then it's your fault for taking a 5th edition list in 6th edition.
Or until AA is available outside fortifications or Hydras or selling out and getting a Vendetta of your own.
http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/New_Stuff/IMPERIAL_ARMOUR_AERONAUTICA.html
There. Now every army has flyers and most of them have AA on ground units.
I am NOT saying that there is anything wrong with playing to win and even a WAAC can be a good sport at heart but, and here I generalize, if one side is aiming to win but playing for fun and the other side is both aiming to and playing for the win... well, then fun part kind of dies. But again, that is just my personal opinion AND the reason why I only go to a few tournaments a year.
This is exactly what AlmightyWalrus was talking about: "playing for fun" is an incredibly subjective thing, and the fact that you define "fun" differently from your opponent doesn't mean that all the people playing "spam" and "overpowered" lists aren't having fun. If they weren't having fun they wouldn't bother playing 40k anymore.
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There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/09/26 19:59:42
Subject: Re:IG Allies without Vendettas?
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Ferocious Black Templar Castellan
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Agusto wrote:
So, to the OP. IF you WANT to take a Vendetta... do so! Are you going to a competitive tournament, take three of the bad boys! Your opponent is more than likely to have something as nasty or worse. But if you are playing in someones living room and you start seeing the other guy (or girl) wince every time a twin-linked lascannon explodes a vehicle game after game after game... I would advice against it. In the end, we all have free will. It is the choices we make that defines us.
Well summed up and I think we can all agree on that point.
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For thirteen years I had a dog with fur the darkest black. For thirteen years he was my friend, oh how I want him back. |
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