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Hello all,

In light of all the information being leaked on the new Chaos dex, I've been thinking about the Hellbrute (for the uninitiated, that's the new name for the chaos dreadnought).

Previously, If one were running a dreadnought, you ran as one of three things: a gun platform, a melee engine, or a melta-surprise.
As a gun platform, one would run it with twin autocannons. There is simply no other option for this type of dreadnought.
As a melee engine, you strap on another DCCW (now just power fists) and punch yourself in the face for being dumb enought to try to use a regular dreadnought as a close-combat unit.
As a melta-surprise unit, you give it a multi-melta and pod it in behind enemy lines, and wreck oneone's gak. This last one does not apply to chaos, of course.
So, really, Chaos dreads have one use, and that's as your twin autocannon platform. I know some of you out there have your own special dreadnought that bamf's around with a plasma cannon and a DCCP, or wahtever, but for pure, unadulterated efficiency, this is your best bet.

The problem I have is that with the arrival of the Forgefiend, it seems that Hellbrutes will have no purpose. 8 S:8 shots is better than 4 S:7 TL shots, period, and even better against fliers. You COULD give them the ectoplasm cannons and do somethign different, but for my money I'd rather go with a possessed Vindi for the better armor adn the ability to insta-kill pretty much anything. Plus the large blast midigates the crappy BS.
Anywho, so what do I do with my Hellbrutes? I've got 3 of them, so I'm not content to let them sit out all of my games. Even IF melee dreads weren't terribel, it seems that Maulerfiends will do that better, so that's not an option.

Any ideas?

All the best,

Timff8

An idea might be to wait for the codex?

yeah, I'd wait for the codex.

But given the leaked rules for it, I would say its going to be a ranged unit that keeps some melee potential.


A Khorne hellbrute will actually put out a decent number of attacks. Assuming 2 powerfists it will have the following. 3+D3 attacks base(when outnumbered) and 3+D3+2 attacks on the charge(rage)

So between 4 and 6 attacks base, between 6 and 8 on the charge. Not too shabby.

The Hellbrute can have the ranged power of a Psyflemen dreadnought while keeping its powerfist(butcher cannon) so thats the other option.

Mark of Nurgle will make it pretty resiliant(regenerate HPs and damage results on 5+)

Also I don't think they'd take the same spots in the FOC anyway. Allowing them use with other things you mightn't take as the slots aren't available.

Well, the Hellbrute seems to be elite in the new codex.
After all, its a Dreadnought and lone walkers do not belong to the best units in the game.
I'd keep the Hellbrute for painting purposes and fun games, but its not really a unit for competitive play.

 n0t_u wrote:
Also I don't think they'd take the same spots in the FOC anyway. Allowing them use with other things you mightn't take as the slots aren't available.

but it is not free , so after buying 3x havocks 3x troops the obligatory HQs there is a good chance there is no points for it , specialy if you want to buff your army with fateweaver.

Keep it as a cool looking model? Or attempt a trade maybe? Doubt Id ever use it instead of ______ type thing.

@Makkumba: Fateweaver was FAQed to only buff Daemons, so that's not necessary.

I opened a similar thread on Bolter&Chainsword, and after a day it pretty much boiled down to "use it as a supporting unit for your mans" which is code for "I have no real idea so just have it stand around". What I'm thinking, sadly, is that the only use for it is a a sort of stand-in for a Land Speeder with a MM. Give it MoNurgle and a MM and try to have it do the same thing. It might work not terribly if you can give it an off-hand melta instead of heavy flamer, but it's still far from an efficient use of it. Honestly, Chaos doesn't really have an efficient system for delivering MMs, so this might be it. No Attack Bikes or Speeders really hurt.

I really want to try mine when it comes out, yet I fear it will have the same fate as my Dreadnought in 5th just at shorter range. I gave my Dreadnought the Lascannon so it could sit back and fire (Granted I only took this because I have the Forgeworld World Eater Dreadnought for my army so hell yes I will use it because it looks cool). Now I feel like the Hellbrute will just die quicker than my old Dreadnought did only because smaller range to do something in. Granted 24" is a lot to work with but hell, if your opponent is dedicated it will be killed before it can do much I think.

Don't give him lascannons; predators, Havoks, obliterators and so on do it better.

Love it when the dreadnaught freaks out and fires twice at the closest unit. Never had a problem with it. Always works out good for me. Front line guy for sure in 6th ed.

Well from what i have seen in rumours etc the Hellbrute could be a good Anti-infantry walker.

it looks like you will be able to give it a Powerfist, Thunderhammer or power Scourge.
The scourge looks especially interesting as it is S8, AP2 and Flail (everything in b2b gets -1 to WS).

Give it a flamer and something to pound infantry on the way in...or a second weapons and you coudl be set. Especially since the Crazed special rule appears to have been tweaked more in our favour.

We still dont know if they will have the it Will no Die special rule (where you can regenerate hull points) either.

It seems that the Mark of Nurgle gives an improved version of It will not Die.

Do we know for sure the Hellbrute can take Marks? i dont thing the other Daemon engines can.

others cant , but the brut can take them . not that it makes him good , but it is an option .

All the leaks on the Hellbrute I've seen have shown it having Marks. It is a Dreadnought, not a daemon engine.

MoK was Rage, MoN was regenerate HPs and damage results on 5+, MoS was offensive and defensive grenades, and MoT was +1Str -1AP for template weapons.

in the chaos thread in the New & Rumours forum there is a link to Warseer where soeoen has seen the full unit entry for the Brute.

it's on the last page of the thread so easy to find.

@Praxiss:
The Hellbrute isn't really that good at anti-infantry. Melee walkers, especially, have always sucked at it, and while the Hellbrute looks like (with Rampage and MoK) you can get enough attacks, you still suck, because you can't GET to melee combat fast enough. Walking around, your opponent can walk backwards, or leap up and melta you, because you move no faster than they do. The Maulerfiend is way better for that reason.

Huh, valid point.

i'll still use them as otherwise my 2 Dreads (one fo them being a FW one) are wasted. If the point are fairly low they might be handy in larger games for takign potshots and soaking up damage.

It looks liek my first game with the new 'dex is going to be a 10k apoc game so i will let you knwo how they work.

10K apocalypse? Reavers, baby. Reaver titans all the way.

No reaver unfortunately. although right now our heavy support/big guns section is looking like this:

3 vindicators
3 basilisks
2 dreads/hellbrutes
2 defilers
Warhound titan
brass scorpion
FW brass scorpion
shadowsword
doomdsday device

BOOM!!!!

Ooh, brass scorpions! I like very much. What gun does the Shadowsword carry?

The gun of "Do you have an Invuln save or EW?"

timff8 wrote:
Ooh, brass scorpions! I like very much. What gun does the Shadowsword carry?

My Brass Scorpion tends to work ok, better if you use Flank March. I go with that and my Scorpion as the center of a walker wall (2 Dreads, 2 CC Defilers and the Scorpion - all coming in the my opponents tabel edge).


the Shadowsword is basically a Baneblade Chassis with a S D, Ap2, large Blast cannon on it.

I may be goofy, but I assembled it, painted it, and now I play it.

Seriously, cool it on the Chaos tactics discussions until we get an *actual* codex. Since that will happen this Saturday, maybe we can wait a week?

 SoloFalcon1138 wrote:
I may be goofy, but I assembled it, painted it, and now I play it.

Seriously, cool it on the Chaos tactics discussions until we get an *actual* codex. Since that will happen this Saturday, maybe we can wait a week?

No, we cannot wait a week. We MUST argue and debate untill the actual codex is released, and then we shall continue to argue and debate till the next codex release. When we shall do it all over again

 SoloFalcon1138 wrote:
I may be goofy, but I assembled it, painted it, and now I play it.

Seriously, cool it on the Chaos tactics discussions until we get an *actual* codex. Since that will happen this Saturday, maybe we can wait a week?

We'll discuss tactics in the tactics forum. This is general discussion where we speculate mindlessly for weeks on end until a codex does come out.

If you don't want to read about what people are thinking don't read. That simple. This islike the 5th post where you've made it clear you don't want to speculate.

That's fine man. Just stop bothering those that do want to.

Edit: Ninja'd! CURSE YOU GREY TEMPLAR!!!!

Yes, but Grey Templar's response was better...

I'm more concerned with what to do with the model. It's pretty ugly and doesn't fit the aesthetic of my army at all. I'm thinking of painting it up as Iron Warriors and putting it on ebay. My "Hellbrutes" will be armed with whatever worked on my Dreadnoughts in the last edition, because I don't feel like rebuilding them.

@Solofalcon:
Sorry if our excitement at a new codex was too much for you to handle. I appologize if i caused your monocle to fall into your Earl Grey.

@Calgarspimphand:
The DV 'Brute is meant to be a HIGHLY mutated Hellbrute, and the book says that they vary from that model to essentially angry-looking loyalist dreads, so you can use the rules with a regular dread if you like. I personally think the DV 'Brute looks too odd for a model that's not supposed to have any mark (no, it's not Khorne; the Crimson Slaughter are Undivided).