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So, i was thinking how some builds on DE army just got worse in 6th, specially the so fun to paint and plan "wyches cult". And surprisely, something to fix it comes to my mind, a very simple "special rule" who would make the wyches a good fun army again:

You know the supernatural dodge who give wyches the 4++ in CC? So, if they could use that to dodge well calculated hits from all kinds of super monkeys, why they could not use that to dodge barely aimed shots from those same guys? I mean, just include in the rule that not only the save aplies to Close Combat, but also to wounds caused by overwatch reactions. That way, wyches will have a save against those shooting, enough to trigger the 5+ FnP roll too (whose simple dont exist when your armor is negated by almost every gun in the game).

The Dwarf Wolf wrote:
So, i was thinking how some builds on DE army just got worse in 6th, specially the so fun to paint and plan "wyches cult". And surprisely, something to fix it comes to my mind, a very simple "special rule" who would make the wyches a good fun army again:

You know the supernatural dodge who give wyches the 4++ in CC? So, if they could use that to dodge well calculated hits from all kinds of super monkeys, why they could not use that to dodge barely aimed shots from those same guys? I mean, just include in the rule that not only the save aplies to Close Combat, but also to wounds caused by overwatch reactions. That way, wyches will have a save against those shooting, enough to trigger the 5+ FnP roll too (whose simple dont exist when your armor is negated by almost every gun in the game).

I have always felt the reason GW did not want to buff Wyches anymore (which many people were hoping they would FaQ exactly what you just proposed) is because they do not want an "end all be all" unit. If Wyches were awesome at assault AND had grenades that could kill a LR with ease I think nobody would run anything but them.

As much as I wish for it, it probably wont happen. Farseer is right on the money.

Just slap on a PGL and charge out of cover.

I thought the same, and wondered about making it only when within x" of the unit they're assaulting. Then I realised it'd be stupid to be able to dodge a bullet from a few feet in front of you, but not a missile from a mile away that you only have to side step

I'm all for giving them their save, though equally thinking have a perma 4+ inv is a bit too much (Chaplains have them, and they cost a damn site more than a wych!) Equally, the problem is by giving them an inv vs shooting, they'll be able to survive things that they can't technically dodge, such as the big blast templates of S10 weapons (how do you dodge fire and debris from something that big?!).

It'd be better to increase their save, or give them some kind of holosuit armour save that's only effective vs shooting, a normal save of 4+ for instance. Think of it as a downtuned version of the shadow field...

Hope that all makes sense, it feels as higgldy piggldy as my overly tired brain does!

The Dwarf Wolf wrote:
So, i was thinking how some builds on DE army just got worse in 6th, specially the so fun to paint and plan "wyches cult". And surprisely, something to fix it comes to my mind, a very simple "special rule" who would make the wyches a good fun army again:

You know the supernatural dodge who give wyches the 4++ in CC? So, if they could use that to dodge well calculated hits from all kinds of super monkeys, why they could not use that to dodge barely aimed shots from those same guys? I mean, just include in the rule that not only the save aplies to Close Combat, but also to wounds caused by overwatch reactions. That way, wyches will have a save against those shooting, enough to trigger the 5+ FnP roll too (whose simple dont exist when your armor is negated by almost every gun in the game).

Bullets and other projectiles tend to travel a lot faster than most people can swing a melee attack. There are some people out there with supernatural reflexes and prescience like abilitys that allow them to dodge these insanely fast projectiles. Wyches are not one of these people.

That and Farseer hit it on the head, why use anything else if they get this change? Look at Grey hunters, there is literally no point in taking blood claws over them.

As a fan of wyches I must say overwatch is not really an issue... unless you charge a ton of flamers or maybe a 50 man guardsman blob or something similar. I haven't lost much wyches to overwatch. Once I lost so much that it made a difference but only once so far. Overwatch is not something they need to worry about. Ending their own turn outside of combat is what kills them.

The Dwarf Wolf wrote:
... So, if they could use that to dodge well calculated hits from all kinds of super monkeys, why they could not use that to dodge barely aimed shots from those same guys? I mean, just include in the rule that not only the save aplies to Close Combat, but also to wounds caused by overwatch reactions. That way, wyches will have a save against those shooting, enough to trigger the 5+ FnP roll too (whose simple dont exist when your armor is negated by almost every gun in the game).

You don't need to be able to take an armour save to get your FnP roll in 6th edition. Now FnP is only negated by weapons that cause instant death. So your wyches will have their 5+ FnP unless they are charging Fire Dragons or something.

 NWansbutter wrote:

The Dwarf Wolf wrote:
... So, if they could use that to dodge well calculated hits from all kinds of super monkeys, why they could not use that to dodge barely aimed shots from those same guys? I mean, just include in the rule that not only the save aplies to Close Combat, but also to wounds caused by overwatch reactions. That way, wyches will have a save against those shooting, enough to trigger the 5+ FnP roll too (whose simple dont exist when your armor is negated by almost every gun in the game).

You don't need to be able to take an armour save to get your FnP roll in 6th edition. Now FnP is only negated by weapons that cause instant death. So your wyches will have their 5+ FnP unless they are charging Fire Dragons or something.

Well it wasn't the case in 5th either, it was only negated by AP 2 and 1 shooting attacks and shooting & melee attacks that ignored armour saves (power weapons, lilith somehow managing to shoot you). Just now in 6th its not even negated by that, only attacks that cause instant death.