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So i recently posted about some mecha model alternatives, and il be putting in an order for some of the steel warrior sprues off EM4, however DP9 are doing the heavy gear rules for free, so im probably going to give into the shinyness before long anyway (i admit im weak ><. So for now il be proxying those EM4 models, but am curious (seeing as il be buying a model at a time if i go ahead) how well does Heavy gear blitz work at small TV levels? And how well would this work for a Black Talon force? (Theyr the closest to what i like fluffwise and seem pretty great). Wanting to keep it small as there doesnt seem to be much of a player base, and if i got for small i could try and use it to get demo games going at my FLGS and whatnot (plus i feel guilty paying GW prices for GW stuff, DP9 dont seem much better or am i missing something? moot point though, im a sucker for pretty mecha)

You are asking a lot of questions at once. Give me a try.
1. Price. It depends on how you look at it. Most of the DP9 models are metal and come with a lot of bits. You feel like putting a Lego together. The good things are that the weapon bits are interchangeable. Most players will wait until there is a sale from Dream Pod. Yes, believe me, they come very often. And you just missed the Summer Blitz (>30% off) that ended on September 22nd. The usual TV is 750 to 1000 TV and there is only so much you can include in an army of that size. The total cost will also depend on whether you include infantry or large gear or not. If you take the Black Talon starter set, for example, you can fill up to 1000 TV easily using GU5 values. The most you can do is to add in an infantry squad.
2. Black Talon force does not work well under 750 TV. This is more apparent with the upcoming beta GU5 values. Overall, every army gets a cut in their TV except for BT. For others, there is not an issue at 500 TV. Other than fielding a squad for demo, I do not see anyone playing less than 500 TV.

wildger wrote:
You are asking a lot of questions at once. Give me a try.
1. Price. It depends on how you look at it. Most of the DP9 models are metal and come with a lot of bits. You feel like putting a Lego together. The good things are that the weapon bits are interchangeable. Most players will wait until there is a sale from Dream Pod. Yes, believe me, they come very often. And you just missed the Summer Blitz (>30% off) that ended on September 22nd. The usual TV is 750 to 1000 TV and there is only so much you can include in an army of that size. The total cost will also depend on whether you include infantry or large gear or not. If you take the Black Talon starter set, for example, you can fill up to 1000 TV easily using GU5 values. The most you can do is to add in an infantry squad.
2. Black Talon force does not work well under 750 TV. This is more apparent with the upcoming beta GU5 values. Overall, every army gets a cut in their TV except for BT. For others, there is not an issue at 500 TV. Other than fielding a squad for demo, I do not see anyone playing less than 500 TV.

Heh sorry, i tend to get a bit carried away May wait and keep an eye out till they have a sale then.

Aye was wondering more for the small sizes BECAUSE of doing a demo game or two lol, i noticed looking around that even at 750-1000TV the BT seem to get on average about 6 gears XD just ment small points as in is what my usual group tends to play (even 40k we rarely if ever go above 1k points)

Mostly just thought id get some more info on the BT option before i went buying and sticking and realise too late i got a turkey of a model gamewise.

Question though, on the site im assuming other than those squad boxes, buyin the models seperate would require that upgrade kit for the BT right?

EDIT: just a quick note about less than 500TV, id heard about "lightning matches" or something? 360TV on a 2X4 table with just a killcount objective?

The upgrade kit is used for the dark series. These are the ones you buy from the other armies. There is no need for upgrade for the claw series.

"lightning matches" - I believe that is a quick game to introduce people into HGB. A actual match is to meet the objectives.

Ah i did wonder, id probably end up with (im assuming the claws are the owls and vultures etc) claws anyway, so i was curious about wether id end up needing to stock up on those upgrade kits. Guess if im only needing it for the jaguers and kodiaks its fine then

Yeah i grasped the PL-objective link, its a damned interesting and attractive mechanic tbh

Would have been nice to talk to a BT player first about options, but guess if im waiting for a sale i got time thanks wildger

You probably get a good price by buying online from other retailers. For example, I have seen the BT starter set down to $70. Download Gear Garage for free and play around with various options.

The Lighting is a format Gambit, one of DP9's amazing playtesters/contributors/math wizards came up with. The 'format' gets tuned a bit, but it's intended to be very low point value (I think you mentioned 360tv, which sounds about right) and armies are generally low complexity... It's built so new players can, literally, dive into a tournament.

I think most of the lightning events include pre-painted armies to borrow.

The recommended Demo forces are generally a North & South GP Squad/Cadre. Peace River can swap in easily as well.

wildger wrote:
You probably get a good price by buying online from other retailers. For example, I have seen the BT starter set down to $70. Download Gear Garage for free and play around with various options.

Jesus that sounds a bargain 0.o i was thinking of just buying in packs piecemeal because of the hefty dive in pricetag but

I did get gear garage actually, and the BT on it seems a tad off? Not sure, but it lacks the claw units by the look of it and says the only core stuff i can take is infantry?

 Balance wrote:
The Lighting is a format Gambit, one of DP9's amazing playtesters/contributors/math wizards came up with. The 'format' gets tuned a bit, but it's intended to be very low point value (I think you mentioned 360tv, which sounds about right) and armies are generally low complexity... It's built so new players can, literally, dive into a tournament.

I think most of the lightning events include pre-painted armies to borrow.

The recommended Demo forces are generally a North & South GP Squad/Cadre. Peace River can swap in easily as well.

The lightning format will probably be what i use to entice my groups interest haha got 1 interested in a demo game already and was going to try the free quickstart rules and use the values for the jaguers and hunters from the 2P starter. Id heard theres demo printouts of the models around? For now were just going to proxy some space marines ><

Round up some proxies and have a demo.

The game works at a small scale. However, as has been mentioned, BT do not really work in small games.

Once you have a few demos under your belt, you may want to try proxying other units like strike squads, and tanks.

At that point you should be ready to make a purchase. If you are only going to play 360 points, I would not wait for a sale. One or two units will bring you to that point level, and single boxes usually do not go on sale.

 doc1234 wrote:

I did get gear garage actually, and the BT on it seems a tad off? Not sure, but it lacks the claw units by the look of it and says the only core stuff i can take is infantry?

You only need core units if your force is PL 1 or 2. There is no core unit requirement for PL 3 or 4. The Primary Insertion Team (auxillary) can be turned into a core unit by adding an extra Dark Jaguar but you can on longer upgrade them into the claw series. For BT, there is not that many reasons to play them at PL 1 or 2.

wildger wrote:

 doc1234 wrote:

I did get gear garage actually, and the BT on it seems a tad off? Not sure, but it lacks the claw units by the look of it and says the only core stuff i can take is infantry?

You only need core units if your force is PL 1 or 2. There is no core unit requirement for PL 3 or 4. The Primary Insertion Team (auxillary) can be turned into a core unit by adding an extra Dark Jaguar but you can on longer upgrade them into the claw series. For BT, there is not that many reasons to play them at PL 1 or 2.

Ah thanks for that

so whats a general breakdown of the force as a rough rule of thumb? Im under the impression that the claws are almost always preferable to the darks? Also I dont really seem to hear alot of good about the raptor (too situational aparantly?) or the raven (doesnt pull its weight firepower-wise at less than 1k points?) Though seems like the DarkNaga is a beast just as basic : s

Right had a bit of a fiddle and came up with this. Is only 500TV at PL3, but am having a proxy demo game tomorow, friend seems to like the idea of the game so will see how it goes.

Op Assistance Team -Army Commander
-Owl C3- Upgrade ECM to 2, and added the MRP, LD3
-Vulture -ATT and DEF 3, Swapped the AGM for a HGM (figured would give some versatility with 3 models ><
-Vulture -ATT and DEF 3, HPZF.

Comes to 500TV (figured i could either grab the unit box, or pick up an owl pack and vulture pack, would leave me with an owl then ready for the next unit)

Again, looking round and readaing about the kodiak (il probably pick up the model anyway as i like it ), or at least the vanilla version, it seems that the amount of weapons it has is kinda wasted with 1 activation compared to the vultures 2?

Again thanks ><

Who told you that Raptor is not good? Under GU5, it is possibly the only claw series I would take at 500 TV level. With Veteran upgrade, you can arm him with HBZK.

Raven is possibly the least useful for its point.

Vultures cost way too much especially with GU5. May as well take all Dark series only at 500 TV level.

If you want an opinion about different options at 500 TV, please post at DP9 forum.

wildger wrote:
Who told you that Raptor is not good? Under GU5, it is possibly the only claw series I would take at 500 TV level. With Veteran upgrade, you can arm him with HBZK.

Raven is possibly the least useful for its point.

Vultures cost way too much especially with GU5. May as well take all Dark series only at 500 TV level.

If you want an opinion about different options at 500 TV, please post at DP9 forum.

Lol tried the forum last night, couldnt seem to access it XD thanks tho il keep playing then got me on the right track now

Here's a weird-but-fun Black Talon list I had to sue at GenCon this year (but never got a chance... Too busy workignt he booth and other stuff):

Veteran Mobile Ordnance Elements (Specialist) [Army Command Group] 360TV
Command Dark Naga [3/3/2/4] (26/104 SLHC) LPA HGLC HGL CGL, ArmyCmdr (7 options) 200TV
Dark Naga [3/3/2/2] (26/104 SLHC) LPA HGLC HGL (5 options) 160TV

Mobile Ordnance Elements (Specialist) 150TV
Dark Coyote [3/3/2/2] (25/100 SLHC) LLC APGL MAAC CGL (3 options) 150TV


Veteran Patrol Squad (Specialist) 290TV
Bashan [3/3/3/2] (14/42 LHC) LAC HMG SKG CGL (6 options) 75TV
Bashan [3/3/3/0] (14/42 LHC) LAC SKG (5 options) 55TV
Aphek [3/3/2/0] (16/48 LHC) MAC HMG LRP/24 SKG (2 options) 65TV
Aphek [3/3/2/0] (16/48 LHC) AGM MAC HMG SKG (3 options) 95TV

(Did some cleanup, as this list has been through a few different systems.)

Basically, the BTs are two Dark Nagas and a Dark Coyote. Then add a squad of Caprician Mounts with stealth as backup/spotters... I'm thinking about rebuilding this as 4 Nagas at some point. I really fell in love with the Naga last year!

Haha so we tried the demogame today with the printouts and quickstart rules. Has resulted in us agreeing to pass the rules on to a friend of ours who is usually better at desiphering these things >< man the chatter wasnt kidding when it said its a tough game for newbies 0.o

The main concepts, from memory:

Dice rolling: Roll the number of dice equal to the skill, ignore all but the highest. if you get multiple sixes, add 1 for each additional 6. (So rolling a 6,1,2 is a 6. Rolling 6,6,4 is a 7).

Attacks are basically an Attack skill roll vs. a Defense skill roll, with a bunch of modifiers (weapon accuracy and movement modes being the main ones). So if I attack you, you roll defense ( 6, 2 = 6) and I roll my Attack (5, 1 = 5). Since My attack is lower, I missed. If I rolled higher, we'd get to damage...

Damage is calculated by the MoS (Margin of Success) x the weapon's listed Damage Multiplier.Let's say the Attack is a 7 and the defense a 3. 7-3= 4, or MoS 4. I'd do 4x the weapon's DM (let's use 10, so 40 damage. Compare the damage to the unit's armor value, and do one block for each multiple of the armor value. So, armor 12 takes 3 blocks (one each at 12, 24, and 36).

That doesn't come up if, for example, we're using Anti-Tank Missiles with a much higher DM and improved Accuracy. If the Damage exceeds the model's listed overkill value, it is removed outright.

Indirect Fire and Melee have some spot rules, but that's the core of the how attacks are resolved.

Movement is by inches. Models can choose, when activated, which of three speed 'brackets' to use in any available movement modes. (Most Gears, for example have Walker (legged movement) and Ground (wheeled) movement modes.) You can chose Stopped, Combat, or Top Speed Walker, or Stopped, Combat, or Top Speed Ground. Moving at Top Speed takes ana ction, so for many units, that's their turn.

Each bracket provided a movement allowance (you must move enough to qualify for said bracket) and attack/defense modifiers.These are listed on a chart on the unit's datacard.

Basically, if you're stopped you get a bonus to hit but are vulnerable. Move at top speed and your accuracy is terrible, but you're harder to hit.

I do a better demo in person, admittedly. Visual aids are a big help. Let me know any specific questions.