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Alright so if a nob squad of four upgrades one of its number to be a pain boy can he still be upgraded with a big choppa?

Is he a Nob? No, so you cannot give him Nob upgrades.

IIRC he gives up his normal Nob equipment for what a Painboy has when he upgrades.

Thanks. It was just a little rule dispute between me and my friend.

This is also explicitly addressed in the FAQ. Pain boyz can't get any of the unit's upgrades besides cybork.

Thanks again. I must have had an outdated FAQ when I checked.

 Jidmah wrote:
This is also explicitly addressed in the FAQ. Pain boyz can't get any of the unit's upgrades besides cybork.

this is somewhere between a Blatant lie, and a Gross overstatement.

The FAQ says that the Painboy cannot take Eavy Armor, Boss pole, Ammo runt, or Waagh banner.

The Painboy can still be given a bike and technically you can exchange the Nob-that-will-be-a-painboy's Choppa for a big choppa, but then you will be paying points to "upgrade" that nob without gaining the gear that does anything('urty syringe and Doc's tools; which are given in exchange for the Slugga and Choppa).

OP: Aside from the Strength value of the choppa; the 'Urty syringe is already a poisoned weapon.

But essentially it is thought that since the pain boy is a different unit from a nob then it cannot take any 'nob' upgrades.

Also as all the sentences begin with "any nob may take the following" then surely if he is denied the upgrades after one sentence he should be disallowed from choosing the upgrades on the others?

I've seen many a discussion about whether a Painboy is a Nob or not, however, for clarification of what I am sure of this.

A Painboy is a Nob, however, when this Nob goes through the process of 'becoming a Painboy', he swaps his weapons for the syringe and slugga.
It's what Makes him a Painboy, see?

To be clear though, no, a Painboy cannot take a big choppa, but he is a Nob because he can take Eavy Armour.

The FAQ says he can't take eavy Armour though.

I agree that he is a nob but cannot take any nob upgrades as he is a pain boy therefore a completely different unit.

Actually, correction, he swaps his slugga and choppa for docs tools and syringe.

It's right there at the back of the codex.
Note: I've always played my Painboy with a Slugga though, and I've played many a game and nobody is had a problem with it.
It seems silly to me that he would not have a pistol (And the older Painboy model which I use actually has a pistol).

FYI, I've asked GW managers about this and they have told me that a pistol-armed-Painboy is 100% fine.

Well, its against the actual rules so is only fine if your opponent is happy. Most wouldnt mind, its one more BS2 pistol shot after all.
If you upgrade to a big choppa you cannot swap his choppa for the painboy gear, meaning you cannot upgrade him

 crudcakes wrote:
The FAQ says he can't take eavy Armour though.

I agree that he is a nob but cannot take any nob upgrades as he is a pain boy therefore a completely different unit.

You are correct on this, which also kind of answers your original question anyway...

He is a Nob but cant take the Eavy Armour, Bosspole, Banner or Ammo runt (FAQ).
He also cant take a big choppa because his choppa is replaced (Codex).

I'm getting confused as to why you're asking this question, because you seem to know the answers already...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

nosferatu1001 wrote:
Well, its against the actual rules so is only fine if your opponent is happy. Most wouldnt mind, its one more BS2 pistol shot after all.
If you upgrade to a big choppa you cannot swap his choppa for the painboy gear, meaning you cannot upgrade him

Yeah that's why I made my point that I've clarified it with people each time.
He technically doesn't have a slugga cuz he swapped it out, but it seems silly to me still... so I ask and as I've said 100% of people have been fine with it.

Sorry I had my own idea formulated but my friend always needs a second opinion because he simply does not trust me on rules matters.

 crudcakes wrote:
Sorry I had my own idea formulated but my friend always needs a second opinion because he simply does not trust me on rules matters.

I cant fault you for that I guess...

Just arm yourself with the rulebook and a copy of the FAQ and your friend should be able to see it in black and white.

 plonka2000 wrote:
Yeah that's why I made my point that I've clarified it with people each time.
He technically doesn't have a slugga cuz he swapped it out, but it seems silly to me still... so I ask and as I've said 100% of people have been fine with it.

FYI This would be a house rule, which is fine if you play somewhere that your opponents buy in. In a tourney, it would be a no-go.

Homer

 Homer S wrote:

 plonka2000 wrote:
Yeah that's why I made my point that I've clarified it with people each time.
He technically doesn't have a slugga cuz he swapped it out, but it seems silly to me still... so I ask and as I've said 100% of people have been fine with it.

FYI This would be a house rule, which is fine if you play somewhere that your opponents buy in. In a tourney, it would be a no-go.

Homer

That's pretty obvious, and I've made it pretty obvious... There's really no need to be so 'matter-of-factly' about it.

 plonka2000 wrote:

 Homer S wrote:

 plonka2000 wrote:
Yeah that's why I made my point that I've clarified it with people each time.
He technically doesn't have a slugga cuz he swapped it out, but it seems silly to me still... so I ask and as I've said 100% of people have been fine with it.

FYI This would be a house rule, which is fine if you play somewhere that your opponents buy in. In a tourney, it would be a no-go.

Homer

That's pretty obvious, and I've made it pretty obvious... There's really no need to be so 'matter-of-factly' about it.

Sorry if that came off poorly...

Homer

 Kommissar Kel wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:
This is also explicitly addressed in the FAQ. Pain boyz can't get any of the unit's upgrades besides cybork.

this is somewhere between a Blatant lie, and a Gross overstatement.

The FAQ says that the Painboy cannot take Eavy Armor, Boss pole, Ammo runt, or Waagh banner.

True, I was unclear on this. A painboy can't take any nob oder flash git upgrades would be more correct, he is still affected by upgrades for the entire mob, like bikes and stikkbombs, which are not limited to nobz.

The Painboy can still be given a bike and technically you can exchange the Nob-that-will-be-a-painboy's Choppa for a big choppa, but then you will be paying points to "upgrade" that nob without gaining the gear that does anything('urty syringe and Doc's tools; which are given in exchange for the Slugga and Choppa).

You could argue whether you are required to have choppa for the painboy upgrade, whether you are allowed to have a weapon upgrade on a model that's not allowed to have that upgrade, or if you are allowed to do the upgrade-timing-trick on any unit other than boyz in first place.
But as it's essentially a waste of points to pay 30 points for nothing but unlocking cybork, there really is no point in arguing about it.