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SO most people are excited about primarch rules with the horus herasy books from Forge World.... you know, that herasy that took place 10,000 years before the game we play is set...

A major thing I liked about 40k when I started was the mystery and myth of these might heros and their fall. Even Black Library doesn't lump huge amounts of ingame stuff we can use on us, but still gives you something entertaining to read.

I just feel that if we wanted to play Warhammer 30k with Primarchs, maybe we shoulkd;ve started from there. I just feel a lot of myth and mistery will evaporate now we have "officials" and the like. What next? A Yosef Sabrat and Athena Diyos model and rules?

I thought we were playing poker...

I agree, but if GW can't advance there history then there not much that can happen otherwise : p

Personally I don't care about the Horus herasy anymore, it was cool and interesting but I want something new and lots of advancement in the setting.
Time for the 42nd millennium ?

I have absolutely no interest in playing 30K. And the more of the Heresy novels I read, the more I think writing them was a bad idea.

Apple fox wrote:
I agree, but if GW can't advance there history then there not much that can happen otherwise : p

Personally I don't care about the Horus herasy anymore, it was cool and interesting but I want something new and lots of advancement in the setting.
Time for the 42nd millennium ?

It's a setting, not a storyline. It's not supposed to move forwards or backwards.

 Kaldor wrote:
I have absolutely no interest in playing 30K. And the more of the Heresy novels I read, the more I think writing them was a bad idea.

Apple fox wrote:
I agree, but if GW can't advance there history then there not much that can happen otherwise : p

Personally I don't care about the Horus herasy anymore, it was cool and interesting but I want something new and lots of advancement in the setting.
Time for the 42nd millennium ?

It's a setting, not a storyline. It's not supposed to move forwards or backwards.

Settings can advance, and they could write story's from where they are in the setting.

But realy the setting is made from a storyline that can advance just fine.

Robinson92 wrote:
SO most people are excited about primarch rules with the horus herasy books from Forge World.... you know, that herasy that took place 10,000 years before the game we play is set...

That doesn't mean a thing.

As long as the rules aren't broken (and leaks from Forgeworld reveal that the Legion list is significantly underpowered), I'd be perfectly happy for my Tyranids to square off against a well painted pre heresy army, timelines be damned.

I'm getting the idea that the armies will be quite uncompatible. I think I read somewhere that you only pay 10 points for additional marines in the HH lists

 Robbietobbie wrote:
I'm getting the idea that the armies will be quite uncompatible. I think I read somewhere that you only pay 10 points for additional marines in the HH lists

I read they're about the same price, but lose ATSKNF. But basically, in internal testing, their Legion lists were getting spanked by normal Marine lists.

 -Loki- wrote:

 Robbietobbie wrote:
I'm getting the idea that the armies will be quite uncompatible. I think I read somewhere that you only pay 10 points for additional marines in the HH lists

I read they're about the same price, but lose ATSKNF. But basically, in internal testing, their Legion lists were getting spanked by normal Marine lists.

Which is odd, considering some of the stuff those leaks have shown.

 Kaldor wrote:
I have absolutely no interest in playing 30K. And the more of the Heresy novels I read, the more I think writing them was a bad idea.

Apple fox wrote:
I agree, but if GW can't advance there history then there not much that can happen otherwise : p

Personally I don't care about the Horus herasy anymore, it was cool and interesting but I want something new and lots of advancement in the setting.
Time for the 42nd millennium ?

It's a setting, not a storyline. It's not supposed to move forwards or backwards.

I always say that 40k story is like a fat person. The story can keep getting wider(keep adding more stuff to the current setting) but cannot get any taller(the story will not ever really advance in a meaningful way)

Chaos will never take Cadia
Abaddon will never get to even see Terra
The Emperor will never die
The Eldar will never finally die off
The Necrons will not rebuild their galaxy spanning empire
The Tau's Greater Good will not bring the galaxy together
The Tyranids will not consume everything
The Orks will never unite and drown the galaxy in violence
Nothing meaningful...ever.

Kinda sad really...

As for Horus Heresy. I have liked some of the books, but I have to try to forget that I know how its all going to end up anyway.

 TheCrazyCryptek wrote:

 Kaldor wrote:
I have absolutely no interest in playing 30K. And the more of the Heresy novels I read, the more I think writing them was a bad idea.

Apple fox wrote:
I agree, but if GW can't advance there history then there not much that can happen otherwise : p

Personally I don't care about the Horus herasy anymore, it was cool and interesting but I want something new and lots of advancement in the setting.
Time for the 42nd millennium ?

It's a setting, not a storyline. It's not supposed to move forwards or backwards.

I always say that 40k story is like a fat person. The story can keep getting wider(keep adding more stuff to the current setting) but cannot get any taller(the story will not ever really advance in a meaningful way)

Chaos will never take Cadia
Abaddon will never get to even see Terra
The Emperor will never die
The Eldar will never finally die off
The Necrons will not rebuild their galaxy spanning empire
The Tau's Greater Good will not bring the galaxy together
The Tyranids will not consume everything
The Orks will never unite and drown the galaxy in violence
Nothing meaningful...ever.

Kinda sad really...

As for Horus Heresy. I have liked some of the books, but I have to try to forget that I know how its all going to end up anyway.

See, that's the thing. GW made the setting, and they expect people to make their own stories. You want Chaos to finally take Cadia? Do a campaign with your friends and have Cadia fall. While it won't be written into the official fluff, this is what all the 'forging a narrative' stuff is about in the 6th edition rulebook. GW are giving you a setting to do what you want in, but not telling you how to play your setting.

If my Ultramarine playing friend ever comes back from whever he's living now, I plan on running a campaign with him about Behemoth taking another stab at Ultramar. While it won't be official, taking Macragge from that smug git will be worth it.

 -Loki- wrote:
See, that's the thing. GW made the setting, and they expect people to make their own stories. You want Chaos to finally take Cadia? Do a campaign with your friends and have Cadia fall. While it won't be written into the official fluff, this is what all the 'forging a narrative' stuff is about in the 6th edition rulebook. GW are giving you a setting to do what you want in, but not telling you how to play your setting.

If my Ultramarine playing friend ever comes back from whever he's living now, I plan on running a campaign with him about Behemoth taking another stab at Ultramar. While it won't be official, taking Macragge from that smug git will be worth it.

Exactly! The attraction of the 40K setting is that we can build our own narratives within it.

 TheCrazyCryptek wrote:

I always say that 40k story is like a fat person. The story can keep getting wider(keep adding more stuff to the current setting) but cannot get any taller(the story will not ever really advance in a meaningful way)

Chaos will never take Cadia
Abaddon will never get to even see Terra
The Emperor will never die
The Eldar will never finally die off
The Necrons will not rebuild their galaxy spanning empire
The Tau's Greater Good will not bring the galaxy together
The Tyranids will not consume everything
The Orks will never unite and drown the galaxy in violence
Nothing meaningful...ever.

Kinda sad really...

As for Horus Heresy. I have liked some of the books, but I have to try to forget that I know how its all going to end up anyway.

This is something I've been saying for a while. We can have battles take place in the past, re-enact the first war on Armageddon, but in order for the story to actually move forward... That would require a change to the stasis of constant war that is going on right now.

RagnarGangleri wrote:

 TheCrazyCryptek wrote:

I always say that 40k story is like a fat person. The story can keep getting wider(keep adding more stuff to the current setting) but cannot get any taller(the story will not ever really advance in a meaningful way)

Chaos will never take Cadia
Abaddon will never get to even see Terra
The Emperor will never die
The Eldar will never finally die off
The Necrons will not rebuild their galaxy spanning empire
The Tau's Greater Good will not bring the galaxy together
The Tyranids will not consume everything
The Orks will never unite and drown the galaxy in violence
Nothing meaningful...ever.

Kinda sad really...

As for Horus Heresy. I have liked some of the books, but I have to try to forget that I know how its all going to end up anyway.

This is something I've been saying for a while. We can have battles take place in the past, re-enact the first war on Armageddon, but in order for the story to actually move forward... That would require a change to the stasis of constant war that is going on right now.

And a change to the stasis of constant warfare, as some people seem to want, necessitates ruining someone's day by taking away their army's story opportunities just to give everyone else's story some new wrinkle.

 CalgarsPimpHand wrote:

. . .a change to the stasis of constant warfare, as some people seem to want, necessitates ruining someone's day by taking away their army's story opportunities just to give everyone else's story some new wrinkle.

But, isn't this exactly what happened to the squats? First they got omnom'ed by the Tyranid and now GW claims they no longer exist in WH40K. The only difference is that all the other story lines didn't get a new "wrinkle".

Psssh, forgworld stuff isn't official anyways.

Just think of it as a particular author's interpretation of events. You don't have to think about it as the "truth" of the setting, just one person's story about it.

It seems (I may be wrong) like there's two camps here: those who prefer to stick to the offical canon and structure their fanon within that (Guardsmen vs. Tau in the Damocles Crusade, Orks vs. Chaos as part of the Waaagh! into the eye of terror, etc.) and those who don't mind reinterpreting the storyline within the setting and creating their own events and divergent plot.
The new HH novels can be interpreted as being on either side.

Both are cool. Neither are really wrong, because there's nothing any of us can do about it over the Internet. How about we share cool things we've done with our WH40K fanon, instead?

 Ailaros wrote:
Psssh, forgworld stuff isn't official anyways.

The front page of every forgeworld book begs to differ.

But does it really matter if the year in the fluff changes to 41000? I mean what earth shattering consequence would that have that it is avoided to fiercely? I guess one could argue that we would then be playing 41k but is it that critical? would anyone really care enough for it to affect gw's sales?

Robinson92 wrote:
SO most people are excited about primarch rules with the horus herasy books from Forge World.... you know, that herasy that took place 10,000 years before the game we play is set...

A major thing I liked about 40k when I started was the mystery and myth of these might heros and their fall. Even Black Library doesn't lump huge amounts of ingame stuff we can use on us, but still gives you something entertaining to read.

I just feel that if we wanted to play Warhammer 30k with Primarchs, maybe we shoulkd;ve started from there. I just feel a lot of myth and mistery will evaporate now we have "officials" and the like. What next? A Yosef Sabrat and Athena Diyos model and rules?

Well for some of us we did start playing back then. The Adeptus Titanticus game was based during the Heresy, with the follow up of Space marine (1 @ 2) and Titan legions. Angron, Magnus, Fulgrim and Mortarian all had minis of themselves available in the Epic games as they were when the became deamon princes of chaos.

The Heresy has long been an anchoring and pivitol point in the history of the 40k game and it should come as no surprise to finally see some details added to the period. The Horus Heresy novels from Black Library started to demystify the period and now forge world are adding to it. No one is forcing you to switch to playing in the Heresy period, but I am looking forward to a series of cool primarch models from Forge world and have wanted such a collection in 40k scale pretty much since I first started reading about the Horus Heresy and the primarchs 20+ years ago. Kind of weird that they started with Angron and not Horus, but I expect them all to be represented eventually.

As with everything else, if this part of the story and the details are not something you are interested in, then you are free to ignore it all.

Skriker


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 TheCrazyCryptek wrote:
I always say that 40k story is like a fat person. The story can keep getting wider(keep adding more stuff to the current setting) but cannot get any taller(the story will not ever really advance in a meaningful way)

Chaos will never take Cadia
Abaddon will never get to even see Terra
The Emperor will never die
The Eldar will never finally die off
The Necrons will not rebuild their galaxy spanning empire
The Tau's Greater Good will not bring the galaxy together
The Tyranids will not consume everything
The Orks will never unite and drown the galaxy in violence
Nothing meaningful...ever.

Kinda sad really...

Kind of sad, but no different than any other wargaming storyline. If the major players achieve their overarching goals the conflict goes away, the constant battles end and you no longer have a war game. Most fantasy and sci-fi wargames are a snapshot of a galaxy/planet/continent's history. Without that ever present conflict what is the point? It would be like advancing the timeline in your World War II themed game to 1946 when the war is over, the major enemies have been destroyed and life is now going on. Wow how exciting would those games be?

This is the nature of the beast. Wargames need that static moment of constant conflict to be relevant within their environments. If everyone is at peace then why would there be all these battles anyway?

Skriker

 Skriker wrote:

Robinson92 wrote:
SO most people are excited about primarch rules with the horus herasy books from Forge World.... you know, that herasy that took place 10,000 years before the game we play is set...

A major thing I liked about 40k when I started was the mystery and myth of these might heros and their fall. Even Black Library doesn't lump huge amounts of ingame stuff we can use on us, but still gives you something entertaining to read.

I just feel that if we wanted to play Warhammer 30k with Primarchs, maybe we shoulkd;ve started from there. I just feel a lot of myth and mistery will evaporate now we have "officials" and the like. What next? A Yosef Sabrat and Athena Diyos model and rules?

Well for some of us we did start playing back then. The Adeptus Titanticus game was based during the Heresy, with the follow up of Space marine (1 @ 2) and Titan legions. Angron, Magnus, Fulgrim and Mortarian all had minis of themselves available in the Epic games as they were when the became deamon princes of chaos.

The Heresy has long been an anchoring and pivitol point in the history of the 40k game and it should come as no surprise to finally see some details added to the period. The Horus Heresy novels from Black Library started to demystify the period and now forge world are adding to it. No one is forcing you to switch to playing in the Heresy period, but I am looking forward to a series of cool primarch models from Forge world and have wanted such a collection in 40k scale pretty much since I first started reading about the Horus Heresy and the primarchs 20+ years ago. Kind of weird that they started with Angron and not Horus, but I expect them all to be represented eventually.

As with everything else, if this part of the story and the details are not something you are interested in, then you are free to ignore it all.

Skriker


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 TheCrazyCryptek wrote:
I always say that 40k story is like a fat person. The story can keep getting wider(keep adding more stuff to the current setting) but cannot get any taller(the story will not ever really advance in a meaningful way)

Chaos will never take Cadia
Abaddon will never get to even see Terra
The Emperor will never die
The Eldar will never finally die off
The Necrons will not rebuild their galaxy spanning empire
The Tau's Greater Good will not bring the galaxy together
The Tyranids will not consume everything
The Orks will never unite and drown the galaxy in violence
Nothing meaningful...ever.

Kinda sad really...

Kind of sad, but no different than any other wargaming storyline. If the major players achieve their overarching goals the conflict goes away, the constant battles end and you no longer have a war game. Most fantasy and sci-fi wargames are a snapshot of a galaxy/planet/continent's history. Without that ever present conflict what is the point? It would be like advancing the timeline in your World War II themed game to 1946 when the war is over, the major enemies have been destroyed and life is now going on. Wow how exciting would those games be?

This is the nature of the beast. Wargames need that static moment of constant conflict to be relevant within their environments. If everyone is at peace then why would there be all these battles anyway?

Skriker

Episode 3-4 the Sith actually conquer the galaxy hence a new hope...

In the RPG world and yes WH40K is a RPG, you have a setting and a history/back story to give the game life and some understanding. Then the players write the story, while it in no way actually forges into official fluff it gives you the player control of how you want the game to flow and the story to continue. The makers and writers of the game are only charged with flow and balance of the rules to make the game in itself change, not all changes will be liked by all every time. As for Forgeworld yes they have a license agreement with GW but in no means are the official fluff or rules writers for the game. Why you ask doesn't GW put stats and lists for the Primarchs ....prolly the same reason in any game system there are characters you just can't play they are called(sorry going back to my D&D days) NPC's or Non- Player Characters ...and so as a player you don't get their stats. I say quit challenging GW on stuff and just enjoy the game for what it is ....setting for a time period that allows you to either move forward or backwards as you choose without forcing everyone to follow suit.