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The lightning from that special game rules is a blast marker however. Not to mention that flyers ignore terrain, which would (or should?) include the effects of the mysterious terrain you're referencing.

I see your points about non-weapon effects such as mysterious terrain, but I don't see how they're excepted from the Hard to Hit rule. For example, the Carnivorous Jungle type, units in the terrain at the start of their shooting phase take D3 auto hits. They don't affect flyers as they're auto hit, non-snap shot, with no specific permission to hit flyers. In looking at the rest of the terrain types, I really don't see any that would affect flyers.

I also see your point about taking the 'only snap shots' out of context of the entire question. I don't agree with you on this one. The way I read it is the question is a specific one, asking how maelstroms, novas and beams, or any auto-hit weapons interact with flyers. The answer is a general one saying that 'only snap shots' can hit them.

It's already been mentioned in this thread, but the arguments you're using are generally the same ones people used before the FAQ to justify Mawlocs hitting flyers. People said that although it uses a large blast marker it could hit flyers because the language in the BRB said 'weapon', and they claimed that TFtD wasn't a weapon (which I find ridiculous BTW). The Tyranid FAQ said it couldn't, although I'll concede that it doesn't say why explicitly, it seems fairly obvious that this is because a marker of some sort is involved. I think there are a lot of parallels to this debate. You're saying the rules disallowing auto-hits don't apply because LotS isn't a weapon. I'm saying the language in the answer is all inclusive. Only means only. Whatever the source of the hit, if it isn't as a snap shot it cannot hit unless given permission to do so.

Okay, I have internet. All things with a profile are weapons still. The reason you can't negate this with a ram is two fold:
1) A ram attack has no profile and it only gives any indication of strength if the vehicle has moved at cruising speed. It physically doesn't exist until the vehicle moves at cruising speed (p86 last paragraph, first sentence).
2) It has no AP and thus doesn't satisfy the weapon profile requirements. Armour penetration is done due to explicit permission to do so (p86 fourth paragraph on the right, after italicised section). We must make a logical assumption this bypasses the weapon wording or it doesn't work at all.

So no, it still all applies. The game makes LotS a weapon by its own definition. Unless it bypasses the rules explicitly (it doesn't) then it has to follow.

Eyjio wrote:
Okay, I have internet. All things with a profile are weapons still. The reason you can't negate this with a ram is two fold:
1) A ram attack has no profile and it only gives any indication of strength if the vehicle has moved at cruising speed. It physically doesn't exist until the vehicle moves at cruising speed (p86 last paragraph, first sentence).
2) It has no AP and thus doesn't satisfy the weapon profile requirements. Armour penetration is done due to explicit permission to do so (p86 fourth paragraph on the right, after italicised section). We must make a logical assumption this bypasses the weapon wording or it doesn't work at all.

So no, it still all applies. The game makes LotS a weapon by its own definition. Unless it bypasses the rules explicitly (it doesn't) then it has to follow.

To be fair, the rules for AP on page 17 do say "nearly all weapons have an armour penetration value".

Don't forget vehicle explosions and flying mc's or flyers causing themselves a glancing hit due to a get's hot roll... but again, you'll be told that those aren't snap shots either... sigh

 Crablezworth wrote:
Don't forget vehicle explosions and flying mc's or flyers causing themselves a glancing hit due to a get's hot roll... but again, you'll be told that those aren't snap shots either... sigh

My interpretation is that Gets Hot! has permission to hit the vehicle that caused it.

Exploding vehicles however, cannot hit, as they have no permission to do so.

 Crablezworth wrote:
Don't forget vehicle explosions and flying mc's or flyers causing themselves a glancing hit due to a get's hot roll... but again, you'll be told that those aren't snap shots either... sigh

Glancing Hits caused by Gets Hot work just fine on flyers, because Glancing hits are damage results, not hits as defined in Shooting rules and in the FAQ. Same goes for FMC's, because Get Hots causes Wound, not an Hits.
Now vehicle explosions don't affect flyers, exactly as the FAQ said.

Edit: If someone tries to argue that "Glancing/Penetrating Hit" is a hit in the shooting sense, just point out to them that S10 weapon therefore causes infinite Penetrating Hits on a vehicle.

Why would an explosion not hit a flying mc if it's within the distance of the explosion? The explosion rules are not shooting attacks, that's actually part of the problem currently with the explosion rules, there is no method given for wounding. They also make no distinction as to what kind of unit they hit, obviously at S3 they can't hurt a vehicle but they could hurt a flying mc or any other kind of unit.

Because an explosion from a vehicle is not a snap shot. You may think that logically a big enough explosion should affect flyers but the rules forbid it.

copper.talos wrote:
Because an explosion from a vehicle is not a snap shot. You may think that logically a big enough explosion should affect flyers but the rules forbid it.

Oh look, another nit picked quote from the FAQ completely without context to the question asked. This thread is full of them.

I find it funny that you all pick that part of the answer but then do not quote the rest of the asnwer that actually shows you the connection between the question and the answer and how they are specific to eachother.

 Tyr Grimtooth wrote:

copper.talos wrote:
Because an explosion from a vehicle is not a snap shot. You may think that logically a big enough explosion should affect flyers but the rules forbid it.

Oh look, another nit picked quote from the FAQ completely without context to the question asked. This thread is full of them.

I find it funny that you all pick that part of the answer but then do not quote the rest of the answer that actually shows you the connection between the question and the answer and how they are specific to each other.

Because, like some other faq answers, that answer is a very broad answer to a specific question and it applies to more situations than just the question that was asked.

We know, from that FAQ, that snap shots are the only thing that can hit Zooming flyers. So logic says that anything that is not a snap shot can not hit Zooming flyers. It is just that simple.

 DeathReaper wrote:

 Tyr Grimtooth wrote:

copper.talos wrote:
Because an explosion from a vehicle is not a snap shot. You may think that logically a big enough explosion should affect flyers but the rules forbid it.

Oh look, another nit picked quote from the FAQ completely without context to the question asked. This thread is full of them.

I find it funny that you all pick that part of the answer but then do not quote the rest of the answer that actually shows you the connection between the question and the answer and how they are specific to each other.

Because, like some other faq answers, that answer is a very broad answer to a specific question and it applies to more situations than just the question that was asked.

We know, from that FAQ, that snap shots are the only thing that can hit Zooming flyers. So logic says that anything that is not a snap shot can not hit Zooming flyers. It is just that simple.

Where the hell are you getting that it is a broad answer? The question is specific to maelstrom, beam, nova, or any other weapon that automatically hits or do not roll to hit. The answer then goes on to specify those specific types of shooting attacks.

Again, how the hell is that a broad answer when it specifically references the question?

"Only Snap shots can hit a zooming flyer, or FMC" applies to everything that can hit them, even though the specific question was about weapons.

 DeathReaper wrote:
"Only Snap shots can hit a zooming flyer, or FMC" applies to everything that can hit them, even though the specific question was about weapons.

This. Or do you in the NO group honestly expect GW to explicitly call out EVERY single ability, rule, weapon or effect in the game and how it works with flyers or other special cases?

 undertow wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:
"Only Snap shots can hit a zooming flyer, or FMC" applies to everything that can hit them, even though the specific question was about weapons.

This. Or do you in the NO group honestly expect GW to explicitly call out EVERY single ability, rule, weapon or effect in the game and how it works with flyers or other special cases?

I'd "expect" them to be consistent and coherent with their rules, but they have a track record of not being so, so yes everything will be questioned all the time.

That isn't what it actually says. I'd agree you are trying to 'apply' it to everything, but the question itself only explicitly applies it to the items listed within it.

edit: and yes i expect them to specifically indicate each rule that it interacts with in a consistent fashion. I do agree with the prior poster who indicated this is often not the case though.

 Kevin949 wrote:
The lightning from that special game rules is a blast marker however. Not to mention that flyers ignore terrain, which would (or should?) include the effects of the mysterious terrain you're referencing.

You don't actually know the rules do you? You just seem to spout of what you think or what has been repeated many times as rules when they are not, and you do it with a confidence that doesn't really make people challenge you.

Zooming Flyers do not ignore terrain first of all. They can move over intervening units/impassable terrain and do not take DT test if it starts or stops over difficult, dangerous, or impassable terrain.

So, page 102 details Forests, Jungles, and Woods, which are always at least difficult terrain. Number 3 of the Mysterious Forest Table is Carnivorous Jungle, which if a Zooming Flyer ends up being in, "at the start of their Shooting pahse, it suffers D3 automatic hits resolved at Strength 5, AP -". Hits on vehicles are resolved against rear armor.

Now look to page 106, Archeotech Artefacts: Booby Trap

To address the point you try to make about Lightning Storm on page 367, it uses the small blast marker. That does not make it a blast weapon as prohibited on page 81, Hard to Hit. If need be, read page 33 to familiarize yourself with blast weapons.

 Tyr Grimtooth wrote:

 Kevin949 wrote:
The lightning from that special game rules is a blast marker however. Not to mention that flyers ignore terrain, which would (or should?) include the effects of the mysterious terrain you're referencing.

You don't actually know the rules do you? You just seem to spout of what you think or what has been repeated many times as rules when they are not, and you do it with a confidence that doesn't really make people challenge you.

Zooming Flyers do not ignore terrain first of all. They can move over intervening units/impassable terrain and do not take DT test if it starts or stops over difficult, dangerous, or impassable terrain.

So, page 102 details Forests, Jungles, and Woods, which are always at least difficult terrain. Number 3 of the Mysterious Forest Table is Carnivorous Jungle, which if a Zooming Flyer ends up being in, "at the start of their Shooting pahse, it suffers D3 automatic hits resolved at Strength 5, AP -". Hits on vehicles are resolved against rear armor.

Now look to page 106, Archeotech Artefacts: Booby Trap

To address the point you try to make about Lightning Storm on page 367, it uses the small blast marker. That does not make it a blast weapon as prohibited on page 81, Hard to Hit. If need be, read page 33 to familiarize yourself with blast weapons.

Well first off, sorry I don't have every facet of the rules memorized like you? I'll get right on that, JUST FOR YOU.

Regarding the lightning, it's absolutely considered a weapon. You just like to delude yourselves in thinking that since it's not carried by a model it's not a weapon.

Third, if a flyer didn't ignore terrain it would have to take dangerous terrain tests, no? Yes, the rule for flyers (specifically) say they don't but since the base of the flyer is ignored then there's no way they are ever in "area terrain" anyway, they're over it.

 Tyr Grimtooth wrote:
You don't actually know the rules do you?

It's funny that you say this. Those terrain types you mentioned cause hits, flyers can only be hit by Snap Shots.

The funniest thing is that you're comparing effects from a weapon / special ability (BTW, I see no distinction between the two) to effects from terrain. I'll quote you to illustrate how silly you're being:

 Tyr Grimtooth wrote:
Since A = X and 4 = carrot, monkey = ¥. So in other words, it doesn't make sense.

For the record, I see hits from any source to be attacks. The FAQ is marvelously clear that 'Therefore, any ATTACKS that use blast markers, templates, create a line of/area of effect or otherwise don't roll to hit cannot target them'.

Vindicare-Obsession wrote:That is a good point. I was under the impression that the wording for hard to hit was "Weapons or Attacks resolved against a flyer must be resolved as snapshots"

Now that I see the FAQ is all inclusive, I will conceed the argument.

The faq entry makes a broad statement to answer a specific question, but it is not a faq entry on Hard to Hit (p81). It clarifies Snap Snot (p13).

Neorealist wrote:That isn't what it actually says. I'd agree you are trying to 'apply' it to everything, but the question itself only explicitly applies it to the items listed within it.

edit: and yes i expect them to specifically indicate each rule that it interacts with in a consistent fashion. I do agree with the prior poster who indicated this is often not the case though.

This +1. If GW wants clarity on this issue, they should errata Hard to Hit.

Tyr Grimtooth wrote:Zooming Flyers do not ignore terrain first of all. They can move over intervening units/impassable terrain and do not take DT test if it starts or stops over difficult, dangerous, or impassable terrain.

This +1. The rules say what the rules say, no more, no less. It's sometimes helpful to paraphrase the above as "ignores all terrain" but a RAW discussion is not one of those times.

Kevin949 wrote:Well first off, sorry I don't have every facet of the rules memorized like you

I don't think we need to have all rules and updates memorized. But if we are posting somethinng as fact, try to double check. Also, I don't think we should come down on each other quite so hard when make a mistake. Somewhere in the middle is a nice balanced approach with phrases like 'iirc' and 'sorry, pXYZ disagrees.'

The idea that a weapon may or may not require a model is is interesting. The p50-62 weapons seem to all be wargear carried by models. Witchfire (PSA) "counts as firing an Assault weapon."
(p69)

 undertow wrote:

 Tyr Grimtooth wrote:
You don't actually know the rules do you?

It's funny that you say this. Those terrain types you mentioned cause hits, flyers can only be hit by Snap Shots.

The funniest thing is that you're comparing effects from a weapon / special ability (BTW, I see no distinction between the two) to effects from terrain. I'll quote you to illustrate how silly you're being:

 Tyr Grimtooth wrote:
Since A = X and 4 = carrot, monkey = ¥. So in other words, it doesn't make sense.

For the record, I see hits from any source to be attacks. The FAQ is marvelously clear that 'Therefore, any ATTACKS that use blast markers, templates, create a line of/area of effect or otherwise don't roll to hit cannot target them'.

You remind me of another poster that just regurgitates what has already been said without actually adressing the shortcomings of that statement that have been pointed out. In this case you keep parroting,

"Only snap shots can hit flyers.......brawk! Undertow wants a cracker!"

Despite that being a single sentence of a FAQ taken completely out of context. Read the entire entry and you see how that statement applies to a specific question regarding psychic shooting attacks and weapons that either automatically hit or do not roll to hit.

However the fact that you maintain there is no distinction between weapons, game effects, or terrain effects with stubborn indifference to what has been presented, there is no point in even trying to explain to you how the rules are written. So RAI away Undertow and pray for a TO that likes crackers just as much as you.

 undertow wrote:
Those terrain types you mentioned cause hits, flyers can only be hit by Snap Shots.

I think you are being overly broad in your reading of a faq entry. Specifically...

Q: How do maelstroms, novas and beams – or indeed any weapon that doesn’t need to roll To Hit or hits automatically – interact with Zooming Flyers and Swooping Flying Monstrous Creatures? (p13)
A: Only Snap Shots can hit Zooming Flyers and Swooping Flying Monstrous Creatures. Therefore, any attacks that use blast markers, templates, create a line of/area of effect or otherwise don’t roll to hit cannot target them. This includes weapons such as the Necron Doom Scythe’s death ray or the Deathstrike missile of the Imperial Guard, and psychic powers that follow the rule for maelstroms, beams, and novas.

You can't read the answer to a specific question as a new rule. If you could, I would look at the same v1.0a update and say other silly things.

Q: Do you get to Pile In twice in Fight sub-phase if you fight at two different Initiatives (i.e. a Techmarine with servo-harness)? (p22/23)
A: No. You Pile In once, at your highest Initiative step.

If I read this as a new rule, you now only get to pile in once, at your highest Initiative (so only the SM Captain if he is with Tactical Marines, or only the Marines if the Captain has a PF)

Q: Land Speeder Storms, Stormraven Gunships and Stormtalon Gunships are all listed as Space Marine vehicles in the Reference section. Does this mean that every Space Marine Chapter now has access to these vehicles as well (i.e. Space Wolves, Blood Angels, Grey Knights etc.)? (p411)
A: No – you may only select units and vehicles that are available in the army list section of your Codex. The one exception is the Stormtalon (as its rules were featured in White Dwarf), but it is only available to armies chosen from Codex: Space Marines.

If I read this as a new rule, I just negated the Allies section (p112) of the 6th ed rules.

 undertow wrote:
For the record, I see hits from any source to be attacks. The FAQ is marvelously clear that 'Therefore, any ATTACKS that use blast markers, templates, create a line of/area of effect or otherwise don't roll to hit cannot target them'.

Your first statement here is an opinion, without RAW. The second is an overly broad, out of context application, with predictably odd consequences, as shown above.

foolishmortal wrote:
I don't think we need to have all rules and updates memorized. But if we are posting somethinng as fact, try to double check. Also, I don't think we should come down on each other quite so hard when make a mistake. Somewhere in the middle is a nice balanced approach with phrases like 'iirc' and 'sorry, pXYZ disagrees.'

The idea that a weapon may or may not require a model is is interesting. The p50-62 weapons seem to all be wargear carried by models. Witchfire (PSA) "counts as firing an Assault weapon."
(p69)

well for witchfire; its "used instead of firing a weapon". and just counts as "firing" an assault weapon, it doesn't count as an assault weapon. so it is a shooting attack, just not a weapon.

Its a subtle difference so you end up being able to snap shot with witchfire, just not able to death or glory with it. It's clearly not a "weapon carried by the model"

@undertow; There really is no reason GW could not explicitly call out every single ability, rule, weapon and effect in the game and how they interact with each other. Go check out the Magic the gathering FAQ's. GW could do a similar FAQ style and actually answer every question, or at least look at all the old questions that keep coming up over and over again and make it clear in their rules when they update them. ie DOG & PSA. Keep the 5 page ones for the general public, but compile a TO FAQ with every question ever asked.

copper.talos wrote:
Because an explosion from a vehicle is not a snap shot. You may think that logically a big enough explosion should affect flyers but the rules forbid it.

Right, it's not a snapshot, it's not any kind of shot actually, that's the problem. The explosion rules don't forbid it, they simply don't define how the hits work, for anything. Although they explain enough that they cause hits to all units with no exceptions cited. A vehicle exploding isn't a shooting attack.

The reason I keep bringing it up is simple: Just saying x isn't a snap shot is not a solution for rules that don't fit the mould of "shooting/cc/psychic attack".

 DeathReaper wrote:
"Only Snap shots can hit a zooming flyer, or FMC" applies to everything that can hit them, even though the specific question was about weapons.

Actually that's not a 100% true, as rules with specific permission can still hit them without being snap shots.
That said whatshisname's magic thunder seems to lack that.

sirlynchmob wrote:
well for witchfire; its "used instead of firing a weapon". and just counts as "firing" an assault weapon, it doesn't count as an assault weapon. so it is a shooting attack, just not a weapon.

Its a subtle difference so you end up being able to snap shot with witchfire, just not able to death or glory with it. It's clearly not a "weapon carried by the model"

Yeah, I understand. I was mostly thinking out loud (via the keyboard) about something a previous poster said.

Sorry to distract from the conversation. We're starting to get some understanding of the scope of the snap shot faq entry.

foolishmortal wrote:

 undertow wrote:
Those terrain types you mentioned cause hits, flyers can only be hit by Snap Shots.

I think you are being overly broad in your reading of a faq entry. Specifically...

Q: How do maelstroms, novas and beams – or indeed any weapon that doesn’t need to roll To Hit or hits automatically – interact with Zooming Flyers and Swooping Flying Monstrous Creatures? (p13)
A: Only Snap Shots can hit Zooming Flyers and Swooping Flying Monstrous Creatures. Therefore, any attacks that use blast markers, templates, create a line of/area of effect or otherwise don’t roll to hit cannot target them. This includes weapons such as the Necron Doom Scythe’s death ray or the Deathstrike missile of the Imperial Guard, and psychic powers that follow the rule for maelstroms, beams, and novas.

You can't read the answer to a specific question as a new rule. If you could, I would look at the same v1.0a update and say other silly things.

I'm not reading it as a new rule. I'm reading it as a clarification of the Hard to Hit rule. Hard to hit in the BRB says 'Shots fired at such a Zooming Flyer can only be resolved as Snap Shots'. The FAQ is a clarification of that poorly worded rule.

Q: Do you get to Pile In twice in Fight sub-phase if you fight at two different Initiatives (i.e. a Techmarine with servo-harness)? (p22/23)
A: No. You Pile In once, at your highest Initiative step.

If I read this as a new rule, you now only get to pile in once, at your highest Initiative (so only the SM Captain if he is with Tactical Marines, or only the Marines if the Captain has a PF)

Q: Land Speeder Storms, Stormraven Gunships and Stormtalon Gunships are all listed as Space Marine vehicles in the Reference section. Does this mean that every Space Marine Chapter now has access to these vehicles as well (i.e. Space Wolves, Blood Angels, Grey Knights etc.)? (p411)
A: No – you may only select units and vehicles that are available in the army list section of your Codex. The one exception is the Stormtalon (as its rules were featured in White Dwarf), but it is only available to armies chosen from Codex: Space Marines.

If I read this as a new rule, I just negated the Allies section (p112) of the 6th ed rules.

 undertow wrote:
For the record, I see hits from any source to be attacks. The FAQ is marvelously clear that 'Therefore, any ATTACKS that use blast markers, templates, create a line of/area of effect or otherwise don't roll to hit cannot target them'.

Your first statement here is an opinion, without RAW. The second is an overly broad, out of context application, with predictably odd consequences, as shown above.

Those examples you've picked are nonsense, are not ambiguous at all and are unrelated to the discussion we're having here. The only way someone would actually confuse those rules would be if they did it intentionally. So, nice straw man there.

Also, is there a definition of 'attack' anywhere in the BRB or FAQs? Why is it wrong to apply the label 'attack' to an ability of a character that is used only offensively to damage the other player's units?

undertow wrote:I'm not reading it as a new rule. I'm reading it as a clarification of the Hard to Hit rule. Hard to hit in the BRB says 'Shots fired at such a Zooming Flyer can only be resolved as Snap Shots'. The FAQ is a clarification of that poorly worded rule.

I'm not even sure you realize you are doing it. Here it is again.

Q: How do maelstroms, novas and beams – or indeed any weapon that doesn’t need to roll To Hit or hits automatically – interact with Zooming Flyers and Swooping Flying Monstrous Creatures? (p13)
A: Only Snap Shots can hit Zooming Flyers and Swooping Flying Monstrous Creatures. Therefore, any attacks that use blast markers, templates, create a line of/area of effect or
otherwise don’t roll to hit cannot target them. This includes weapons such as the Necron Doom Scythe’s death ray or the Deathstrike missile of the Imperial Guard, and psychic
powers that follow the rule for maelstroms, beams, and novas.

This is a faq entry on Snap Shot (p13) not Hard to Hit (p81).

As you said, HtH restricts what sort of shooting attacks may hit flyers (snap shots)

As you said, Snap Shot is poorly written, thus the faq entry.

What I'm saying is that LotS is not a shooting attack, nor is it anything else prohibited from affecting flyers under the Zooming rule or HtH rule.
Since it is not a shooting attack, I'm asking why are you imposing restrictions on it as if it were?



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 undertow wrote:
Also, is there a definition of 'attack' anywhere in the BRB or FAQs? Why is it wrong to apply the label 'attack' to an ability of a character that is used only offensively to damage the other player's units?

I'm actually geting much more comfortable with calling the lightning from LotS an attack now that I have re-read the Mawloc faq entries and considered some other non-shooting/cc/psykic attacks (such as Sweep Attack)

I didn't say you were wrong or that I disagreed with you when you said "For the record, I see hits from any source to be attacks." I just said it was an opinion. It looked like you were leading up to some sort of deductive argument, and those need to be based on true premises if you want them to be persuasive.

I'm open to the idea of LotS's lightning being a 'generic attack' and/or a 'non-wargear weapon'. But I'm not going to say it is or is not so because I want it to be or not to be. I was just trying to keep opinion separate from RAW.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 undertow wrote:
Those examples you've picked are nonsense, are not ambiguous at all and are unrelated to the discussion we're having here. The only way someone would actually confuse those rules would be if they did it intentionally. So, nice straw man there.

Reading the answer to a faq entry as a new rule while ignoring the scope of question that it was asking is nonsense, I agree. You seem to think that people doing that is unlikely, or only if by intention.

Perhaps you should weigh in on http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/quote/0/4881946.page

Fragile wrote:

 grendel083 wrote:

Fragile wrote:

 grendel083 wrote:
So in General you can assault a unit you can't hurt.
More Specifically you can't assault a vehicle you can't hurt.

There is no substantial difference here. Units can be made up of vehicles, therefore that FAQ overrides and allows you to charge vehicles you cannot hurt.

There is a substantial difference.
Even a single vehicle is a unit.
You can assault a unit you cannot hurt. Unless that unit is a vehicle.

The FAQ makes no distinction. You can charge a unit. A vehicle is a unit.

I'm with grendel. The FAQ on p20 is referring to general charge rules, while the p76 is specifically for vehicles, and overrides the general rule.

Which would be fine, except the FAQ overrides that. That FAQ needs an exception for vehicles put in it.

Fragile is making the argument that since the faq entry for p20 says you can, that overrides the BRB rules on p76 saying you cannot.

Do you think he is being intentionally confused, or would you say he made the honest mistake of reading a faq entry as broader in scope than it it actually was?

And if it is not a shooting attack, it can not be a weapon, and can not add its Str to the D6 roll to pen.

But we can not think of it that way, because that way breaks rules.

So we have to think of it as a weapon/attack, because that way does not break any rules.

Does LoTS have specific rules that over ride the snap shot requirement?

If not then it can not hit a zooming flyer.

 DeathReaper wrote:
Does LoTS have specific rules that over ride the snap shot requirement?

If not then it can not hit a zooming flyer.

Why? The faq entry on Snap Shots?

Hard to Hit applies the Snap Shot restriction to shooting attacks. LotS is not a shooting attack.