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I have just started a BA army. I am not sure if I have a good list, for I have not played a single game yet. I just finished painting them.

I have...

Mephiston
Sanguinor

Sanguinary Guard

Death Company (5 with jump pack) & Lemartes

assault marines x 10

Landraider

Landraider Crusader


How will this list do in a game in general?

Strengths? Weaknesses?

Im new. Please help me if you are an experienced wargamer.

Thx.

Well, in general you need more scoring troops, i.e., at least 10 more Assault Marines.

Strengths- You have some of the more powerful things in the codex. Mephiston the piston, Golden boy and his special little followersimean sanguinary guard, lemartes (lol got enough named characters ?) and a pair of landraiders.

The weaknesses? Where to start...

Ok you have 10 assault marines as your scoring troops. If that takes more than two turns to kill, My dice is really bad. So in two turns you can no longer score objectives. aaaaand therefore ye cannot win 5/6'ths of the missions. Bad. You need more troops.
Speaking of needing more troops- you lack boots. How many S-guard do you have? I'm guessing nothing over 10. So you have 25 pairs of boots, 10 of which score, +characters. That's practically nothing. Your army look to be ~1500 maybe. I'd field 30-40 boots in the form of just troops at that point. It's hard to go wrong with the philosophy of "1 tac squad per 500 points". Since your BA, you can use assault marines- I play SW, so its Grey hunters instead, etc etc.
Land raiders- why? two of them? really =\?...you don't even have a squad for both of them. Landraiders are gunboats- they carry things whilst having firepower, ya? So if you don't have something to carry, its just firepower, ya? Oh look my 60p speeder melta'd your 250p tank. It's super effective ! Speaking of which, what happens when I field a landraider? We can have a pissing contest across the board with lascannons (pissing contest, since your new, = "I have little chance to hurt you and you have little chance to hurt me, but we have no other option but to pray to the dice gods"), until my aforementioned speeder melts yours. Where's your speeder?

To be honest, get a few games under your belt, and lose horribly. Don't take that the wrong way- You said your new. Whilst it's a great dream to just pick up information from the net/other people and just start smashing crabs, you gotta remember every experience wargamer/professional/boxer/what the hell ever, was a whelp once. Quite often the experienced person forgets it themselves too Once you've been thrown face first into the mud enough times, you 1) understand how people throw you down, 2) what you do to enable them to throw you down into the mud and 3) you have the experience which creates that almost pavlovian response of "If the bell rings, food comes" imeanwhatamisaying "If the tac squad moves here, it will die. Don't move the tac squad there"



But general guides- Get some more troops. Don't buy more named characters. Use your codex's strengths/differences to the main marine codex- You have fast vehicles, they are very strong. Vindicators and predators are very good. You get funky dreadnoughts with all sorts of things marine players want. They are also good. Get somethings to put inside those landraiders if your going to use them. Your biggest weakness is too many points spent on elite units (not elite FOC slots- landraiders are bloody expensive, and so are named HQ's!), not enough points spent on the things that will carry you to victory- troops to score, and units that are the workhorse's of your army that do the real work. Oh, and get some sanguinary priests. They are the shiznit yo

Your list is illegal. Landraiders are only DT's, and the only unit you have that can take it is the assault squad.

jbunny wrote:
Your list is illegal. Landraiders are only DT's, and the only unit you have that can take it is the assault squad.

Blood Angels can't take Land Raiders as Heavy Support choices?

Crazyterran wrote:

jbunny wrote:
Your list is illegal. Landraiders are only DT's, and the only unit you have that can take it is the assault squad.

Blood Angels can't take Land Raiders as Heavy Support choices?

nope. He should buy more troops anyway. The list is going to need them eventually if he wants a reasonable shot a winning.

Edit: I guess he could split the assault marines into two separate 5 man squads and run them that way (legally)

Forgive me, because im new to the game and this forum, but I don't understand why my list is illegal. Does it not qualify for tournaments (yes, i now know its a poor one though)? Also, I thought BA army can take landraiders as DT's instead of heavy choice, so the slots for the heavy support are left open.

By the way, i appreciate every advices that I have received so far. Thx.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
1) Also, for extra troops, should i get tactical marines or more assault marines?
I can put tactical marines in landraiders, but those troops are slow on foot for assaults compared to assault squads.

2) I can only get 2 other elites. Should I get terminators, DC dreadnaught, or 2 sanguinary priests?

 BloodAngel88 wrote:
I have just started a BA army. I am not sure if I have a good list, for I have not played a single game yet. I just finished painting them.

I have...

Mephiston
Sanguinor

Sanguinary Guard

Death Company (5 with jump pack) & Lemartes

assault marines x 10

Landraider

Landraider Crusader


How will this list do in a game in general?

Strengths? Weaknesses?

Im new. Please help me if you are an experienced wargamer.

Thx.

First off, you're investing about 1000 points in four models (Meph, Golden Boy and the two Land Raiders). While the two characters are admittedly hard to kill, the fact that they're not ICs will make them such an easy target, and with such few units on the field, more of the enemy's firepower will be concentrated on these units.
As well as few numbers, you have a huge problem with troops: you have two units of troops, the bare minimum for 1500pts, and only one of which is scoring. In short, even if you Combat Squad the Assault Marines in an objective game, you're screwed big time. The Sang Guard and DC could both use some upgrades rather than just Jump Packs and Lemartes. You need some more Troop choices in order to be able to secure a win in objective games.

In short: Get more Assault Marines, drop either Meph or the Golden Boy (just *too* many points invested in two models.), and possibly drop a Land Raider. Then I would invest in maybe some Assault Termies and maybe a Dread or two, but Assault Marines should be your highest priority, either with Jump Packs or MSU style.

 BloodAngel88 wrote:
Forgive me, because im new to the game and this forum, but I don't understand why my list is illegal. Does it not qualify for tournaments (yes, i now know its a poor one though)? Also, I thought BA army can take landraiders as DT's instead of heavy choice, so the slots for the heavy support are left open.

By the way, i appreciate every advices that I have received so far. Thx.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
1) Also, for extra troops, should i get tactical marines or more assault marines?
I can put tactical marines in landraiders, but those troops are slow on foot for assaults compared to assault squads.

2) I can only get 2 other elites. Should I get terminators, DC dreadnaught, or 2 sanguinary priests?

In order to take a landraider a unit must be allowed to take them as a dedicated Transport. In your list the only unit that is allowed is the Death Company if they do not take jumppacks, and the Assault squad if they drop their jump packs.

That is why it is illegal.

Then, would tactical squads be better or assault terminators with lightening claws? If I get terminators, then I can't sang priest, for the termies take the elite slots. However, tactical squads are slow on foot, and if the tank blows up, then they are lost on the middle of the table.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
By the way, the tactical squad or terminators are for the landraiders to come into play legally as DT's.

Wow and I thought I was being a bit harsh

I didn't know that Landraiders are ONLY DT's in BA . Hmmmm....

If you get termies, you can take sang priests. as far as i can see, you have 1 elite choice- Sang guard. 1 out of 3. Terminators makes it 2 of 3. priests make it...3 of 3 (shock horror!)
My recommendation is indeed assault terminators, but only one squad. And only field one land raider at a time- Just pick which one you like better, vanilla pattern or the crusader. I like the crusader myself- I pack my AT in other units, so the anti-infantry dakkadakka of the crusader fits my bill.
I'd equip the assault termies with 3 Thunder hammer/storm shields, and 2 with lightning claws. This gives you a nice mix of capabilities, against marines or lighter troops the LC's can thin them out a little before the thunder hammers strike, and you still want the TH/SS terms for smacking down other terminators, monstrous creatures, instant-deathing T4 models etc... Also it gives them the survivability you want, as its pretty damn hard to chew through 2+ 3++. You know what makes that better? Put a sang priest in there for FNP too
Now- !!!cunning tactic for the newbie!!!- when you assault with your termies out of the raider, DO NOT dismount the priest. Leave him inside. As long as a unit is within 6" of him they get FNP, ya? When he's in the landraider, it's 6" from the hull. So as long as your terminators are within 6" of the landraider, they still get the FNP buff but I your opponent cannot target the priest to remove the buff. If the priest charges in with the term's, I'm gonna punch him down quicksmart to get rid of your FNP. Does that make sense?

I think assault marines are a better choice. Blood angels are assaulty marines- play them to their strength. Having said that, 6th ed is a shooting edition, and I do not play blood angels myself, so a BA player might advise otherwise. Now, someone said to field them either with jumppacks or MSU style. Let me explain that.
Assault marines cannot ride in a transport without removing their jump packs. It's a plus you have the option to do that, and get a cheap transport out of it by doing so (read your codex to find out ). MSU means multiple small units, and is a approach to army building.

My two examples of the opposites, bear with me since it's spacewolves

Full size units (p.s all these units are getting WG leaders )-

10 Grey hunters w/ 2x plasma, wolf standard
10 Grey hunters w/ 2x plasma, wolf standard
9 Grey hunters w/ melta, wolf standard, rhino
9 Grey hunters w/ melta, wolf standard, rhino

Multiple small units-

5 Grey hunters w/ flamer, Lascannon/twin plasmagun Razorback
5 GH w/ flamer, Lasplas back
5 GH w/ flamer, Lasplas back
5 GH w/ flamer, Lasplas back
5 GH w/ flamer, Lasplas back
5 GH w/ flamer, Lasplas back

Now these are both roughly equal in points. So - the MSU army has 6 (12 including transports) elements on the field. The full unit army has 4 (6 inc. transports). The full unit army only has 8 more boots more than the MSU army, so they are actually roughly similar sizes (MSU-30 marines, full- 38 marines). small units have overkill advantage. Lets say I fire at a unit of 10 marines, and cause so many wounds you fail 10 armor saves. Well, in the full list, you lose every mang in the squad. In the MSU army you take off 5 and shrug since theres no more marines to take off. Let's say this happens simultaneously to both armies- suddenly the full army has 28 boots on the ground, but the MSU army has 25. It hasn't suffered as much, especially since it still has 5 units to play with, but the full army has only 3 units to play with. The MSU army has more firepower- the heavy lifting is done by the razorbacks and the marines, not just the marines as in the above example. Play through a first turn in your head- MSU army shoots 6 lascannons downfield, and if they move up they may be in range of plasma targets too. the full army marches/rolls forward, and maybe shoots a couple of plasma shots at anything in range.
Now, I won't keep going on and on But basically- Blood angels can swap the jump packs for transports for dirt cheap. They do MSU really really well. They also do full size units really well too.

SMALL NOTE FOR THE NEW 40K PLAYER- NEVER BUY RHINO's! NEVER EVER EVER EVER EVER BUY THE RHINO KIT! The Razorback kit comes with THE EXACT SAME STUFF, as well as having the razorback turret. YOU DO NOT HAVE TO GLUE THE TOP HATCH ON TO YOUR RAZORBACK/RHINO, so you make the body of it, make the turret, make the rhino hatch, and then you have a glorious vehicle. Do you want to play with a razorback? Put the turret on top. Want to play with a rhino? take off the turret off and put the hatch on. NEVER buy a rhino, BUY RAZORBACKS EVEN IF YOU WANT A RHINO- YOU GET 2 TANKS FOR THE PRICE OF ONE!!!!

In the list above, you need troops. Right now, as others have said, you have 1 scoring unit. You need at least 3 in a 1500+ list. So if the option is Termies (non-scoring) vs Tact squad/Assault squad, I will go with Tact/Assault squads.

Personally, I am not a fan of your list. You have too many points in too few units. You got at least 1200 points in 8 models, 2 which can be one shot on turn one.

Someone can focus fire on your landraider, and shot the assault marines inside. Now you are playing to either table them, or a draw.

1) Right now, I dont think I can buy so many units at once to expand my troops and add in termies to be able to field the landraiders.

After hearing many advices here, I plan to have an eventual list like this:

Mephiston
Sanguinor

Sanguinary Guard, Sanguinary Priest, Assault Terminators (4 TH/SS and 1 LC)

Lemartes and 10 DC assault marines
3 squads of assault marines (10 per squad)

Landraider
Landraider Crusader
(the tanks will switch off depending on weather my opponent has many infantry or many armor units)

Is this a good list for tournaments and regular games?


2) Also for now, would I have a practical and working list if I go...

Mephiston, 10 assault marines, Lemartes, and 5 DC assault marines

or

Sanguinor, Sanguinary Guard, 10 Assault Marines?

I thought that by only fielding part of what I have and without my landraiders, I can lessen the number of my opponent's units against me. Would this work for small scale games?

 BloodAngel88 wrote:
1) Right now, I dont think I can buy so many units at once to expand my troops and add in termies to be able to field the landraiders.

After hearing many advices here, I plan to have an eventual list like this:

Mephiston
Sanguinor

Sanguinary Guard, Sanguinary Priest, Assault Terminators (4 TH/SS and 1 LC)

Lemartes and 10 DC assault marines
3 squads of assault marines (10 per squad)

Landraider
Landraider Crusader
(the tanks will switch off depending on weather my opponent has many infantry or many armor units)

Is this a good list for tournaments and regular games?

oh god no. Too many points on named characters! Way too many points
You don't need Lemartes, or golden boy.
That list appears to be close to the 2000p mark. Holy crapoly 3 named characters in a single list? ease up!
Look- at that many point I'm going to take close to 40 GH. I have more troops than you. My troops shoot better than you. My troops assault just as well as yours, if not better in some cases. My troops are much more tactically flexible. And that's just my troops!
My cheap fast attack will take out your expensive transport/only tank. My heavy support and elites are left to dominate a squad of ass terms and 10 naked DC marines. And I'm pretty sure my Wolf guard terminators could do it solo! Snap up the raider with speeders, and pump the ass terms full of bullets and plasma as they walk up, and assault the last 2-3. Your list is incredibly unbalanced- it is full of expensive elite stuff like landraiders and named characters. Like I said- go get your army/your face thrown in the mud a few times, you'll get a MUCH better grasp on list writing/tactics than listening to us.

 BloodAngel88 wrote:

2) Also for now, would I have a practical and working list if I go...

Mephiston, 10 assault marines, Lemartes, and 5 DC assault marines

or

Sanguinor, Sanguinary Guard, 10 Assault Marines?

I thought that by only fielding part of what I have and without my landraiders, I can lessen the number of my opponent's units against me. Would this work for small scale games?

How many points is it? And probably not, since you will struggle against heavily armored lists- terminators, mech etc. It is hard to be scared of 15 ass marines and expensive named characters, when at a similar points value I'm just gonna send 120 shoota boyz at you. Oh and an obligatory warboss- I'm pretty sure 120 shootaz will chew through 15 marines quicker than 15 marines struggle with 120 shoota boyz

-edit- Where the hell are all the BA players? I play SW for crying out loud, and I'm trying to give advice based on the fact I play MEQ! Someone help this guy out!

1) Hmm... So, lessen the numbers of characters and more troops is what I'm understanding so far.Or am I missing something else? Fast attack, heavy support? If so, then what?

2) How then should I counter those speeders or fast attack that might take out the tanks?

You can take care of the speeders and other fast attak choices of your opponent with the Troop choices everyone has been suggesting. Most fst atk are pretty light, AV 11 or so. That's something a tactical sqd with a razorback could take care of easily with minimal points expended. Upgrade the flamer to plasma gun, split the sqd & the afore mentioned troop choice could deal with 3 fast atks a turn. It would also be 2 scoring units.