Turkey vs Syria

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**Harriticus**

Turkey's military struck targets inside Syria on Wednesday in response to a mortar bomb fired from Syrian territory which killed five Turkish civilians, Prime Minister Tayyip Erdogan's office said in a statement.

"Our armed forces in the border region responded immediately to this abominable attack in line with their rules of engagement; targets were struck through artillery fire against places in Syria identified by radar," the statement said.

"Turkey will never leave unanswered such kinds of provocation by the Syrian regime against our national security."

Foreign Minister Ahmet Davutoglu had spoken by telephone with UN Secretary General Ban Ki-moon and the foreign ministers of several UN Security Council member countries about the incident, the statement said.

The Obama administration said it is "outraged" by the Syrian mortar shell that landed on a home in Turkey, killing at least five people.

Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton said the US is consulting its NATO ally on what she termed a "very dangerous situation."

She plans to speak to Turkish Foreign Minister Ahmet Davutoglu later Wednesday.

Among the dead was a 6-year-old boy. Turkish state media reported angry townspeople marching to the local mayor's office to protest the deaths.

Speaking in Washington, Clinton said Syria's leaders were causing untold suffering to their own people, driven solely by their desire to cling to power.

She said responsible nations worldwide must band together to pressure Syria's government into a cease-fire and a political transition.

NATO ambassadors will meet on Wednesday evening to discuss a mortar bomb fired from Syrian territory which killed five Turkish civilians, a NATO official said.

The official said the ambassadors will meet under Article 4 of the NATO charter which provides for consultations when a member state feels its territorial integrity, political independence or security is under threat.

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4288276,00.html

Potentially dramatic development. Ironic as these two were close allies just 2 years ago.

**Tibbsy**

Also on the BBC: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-19822253

Turkish artillery has fired on positions inside Syria after shells from Syria killed five people in a southern Turkish border town.

A woman and her three children were among those killed earlier when the shells, apparently fired by Syrian government forces, hit Akcakale.

Turkey's response marks the first time it has fired into Syria during the 18-month-long uprising against Syrian President Bashar al-Assad.

Nato ambassadors discussed the crisis.

The military alliance issued a statement saying it "continues to stand by (Nato member) Turkey and demands the immediate cessation of such aggressive acts against an ally, and urges the Syrian regime to put an end to flagrant violations of international law".

Turkey's territory has been hit by fire from Syria on several occasions since the uprising against President Assad began, but Wednesday's incident was the most serious.

In a statement, the office of Turkey's Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan said: "Our armed forces in the border region responded immediately to this abominable attack in line with their rules of engagement."Targets were struck through artillery fire against places in Syria identified by radar.

"Turkey will never leave unanswered such kinds of provocation by the Syrian regime against our national security."

Turkish Foreign Minister Ahmet Davutoglu contacted UN secretary general Ban Ki-moon, the UN's Syria peace envoy Lakhdar Brahimi and Nato secretary general Anders Fogh Rasmussen after the incident.

Mr Ban urged Damascus to respect the territorial sovereignty of its neighbours, saying the cross-border incident "demonstrated how Syria's conflict is threatening not only the security of the Syrian people but increasingly causing harm to its neighbours".

Mr Rasmussen told Turkey's foreign minister that he strongly condemned the incident, a Nato spokeswoman said, and continued to follow developments in the region "closely and with great concern".

Mr Rasmussen has repeatedly said that Nato has no intention of intervening in Syria but stands ready to defend Turkey if necessary.

US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton said: "We are outraged that the Syrians have been shooting across their border... and regretful of the loss of life on the Turkish side."

UK Deputy Prime Minister Nick Clegg, who is in Turkey on a trade and diplomatic visit, said: "We condemn all violence by the Syrian regime and demand that it avoids any repetition of today's incident on the border with Turkey," he said.

Akcakale has been fired on several times over the past few weeks.

The BBC's Jim Muir says Syrian government forces are attempting to cut rebel supply routes by winning back the border crossing at Tall al-Abyad which the rebels seized last month.

Residents have been advised to stay away from the border, and more than 100 schools have been closed in the region because of the violence in neighbouring Syria.

Turkey's state-owned Anatolia news agency reported that angry townspeople had marched to the mayor's office to protest about the deaths on Wednesday.

Town mayor Abdulhakim Ayhan said: "There is anger in our community against Syria," adding that stray bullets and shells had panicked residents over the past 10 days.

Wednesday's attack is believed to be only the second time that people have died as a result of violence spilling over the border from Syria into Turkey.

Two Syrian nationals were killed on Turkish soil in April by stray bullets fired from Syria.

In Syria itself, at least 34 people were killed and dozens wounded in a series of bomb explosions in the centre of Syria's second city, Aleppo, on Wednesday.

The attacks levelled buildings in the city's main square. A military officers' club and a hotel being used by the military bore the brunt of the blasts, some of which were carried out by suicide car bombers.

**Squigsquasher**

Ooooh boy.

It's all going well in the middle east...

**Squidmanlolz**

Feth... Hope my friends in Turkey stay safe. I had friends who lost their lives during the fighting in Egypt and Libya. I don't want to lose more friends.

**dogma**

Harriticus wrote:

Potentially dramatic development. Ironic as these two were close allies just 2 years ago.

They've never been close allies, and have further distanced due to the ongoing civil war in Syria; which has begun spilling over into Turkey. As this story shows.

**Grey Templar**

My money's on Turkey

**Harriticus**

dogma wrote:
Harriticus wrote:

Potentially dramatic development. Ironic as these two were close allies just 2 years ago.

They've never been close allies, and have further distanced due to the ongoing civil war in Syria; which has begun spilling over into Turkey. As this story shows.

The 2008-2009 period was a honeymoon one for the two. Erdogan went vacationing with the Assad families, they held joint anti-Israel conferences, and began joint military exercises. Turkey even sold Assad gunboats which ironically are now being used by him in naval blockades. There was a loose attempt by Erdogan to turn Syria into an ally due to their mutual anti-Israel platforms, but it fell apart from this civil war yes.

**AustonT**

Grey Templar wrote:
My money's on Turkey

Ya Think?

**Frazzled**

Turkey is a member of NATO. Syria has no chance against Belgium...

**dogma**

Harriticus wrote:

The 2008-2009 period was a honeymoon one for the two. Erdogan went vacationing with the Assad families, they held joint anti-Israel conferences, and began joint military exercises. Turkey even sold Assad gunboats which ironically are now being used by him in naval blockades. There was a loose attempt by Erdogan to turn Syria into an ally due to their mutual anti-Israel platforms, but it fell apart from this civil war yes.

But that's a recent development which has much to do with Islam being more and more a part of Turkish public life. Historically the two nations haven't gotten along because the gap between Kemalists and Baathists regarding the role of Islam, Western culture, and democracy.

Erdogan has tried to make an ally of Syria, but they've never been a close ally. Truthfully, Turkey is just trying to find a place for itself in the international system. The EU won't let them in, they're too liberal to be a major player in the Middle East (especially post-Arab Spring), and simply being a member of NATO doesn't say much given that there are serious questions about whether NATO should continue to exist.

**Grey Templar**

I find it odd that Turkey would even qualify to be in NATO. It is the North Atlantic Treaty Organization. Turkey, have an Atlantic coastline it does not.

**dogma**

Grey Templar wrote:
I find it odd that Turkey would even qualify to be in NATO. It is the North Atlantic Treaty Organization. Turkey, have an Atlantic coastline it does not.

Italy doesn't either, and it was a founding member.

**Grey Templar**

dogma wrote:
Grey Templar wrote:
I find it odd that Turkey would even qualify to be in NATO. It is the North Atlantic Treaty Organization. Turkey, have an Atlantic coastline it does not.

Italy doesn't either, and it was a founding member.

They should just amend the name to be WWTBIOTATO(Whoever Wants To Be In On The Action Treaty Organization)

**KalashnikovMarine**

Just when things couldn't get worse XD well at least if Turkey declares war it cuts all the BS in the UN about what we need to with the situation in Syria XD

**sebster**

Grey Templar wrote:
They should just amend the name to be WWTBIOTATO(Whoever Wants To Be In On The Action Treaty Organization)

WWATBOFATO.

Whoever Will Agree To Buy Our 5.56mm Ammunition Treaty Organisation.

And it should be pronounced WAHTBOHFAHTO,

**Lone Cat**

WHAT?!

I supposed that Turkey and Syrian autocrats are allies. they both have some cooperations with China, both have a low opinions upon Jews (they believed that Israel SHOULD NOT EXISTS AT ALL, Jews worths no soverign nations, they are either exists as slaves. or exterminated) and have some 'internal issues' i.e. Kurdish (who's actually proven to be one of the 'Lost Tribes' and closer to Jews than Turks) never kneels to Turks. (and let's hope that the New Byzantium idea is forgotten-forever, otherwise Russians might create a terrorist cell out of those 'greeks' living in Turkey)

Did Syriran regime attack some turkish cities because of territorial dispuite reasons? or did the regime becomes so paranoid that the rulers became distrustful of every countries around them ??

**Albatross**

Finally, a war in the Middle East I can get behind:

One that doesn't involve young British and American lads coming home in bodybags and stretchers. Let 'em sort it out amongst themselves.

**Lone Cat**

Doesn't Turkey wants to flex its muzzle for the first time since Cyprus ?

**rodgers37**

Albatross wrote:
Finally, a war in the Middle East I can get behind:

One that doesn't involve young British and American lads coming home in bodybags and stretchers. Let 'em sort it out amongst themselves.

I'm sure if we had enough soldiers left we'd get involved...

**Huffy**

Lone Cat wrote:
WHAT?!

I supposed that Turkey and Syrian autocrats are allies. they both have some cooperations with China, both have a low opinions upon Jews (they believed that Israel SHOULD NOT EXISTS AT ALL, Jews worths no soverign nations, they are either exists as slaves. or exterminated) and have some 'internal issues' i.e. Kurdish (who's actually proven to be one of the 'Lost Tribes' and closer to Jews than Turks) never kneels to Turks. (and let's hope that the New Byzantium idea is forgotten-forever, otherwise Russians might create a terrorist cell out of those 'greeks' living in Turkey)

I dont think I've understand anything you've written....

And Turkey wont invade, little to no public support by the Turkish population for a regional war. Not to mention some of the other supporters of the rebels such as Saudis might not be thrilled with Turks rolling through Syria.

**Easy E**

Plus, a successful military campaign would make the secularist general's even more popular, which would be bad for Erdogan.

Of course, that assumes Turkey could roll-over Syria, which is not a given.

**Cyrax**

Huffy wrote:
I dont think I've understand anything you've written....

And Turkey wont invade, little to no public support by the Turkish population for a regional war. Not to mention some of the other supporters of the rebels such as Saudis might not be thrilled with Turks rolling through Syria.

He thinks since we're classified as a middle east country we hate jews and apparently we hate kurds because they're the lost jews of Atlantis and he also believes there is a considerable Greek population in our country to be the new Asala. Just please let him rant or he'll try to explain his nonsense more.

**kronk**

Cyrax wrote:
Huffy wrote:
I dont think I've understand anything you've written....

And Turkey wont invade, little to no public support by the Turkish population for a regional war. Not to mention some of the other supporters of the rebels such as Saudis might not be thrilled with Turks rolling through Syria.

He thinks since we're classified as a middle east country we hate jews and apparently we hate kurds because they're the lost jews of Atlantis and he also believes there is a considerable Greek population in our country to be the new Asala. Just please let him rant or he'll try to explain his nonsense more.

I had originally put him on ignore so that I don't have to see his avatar or signature pictures. I had forgotten about his pants-on-head content in his posts and the run-on sentences...

**Lone Cat**

Cyrax wrote:
Huffy wrote:
I dont think I've understand anything you've written....

And Turkey wont invade, little to no public support by the Turkish population for a regional war. Not to mention some of the other supporters of the rebels such as Saudis might not be thrilled with Turks rolling through Syria.

He thinks since we're classified as a middle east country we hate jews and apparently we hate kurds because they're the lost jews of Atlantis and he also believes there is a considerable Greek population in our country to be the new Asala. Just please let him rant or he'll try to explain his nonsense more.

Nonsense? C'mon! I want you to speak the truth! about the foreign relationships between Turkey and Syria. and your policy towards Israels and Greeks living in Turkey.

i mean no harm to you man.

**Cyrax**

Well the truth is

You somehow believe that Syria and Turkey are pals because of some imaginary antisemitic high cause, neglecting Syria having claims over Turkey's Hatay province (Antioch) until 2004, Syria's harboring of PKK for many years and only backing down with a threat of war, having water disputes.

You believe Turkey, the first muslim majority country to recognize Israel, the country who never fought a war against it, the country who saved Jews from Spanish Inquisition and smuggled them out from the third Reich, the country who had military collaborations with it, is antisemitic because some self appointed muslim hippies tried to pass a blockade and get shot. The only real dispute is about natural gas resource near Cyprus and both governments won't take the first step to normalize the relations due to the voting concerns or Iran starts to be a problem.

You also believe there is a considerable Greek population living in Turkey that can be armed by Russians to form the New Byzantium disregarding the population exchange in 1923.

And the most shocking truth is that I actually broke my web-code of not talking serious stuff to stay away from ignorant people for a guy who wear cat ears

Since mods will warn us not to argue any further or just me for my remark at your cat ears, no offense but come on you wear cat ears, I will argue no further. Therefore if you have any more Narnia class knowledge about my country which you would like to check please don't hesitate to send me as many as private messages you want which I'll try my very best not to answer any single of them.

**mattyrm**

The Turkish soldiers I had the misfortune to work with in Kabul were worse than useless.

That said, Turks are moderate Muslims who let you get pissed, and Syrians are proper ones.

So I wish Turkey the best of luck. Considering they suck, I think the Turks would win, but take heavy casualties along the way.

**Cyrax**

Thank you for your heart warming wish of luck.

**mattyrm**

Cyrax wrote:
Thank you for your heart warming wish of luck.

Lol.

Funny.. it didn't sound that harsh when I typed it.

You shouldn't take it too harshly, I'm an elitist green beret so I think almost everyone sucks!

On the plus side, you lads spend $18 billion a year on your military, so I think its a safe bet the Turk Silahlı Kuvvetleri can happily smash the Syrians.

Won't happen though will it? I mean.. the enemy of my enemy is my friend? Its not like you guys like the Israelis very much either!

**Frazzled**

Looks like their legislature authorized a full year of action against Syria if needed. When the US does that its effectively a declaration of war....

**Lone Cat**

Cyrax wrote:
Well the truth is

You somehow believe that Syria and Turkey is pals because of some imaginary antisemitic high cause, neglecting Syria having claims over Turkey's Hatay province (Antioch) until 2004, Syria's harboring of PKK for many years and only backing down with a threat of war, having water disputes.

You believe Turkey, the first muslim majority country to recognize Israel, the country who never fought a war against it, the country who saved Jews from Spanish Inquisition and smuggled them out from the third Reich, the country who had military collaborations with it, is antisemitic because some self appointed muslim hippies tried to pass a blockade and get shot. The only real dispute is about natural gas resource near Cyprus and both governments won't take the first step to normalize the relations due to the voting concerns or Iran starts to be a problem.

You also believe there is a considerable Greek population living in Turkey that can be armed by Russians to form the New Byzantium disregarding the population exchange in 1923.

And the most shocking truth is that I actually broke my web-code of not talking serious stuff to stay away from ignorant people for a guy who wear cat ears

Since mods will warn us not to argue any further or just me for my remark at your cat ears, no offense but come on you wear cat ears, I will argue no further. Therefore if you have any more Narnia class knowledge about my country which you would like to check please don't hesitate to send me as many as private messages you want which I'll try my very best not to answer any single of them.

Thanks. but I don't appreciate the remarks villifying feline attires i'm wearing in my avatar and signature and a vow to provides no answer to any 'history lessions' you think i will ask you about that.

so now I drop the 'Turks VS Israelites, Turkey a friend of Syria, and Greeks still living in Turkey and longing for Russian help' remarks.

what will you say about this?