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Made in us
Dakka Veteran




Somewhere in the Galactic East

As an avid user of the Vanquisher circa 5th Edition, I cannot describe how estatic I am about it getting a mighty buff with Sixth Edition!

Armorbane + AP2 Turret Weapon, 4 Hull Points (If I've read it correctly), with the option of taking Multi-Melta Sponsons and Hull Mounted Las Cannons + AP 1 Weaponry has transformed my armor into the proper tank-hunting menace!

I've noticed that with the release of the new edition (and FAQ) has made the other pattern russes a little more desirable than the standard Leman Russ staple. More situaltionally sound, probably, but definately more alluring than last Edition, epsecially with Focus Fire (especially the Exterminator and Punisher). Now that shooting through units is +5 cover save, Hordes are more death prone!

Vendetta spam be darned!

So I was wondering if anyone else who uses the 'Forgotten Patterns' have noticed an uptick in gameplay? Maybe discovered a new tactic?

182nd Ebon Hawks - 2000 Points
"We descend upon them like lightning from a cloudless sky."

Va'Krata Sept - 2500 Points
"The barbarian Gue'la deserve nothing but a swift death in a shallow grave." 
   
Made in gb
Lord of the Fleet






London

LRBTs only have 3 Hull Points.
   
Made in us
Plastictrees






Salem, MA

The "Heavy" rule makes plasma cannon sponsons more worthwhile, since both can always fire. I'm hearing good things about the Nova Cannon + plasma cannon sponsons as a versatile troop killer.

"The complete or partial destruction of the enemy must be regarded as the sole object of all engagements.... Direct annihilation of the enemy's forces must always be the dominant consideration." Karl von Clausewitz 
   
Made in us
Heroic Senior Officer





Western Kentucky

Executioners are the most awesome overkill that I've found yet after the lumbering behemoth faq. Stick some plasma sponsons on it and you have a leman russ that's spitting out 5 plasma blasts a turn. And since the turret doesn't get hot, you only glance yourself once every 4 turns or so if I remember correctly. They're expensive, but you definitely get what you paid for (in a good way) it usually annihilates its own weight in points worth of units or more on the first turn, and it really scares anyone with infantry on the field.

Next up for me to try is the punisher. I don't really need it that much, as horde guard has so much lasguns there's not a huge need for more antihorde, but it looks like lots of fun. Once i get a demolisher kit it'll be one of the first I try.

Exterminators are fun too, but when a typical list I have can get something like 10-15 autocannons easily, I just dont have a need for it. Still a solid tank though.

'I've played Guard for years, and the best piece of advice is to always utilize the Guard's best special rule: "we roll more dice than you" ' - stormleader

"Sector Imperialis: 25mm and 40mm Round Bases (40+20) 26€ (Including 32 skulls for basing) " GW design philosophy in a nutshell  
   
Made in gb
Junior Officer with Laspistol





I adore the Executioner. It makes short work of all the MEQ I come against.

I've had horrible luck using the Exterminator. Everyone says how good it is but it either fails to kill anything, gets blown up on turn two, or immobilises itself when I try to move it. I've been favoring the vanilla Russ over it recently, just to save on the 20 points of sponsons.

I generally use it as back up fire power for my platoon. Sitting behind the ADL making the fire lane more dangerous. Is this optimal? Or should I be using if differently, more aggressively like I do with the Executioner? Or am I just unlucky?


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FAQs 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran




Somewhere in the Galactic East

 Griddlelol wrote:


I generally use it as back up fire power for my platoon. Sitting behind the ADL making the fire lane more dangerous. Is this optimal? Or should I be using if differently, more aggressively like I do with the Executioner? Or am I just unlucky?


Exterminators are all about aggression. Taking the fight to the enemy and popping transports/light support tanks with impunity. I run a squadroned pair alongside my Vanquisher, maybe two pairs if its a large game.


182nd Ebon Hawks - 2000 Points
"We descend upon them like lightning from a cloudless sky."

Va'Krata Sept - 2500 Points
"The barbarian Gue'la deserve nothing but a swift death in a shallow grave." 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




I think the Exterminator is a fine tank per se but it doesn't bring anything to the table that IG cannot get from an infantry platform.

The other Russ variants bring unique fire power to the table and some devastatingly so.

I have much better results running the Executioner, LRBT and Demolisher than the exterminator.

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Made in nz
Major




Middle Earth

I've always been a fan of both the executioner and the vanquisher

While both expensive they can easily make their points back and are easy to fit into a guard list (on account of everything else being so cheap)

We're watching you... scum. 
   
Made in us
Hurr! Ogryn Bone 'Ead!





WA

I have also been disappointed by the Exterminator. I want it to work, but it just falls short. I have been running it with PC Sponsons and they do more than the main cannon. Right now it is acting as a mobile, solid platform for the PC Sponsons.

The Executioner is king with the heavy change. Give it PC Sponsons and it destroys. It can kill Terminator squads twice over in a single turn.

The Eradicator is alright. I have been thinking about running one, but just cannot bring myself to do it. The main turret is simply lacking. If it had even a slight increase to the AP I would be taking it, but AP 4 is not really needed for a guard army, at least not more than majority of us already take.

The LRBT is slightly worse, that HB being able to fire was a benefit, without t, this one should sit out. Same with Demolisher. Artillery is just a better buy now.

And lastly the vanquisher, I do not like this tank. Never did. The hitting on 50% of the time and simply not being that great has encouraged me to take other tanks over it.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/10/05 02:29:42


 
   
Made in us
Tough-as-Nails Ork Boy





Chicago

The Punisher + a Psyker.

Put it next to a psyker that has the divination power that lets a unit re-roll to hit. Now you have a heavy 20 re-rolling misses gatling gun. Who cares if it's AP - ? The re-roll power is the primaris ability so you don't have to rely on luck to get it.

Oh, while you're at it take a squadron of them. Now you have 40+ shots re-rolling misses. That is one hell of a lot of dakka.
   
Made in us
Humorless Arbite





Maine

I like the Vanquisher in an armored company. I have always liked the Exterminator too. The changes to LB have me concidering the Conqueror (a FW variant) for a change. The Conqueror makes a good support tank for mech guard from a fluff stand point.

Voxed from Salamander 84-24020
 
   
Made in ca
Longtime Dakkanaut





Toronto

Eh, I'll use my vulture for that.

The exterminator is a solid workhorse tank, its main strengths are it's reliability and it's versatility. It will always hit and wound what you shoot it at, and you can shoot it at pretty much any target. Don't expect it to pull out miracles or wipe units like other russ variants can. It's simply shovels more bullets into the furnace. It's part of a greater whole.

Vanquishers got at least semi-useful with the new heavy changes. Lascannon and multimeltas mean it will reliably wreck pretty much anything in range. I still think it's fairly situational, and overkill against most vehicles.


Also, I wish people would stop looking at the conquerer with sparkly eyes. IT DOES NOT HAVE LUMBERING BEHEMOTH, THEREFORE DOES NOT HAVE HEAVY. It can fire one weapon on the move. It can't even make use of it's coaxial heavy stubber now. Take a LRBT.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2012/10/05 03:55:26


   
Made in us
Whiteshield Conscript Trooper




NorCal

Only problem with the Vanquisher is the 50% chance of night fight hamstrings what it was born to do, which is destroy vehicles at extreme range. I've basically phased it out in favor of Executioners simply because they DOMINATE anything not AV 14.

I almost never see Land Raiders or other heavy tanks anymore since the introduction of Hull Points, so that's another mark against them.

That said, against skimmer lists or the occasional mounted infantry army, the Vanquisher is still going to put in work.

Exterminators are meh, sure it's a good fire platform but for what it costs I'd rather just have a Vanilla russ.

Eradicator is still terrible.

Demolisher is the workhorse it always was

Punisher with a buffer of infantry squads and the Psyker mentioned earlier can get out of hand VERY fast.
   
Made in us
Daemonic Dreadnought






Is the vanquisher cannon still ordinance?

Chaos isn’t a pit. Chaos is a ladder. Many who try to climb it fail, and never get to try again. The fall breaks them. And some are given a chance to climb, but refuse. They cling to the realm, or love, or the gods…illusions. Only the ladder is real. The climb is all there is, but they’ll never know this. Not until it’s too late.


 
   
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Hurr! Ogryn Bone 'Ead!





WA

It never was... It has a special rule about armor pen, but not the ordnance rule

 
   
Made in us
Heroic Senior Officer





Western Kentucky

 schadenfreude wrote:
Is the vanquisher cannon still ordinance?

Never was, it's a heavy weapon with 2d6 pen like a melta weapon. Unless it was back in the older codexes that is.

I've tried the exterminator and found it meh as well. Mainly just because I bring so many autocannons, I don't really need any more on a russ. I'd rather have my leman russes with lascannons back (oh well, I can dream)

Now, I'm looking into converting what russes I have to exectutioners with plasma sponsons. I'm not sure whether or not to buy lascannons or not though for them.

What sad is now that the russ is just it's splatcannon, it's not as versatile anymore unless you just want to bring 6 for a wall of AV 14. I can get a longer ranged and stronger basilisk cannon and do the same thing, if I hide it. But in all honesty, all I ever find myself wanting more of is plasma. Guardsmen kill themselves too much for me to like it there, so I'll just take 3 exectutioners, the dozens of lasguns, 20 or so heavy weapons, and call it a day. If that combination can't kill what i need it too then I don't know what will

'I've played Guard for years, and the best piece of advice is to always utilize the Guard's best special rule: "we roll more dice than you" ' - stormleader

"Sector Imperialis: 25mm and 40mm Round Bases (40+20) 26€ (Including 32 skulls for basing) " GW design philosophy in a nutshell  
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





Vallejo, CA

I still like the exterminator. For only 20 points more than 2x autocannon HWSs, instead of 6 S7 hits, you get 3 S7 and 4.5 S5 hits. The firepower isn't quite as good, but the russ is going to be on the table the whole game, while the HWSs will blow away like a fart on the breeze, likely giving your opponent first blood in the process. It exists to shred light vehicles and it does that very well. They're the russ that benefitted most form 6th ed's edition of HP to transports.

As for the vanquisher, it's still not worth it no matter how much I want it to be. It's still only one shot at BS3. It doesn't ignore cover. That, right there, means that you're only doing ANYTHING 1/4 of the time. Then you add the fact that 2D6 still has plenty of room to fail to pen AV14. And then, with Ap of only 2, you only have a 1 in 3 chance of wrecking the vehicle.

The odds of the vanquisher doing what you brought the vanquisher to do are terrible, which is why I still don't field them anymore.

In my brief foray into multimelta sponsons, I put it on an exterminator. This setup kills everything but AV14 better than the vanquisher, which is a LOT, and it's 5 points cheaper to boot.


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Made in us
Dakka Veteran




Somewhere in the Galactic East

 Ailaros wrote:
\The odds of the vanquisher doing what you brought the vanquisher to do are terrible, which is why I still don't field them anymore.


Strange. Mine always manages to kill the vehicles I want dead or that need to die (Anything Necron, Land Raiders, Other Russ', and even Hammer Heads), which makes up for its points almost instantly. That's what it's for and only the Vendetta can really compete against it in that regard. Being in the shadow actually makes the Vanquisher a little more effective since almost everyone expects a Guard player to whip out Vendettas in every game.

As for the vanquisher, it's still not worth it no matter how much I want it to be. It's still only one shot at BS3. It doesn't ignore cover. That, right there, means that you're only doing ANYTHING 1/4 of the time. Then you add the fact that 2D6 still has plenty of room to fail to pen AV14. And then, with Ap of only 2, you only have a 1 in 3 chance of wrecking the vehicle.


Now I've read all of your Battle Reports concerning 6th edition and I find it odd that you would readily pass judgement on a unit on paper when the more 'MathHammer firendly' options have utterly failed you when needed the most on more than one occasion (moreso against the Necrons).

182nd Ebon Hawks - 2000 Points
"We descend upon them like lightning from a cloudless sky."

Va'Krata Sept - 2500 Points
"The barbarian Gue'la deserve nothing but a swift death in a shallow grave." 
   
Made in us
Daemonic Dreadnought






Math hammer vanquisher v hammerhead/devilfish rounding the to pen roll up to an autopen.

1/2 hit, 1/3 get past jink+disruption pods, 1/3 explode = 18 shots.

A squadron of 3 vanquishers should be able to explode one in 6 turns.

It's good for land raiders, russes, and monoliths, but not tau Skimmers with dpods.

Chaos isn’t a pit. Chaos is a ladder. Many who try to climb it fail, and never get to try again. The fall breaks them. And some are given a chance to climb, but refuse. They cling to the realm, or love, or the gods…illusions. Only the ladder is real. The climb is all there is, but they’ll never know this. Not until it’s too late.


 
   
Made in us
Heroic Senior Officer





Western Kentucky

The reason Ailaros does that is because he has horrible luck.

If the mathhammer friendly option is rolling bad, then the hail mary type unit is going to do REALLY bad

'I've played Guard for years, and the best piece of advice is to always utilize the Guard's best special rule: "we roll more dice than you" ' - stormleader

"Sector Imperialis: 25mm and 40mm Round Bases (40+20) 26€ (Including 32 skulls for basing) " GW design philosophy in a nutshell  
   
Made in gb
Junior Officer with Laspistol





Brian P wrote:The Punisher + a Psyker.

Or a vulture for less points.

Ailaros wrote:I still like the exterminator. For only 20 points more than 2x autocannon HWSs, instead of 6 S7 hits, you get 3 S7 and 4.5 S5 hits. The firepower isn't quite as good, but the russ is going to be on the table the whole game, while the HWSs will blow away like a fart on the breeze, likely giving your opponent first blood in the process. It exists to shred light vehicles and it does that very well. They're the russ that benefitted most form 6th ed's edition of HP to transports.


This is why I want to use it. So much potential. Although it's never lasted past turn 3. For some reason it's targeted before my Executioner, even though by that point the plasma has killed a squad or two, and the dakka boat has maybe popped a transport. My infantry with autocannons normally deal with transports anyway. Especially since I can BID or FOMT if they pop smoke.

Ailaros wrote:As for the vanquisher, it's still not worth it no matter how much I want it to be. It's still only one shot at BS3. It doesn't ignore cover. That, right there, means that you're only doing ANYTHING 1/4 of the time. Then you add the fact that 2D6 still has plenty of room to fail to pen AV14. And then, with Ap of only 2, you only have a 1 in 3 chance of wrecking the vehicle.


This is why I won't touch it with a barge pole. Not to mention night fighting.

I could try being aggressive with the Exterminator, but I feel that there's no reason, it's just going to get out of position or my opponent will use it as cover to block my infantry's fire lanes.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/10/05 16:11:03



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FAQs 
   
Made in us
Douglas Bader






BS 3 is why god gave us coax guns. Buy a coax heavy stubber for your vanquisher and you should be able to twin-link the main gun most of the time, bringing your hit rate up to a much more consistent 75%.

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Made in us
Hurr! Ogryn Bone 'Ead!





WA

Few problems with that, coax guns are not available in the IG codex, and they only have a range of 36" when the gun has a range of 72". Kind of forces you to bring the vanq a lot closer to the action than it should be imo

 
   
Made in my
Regular Dakkanaut





BS 3 is why god gave us coax guns. Buy a coax heavy stubber for your vanquisher and you should be able to twin-link the main gun most of the time, bringing your hit rate up to a much more consistent 75%.



Where did you get this rule about coax guns? I have the codex & FAQ in front of me & I can't seem to find it?
   
Made in us
Douglas Bader






 UMGuy wrote:
Few problems with that, coax guns are not available in the IG codex, and they only have a range of 36" when the gun has a range of 72". Kind of forces you to bring the vanq a lot closer to the action than it should be imo


They're available in the IG codex because GW has published a book saying "this is a heavy support choice for an IG army". And sure, 36" range isn't always going to be enough, but usually it will. It's rare that an opponent is going to want to stay back with their vehicles (especially transports), and 36" from a good deployment spot covers a pretty big area.

 MarshallDin wrote:
Where did you get this rule about coax guns? I have the codex & FAQ in front of me & I can't seem to find it?


http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Downloads/Product/PDF/i/IA1update28AUG.pdf


This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/10/05 22:33:44


There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices. 
   
Made in us
Hurr! Ogryn Bone 'Ead!





WA

 Peregrine wrote:
"this is a heavy support choice for an IG army"



And where is this?

 
   
Made in us
Douglas Bader






 UMGuy wrote:
 Peregrine wrote:
"this is a heavy support choice for an IG army"



And where is this?


In IA1 (the original entry this pdf updates) and IA:Apocalypse 2 where it lists which units are available to which armies. The pdf rules provide an additional upgrade option for a LR Vanquisher.

There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices. 
   
Made in gb
Member of a Lodge? I Can't Say






I've always thought running a squadron of 3 punishers with HB sponsons could be fun. 87 S5 shots per turn is going to ruin anybody's day.

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Tunneling Trygon





Bradley Beach, NJ

 edbradders wrote:
I've always thought running a squadron of 3 punishers with HB sponsons could be fun. 87 S5 shots per turn is going to ruin anybody's day.

I've done this. In fact, I've had game's where I ran 5 Punishers. It's incredibly fun until they start getting popped.

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Made in us
Humorless Arbite





Maine

 McGibs wrote:
Eh, I'll use my vulture for that.

Also, I wish people would stop looking at the conquerer with sparkly eyes. IT DOES NOT HAVE LUMBERING BEHEMOTH, THEREFORE DOES NOT HAVE HEAVY. It can fire one weapon on the move. It can't even make use of it's coaxial heavy stubber now. Take a LRBT.


Yeah, that is why it is worth taking. It has the same movement ability as a chimera. From a narrative point of view it is the 'not slow tank' and now the Laser Tank Destroyer is the not slow antitank tank. Can't have my blood thirsty Armoured fist squads being held up by heavy tanks! You can also still use the coaxial weapon, it is just snap fired. Not as useful as it was, but I don't think the coaxial weapons ever really worked out for me in the past anyway because it was 4th Ed and I was always using the Vanquisher from long range. I ignored the conqueror because it was str7 ap4 I think.

I just can't roll the Vulture without the punisher cannons.

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