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I am new to warhammer, I have been playing 40k so I have been working on getting into fantasy but have been having issues getting foothold of the tactics for my skaven army, and where to grow after 1000 points. I recently played WoC with
1x Warlord (General)
1x Chieftain with BSB 1x Warlock Engineer with wizard level 2 and Ruin spells (mainly for Warp Lightning)
5x Giant Rat and Packmaster (to speed bump the stronger units)
4x Rat Ogre and Packmaster
40x Clanrats with Shield and Spear/Full Command (Warlord goes here, aggressive group) with Poisoned Wind
40x Clanrats with Shield/Full Command (Engineer and BSB go here) with Poisoned Wind
--
Turn one he moved his knights, warriors, and naked barbarian troops up, cast and I dispelled. I moved up and cast warp lightning, dispelled with double 6s, fired 2 poisoned wind mortars at the warrior group and killed a good 6 of them. I was attempting to get the rat ogres and giant rats in the way of the knights to tie them up, but they still had a good shot and the knights frenzy charged my warlord group. My warlord killed one knight, and the (something like 15?) 3 ranks of spear rats that attacked back killed another, but this was after he killed 14 rats. S5 means no armor saves, and with mark of khorne he just obliterated them. So it was impossible to pass a leadership test, and they broke and ran off the board (how is that supposed to be countered? Especially with the +1 to run distance). His barbarians charged my rat ogres, and killed 2 of them, but I killed 5 back, and because they are immune to psychology they didn't break. However now that my entire group of warlord and spear clanrats were just broken and ran turn 2, it went downhill from there.
I am curious, am I simply failing because I'm quite green with my movements and likely am not planning them properly? Is it a problem with the list? Or are WoC simply that strong? Just curious how I should proceed, I posted a thread here
How many knights did he have? I see he killed 14 rats, I assume 5 wide if not they should be you still had 5 ranks meaning you are steadfast if he does not have more ranks then you, so you would test on a: Warlord Ld7 if in range +ranks due to strength in numbers you should have 40-14=26/5 5 ranks so lets just say LD10 with BSB rerolls. Since you're new you probably figured Ld10 but minus the 13 or so plus for combat res, so it was double 1s or running.
For a more competitive list I would run that warlock naked with a doomrocket, no spells, and instead of the warlord a gray seer, stick him in a unit of 20-30 rats and add to the other clanrat unit so they have more ranks and try and keep the seer unit out of combat, I'd also stick the BSB in this unit since he's has no protection.
So how to expand... you're looking good I would treat yourself to some toys a Warp Lightening Cannon or 2, some gutter runners are nice, but then you need more rats another 40, you can buy the IoB ones on ebay fairly cheap try and stick to the hand weapon/shield ones as they get the parry save that is beneficial. Then you can start making units of slaves. This should get you through 1500 then you can get more toys, hell pits, doomwheels, more ogres, maybe a screaming bell or some plague monks with furnace.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/10/04 20:43:48
Thus, After having thus successively taken each member of the community in its powerful grasp and fashioned him at will, the supreme power then extends its arm over the whole community. It covers the surface of society with a network of small complicated rules, minute and uniform, through which the most original minds and the most energetic characters cannot penetrate, to rise above the crowd. The will of man is not shattered, but softened, bent, and guided; men are seldom forced by it to act, but they are constantly restrained from acting. Such a power does not destroy, but it prevents existence; it does not tyrannize, but it compresses, enervates, extinguishes, and stupefies a people, till each nation is reduced to nothing better than a flock of timid and industrious animals, of which the government is the shepherd
-Alexis de Tocqueville.
I'm going to disagree with Hargus about the Grey Seer at 1,000 points. Coming in naked at 240 points means he will have no defensive ability whatsoever, and the last thing you want is your general getting squished.
Your Clan Rat units are good, though at 1,000 points generally only need to be 30 strong to last. Clan Rats aren't really the killiest unit in the game, while Warriors of Chaos are among the best Core out there. Skaven generally need to thin some ranks before engaging them, and it doesn't look like you have much ranged kill in your list.
1. Get a Warp Lightning Cannon, maybe 2 but expect dirty looks at low points with 2. They are perhaps one of the best artillery pieces out there. It will take a little bit of practice getting used to ranging their fire, but when a small template explodes in the middle of an enemy block, it's a beautiful thing.
2. Rat Ogres have decent killing, but really aren't all that great for their cost. They have no armor and are only T4, so it's not all that difficult to bring them down.
3. Clan Rats. I know the IoB sets come with a bunch of spear rats, but you should consider clipping down the spears to use as hand weapons for the parry save. If you want a killing block, Stormvermin are worth the extra 2.5ppm (by the time you account for shields on clan rats).
Quick sample 1,000 list below. I usually fill in the last 100ish points with a small unit of Poisoned Wind Globadiers. PWGs are allowed to fire into any combat, even one involving clan rats, so at low points they tend to be viable enough. Not so much as you go up, sadly, as slaves come to the forefront for skaven armies as tarpits.
I will definitely be incorporating some of this. I believe the spears will have to go, as the 6+ ward save is too useful. I like using my little giant rat squads as well for tactical reasons, however I feel as though there may be a rule I am not understanding. Can someone clarify this for me, or what page in the rulebook I should be reading? I have read that when giant rats are run with 2 wide and 3 deep, the packmaster cannot be killed in a single initiative phase of combat if he is in the back. Why is this? I am unsure what rule would keep a wound form being put on the packmaster. Thanks!
**EDIT**
Also I can't quite decide how I want to tweak between the 2 suggesstions, is the Grey Seer really that squishy without gear? It really seems like he would bring some series killy potential with Thirteenth Spell. Would a warp lightning cannon be more killy then that?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/10/06 04:27:10
Telsiph wrote: I will definitely be incorporating some of this. I believe the spears will have to go, as the 6+ ward save is too useful. I like using my little giant rat squads as well for tactical reasons, however I feel as though there may be a rule I am not understanding. Can someone clarify this for me, or what page in the rulebook I should be reading? I have read that when giant rats are run with 2 wide and 3 deep, the packmaster cannot be killed in a single initiative phase of combat if he is in the back. Why is this? I am unsure what rule would keep a wound form being put on the packmaster. Thanks!
**EDIT**
Also I can't quite decide how I want to tweak between the 2 suggesstions, is the Grey Seer really that squishy without gear? It really seems like he would bring some series killy potential with Thirteenth Spell. Would a warp lightning cannon be more killy then that?
I would recommend a grey seer. Yes he has no defensive gear, But he should be parked 24" inches away going "SHAZAM!" and blasting lightning at his foes and casting dreaded thirteenth every turn.
