Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I have a crap ton of BT and Orkz. Very happy with them both, but would like to start another army. I do like Chaos but A) theyre gonna be the the new "IN " codex with the new releases and B) Id like to run an Alpha Legion army and Ill run SM models to keep them fluffy. So it boils down to IG and Nids.

Im looking to start the new army at 750 and see how it goes. I realize IG is going to be a lot of armor but I know nothing about Nids. What is a good place to start and pros and cons of each?

The armies start out rather similar. With guard you have a foot horde which is a lot of gribblies that like shooting, and have access to spawning units. Same with tyranid. Likewise, guard can do some more "elite" troops that are a little tougher, and a little killier. Same for 'nids.

The real difference is what support options look like. In the case of guard, they have AV12 horde and access to a lot of AV14. They tend to have more, weaker units, that are more specialized. Tyranid on the other hand have MCs. They have many fewer of them, but they're much tougher. They also tend to be more generally killy. A dakkafex is a dakkafex, while guard have access to hydras for AA and basilisks for anit-MEq, and manticores for anti-horde, etc.

In the end, the two are likely going to be rather similar. The question is more one of aesthetics. Do you want simple, brave heroes of the imperium making the ultimate sacrifice for the good of all mankind supported by the thunderous barrage of artillery? Do you want the unknowable alien menace lurking in the dark, preparing to feed unceasingly on anything foolish enough to fall into its lair?

I want.......both? Haha. I did buy a basic Cadian box but only made one guy because Im not sure how I should load them out. What is the basic Nid troop? Ill pick em up and see how it goes.

termagaunts.

If you want a foot horde, look in to conscripts, which have the ability to respawn from deployment, and tervigons, which are a monstrous creature that spawns more termagaunts from the MC.

 Ailaros wrote:
termagaunts.

If you want a foot horde, look in to conscripts, which have the ability to respawn from deployment, and tervigons, which are a monstrous creature that spawns more termagaunts from the MC.

I have the IG codex and I understand "Send In The Next Wave" but for the Tervigon, do I simply buy a crap ton of models to spawn?

IG are also more competitive than Nids. IG also have flyers while at best Nids have FMC. Nids are more CC focused while IG is pretty much all shooting focused. The majority of Nid weapons are short range (12-24") and high AP value (4 to - is the most common, very few AP 1-3). All of our weapons are assault weapons so moving, shooting, and assaulting isn't an issue. Nids also have a LOT of psykers, my 1500 point lists usually have between 3-6 psykers. I don't know as much about IG but in general they just shoot everything until it is dead.

Nids troops are:
Termagants - basic shooting guy, very cheap and come standard with the equivalent of a bolt pistol but can be upgraded to put out a ton of shots at 18".
Tervigon - For every 1 unit of Termagants you take, you can take 1 Tervigon as a troop choice. Tervigons are normally HQ choices. They are psykers, T6 W6, and can produce 3D6 basic termagants a turn but will run out if you roll a double (Mine tend to last between 1-2 turns). They are not great HQ's but awesome as troops and can hold objectives like a rock.
Hormagaunts - basic assault unit. More expensive than a Termagant and with more expensive upgrades. They are fast and great at swarming an enemy. Comes with 2 base attacks at I5, so faster than a Marine, and can reroll 1's to hit.
Genestealers - a lot weaker in 6th ed than they use to be in 5th. These are more the elite assault unit. They are really fast, rending attacks let them destroy vehicles easily, but don't have assault grenades, and a 5+ armor save means bolters eat them alive. They are a lot more expensive than Hormagaunts so a swarm of them is very expensive.
Tyranid Warriors - These are the all around unit. T4 W3, a good WS and fair BS. They can be outfitted in a wide variety of ways. They can be really good TEQ with boneswords and lashwhips and you can give them a decent gun too. The only problem is that they are extremely prone to ID. One good shot from a S8+ blast can wipe out 120+ points worth of models easily. Krak missles are also a big problem for Warriors.
Rippers - just ignore them for the most part.

Hmmm. I really want a shooty list which is why I want IG but Nids are sounding better and better. Anybody want to chime in on a basic IG build and a good loadout for the Cadian box I have?

so, the usual way of doing IG nowadays is to take vets as your troops choice, give them 3x plasma or 3x melta and possibly a special weapon and then stick them in a chimera. A few of these squads gives you a shield wall behind which hides a bunch of powerful guns. Of course, you can also do foot guard, but that's more tricky, as the way that guard used to do foot horde a few months ago in 5th is now gone. You can read my 6th ed battle reports to get a feel for how foot guard are running right now, at least, the way I've been doing it.

For tyranid, they used to be very choppy in their old codex, but now, from what other tyranid players have told me, they really are a shooty army. They don't have many big, high-strength blasts, but their monstrous creatures can put out a terrifying amount of mid-strength firepower, which is what 6th edition is all about now. Nidzilla is still rather good from what little I've seen.

As for the tervagon in specific, it's a T6 W6 monstrous creature that rolls to see how many termagaunts it spawns every turn. Whatever you roll, you make a new unit of that size that is then free to run around and kill stuff.

Tyranids are in a better place in 6th than they were in 5th, but they're still middle teir.

You'll find yourself still gravitating to the same units - Flyrants, Tyrants and the Swarmlord for HQ's. Flyrants you'll want with two pairs of devourers, which will be your chief anti-air firepower, and double as anti-tank up to AV12. Walking Tyants with either lashwhip and bonesword or more devourers, in broods of Tyrant Guard, or the Swarmlord, with some Tyrant Guard, as a mobile melee deathstar, albeit a slow one. The Swarmlord is a really good force multiplier and psychic power flinger as well.

For troops, you'll still end up with Termagants with either Fleshborers or, again, Devourers, and Tervigons. It's a good choice, resiliant, and can make more scoring troops. Hormagaunts are good in large broods, though you're better off with either all Termagants and Tervigons or all massed Hormagaunts. Genestealers were taken down a peg with the removal of assaulting from reserve removed, but they're still a great shock assault unit if you can deliver them in good shape.

Elite is still all about Zoanthropes and Hive Guard. Zoanthropes with Biomancy have a chance to get Enfeeble, Hemmorage or Endurace, all of which are great, and can swap Warp Speed or Iron Arm for Smite, which isn't bad. You get to roll twice, so chaances of getting both Iron Arm and Warp Speed are small (it does happen though - one game both my Zoanthropes ended up with these, which effectively meant they just had Smite). I'm still undecided on Hive Guard. With the addition of Hull Points, MC's with Devourers can do a Hive Guards job well (anti-tank against AV12), so I haven't beed using mine the last few games.

Fast Attack is all about the Gargoyles. They're fast, they hit hard with both upgrades, and they're dirt fething cheap. If you don't take at least a brood of them, you're doing yourself a disservice. 80 points for 10 is a great distraction brood.

Heavy Support is still dominated by the Trygon. It's faster, tougher and hits harder than the Carnifex. it's downside is the model is gigantic, and won't find LOS blocking cover anywhere, and will struggle to even find cover to give it a cover save. The Tyrannofex is popular for its Assault 2 S10 gun, but at BS 3, it's effectiveness isn't too great, and at nearly 300pts, it's very pricey.

There's units, however, that can be effective depending entirely on your meta.

Tyranid Warriors are very good in a meta that lacks ranged anti-tank. On paper, they're tough bastards with great access to mid ranged firepower. In practice, a single krak missile will instant kill one. So if your meta lacks much in the way of massed anti-tank firepower, Tyranid Warriors can work well.

Shrikes and Raveners fall into the same category, but provide fast moving, hard hitting assault. With Shrikes, you have a great companion unit to some Gargoyles due to synapse that can shred any unit in assault, thanks to being one of (the only?) units left in the game with access to a weapon that ignores all armour at the users Initiative (boneswords). Raveners with Rending Claws are a good flanking unit. These are, again, based on there being not a lot of ranged anti tank firepower.

I still get perfectly good use out of my Carnifexes. They're slower and not as tough as a Trygon, but that one caveat - model size - saves them every game. We mostly use GW buildings for terrain, or things of equal size, which lets me completely hide them until I'm ready to have them do their job - hit hard.

As for overall tactics, you'll find yourself using both mid ranged firepower and assault. Generally, shooting is used as a way to soften up units and mop them up with a good application of scything talons to the face. All shooting or all assault armies tend to lack either anti tank from shooting to the sheer number of hits generated from assault to be scary.

I am biased admittedly, but I suggest Tyranids for the sake of diversity. No one worries about a lack of Imperial armies to play against, we need more xenos!

Plus, Tyranids eat IG. Literally.

There are certainly more guard players, but I don't know if there's necessarily a lack of guard players. I feel like most powergamers have since moved on from guard. At least at my FLGS, it's almost entirely GK, DE, and BA... and that's basically it.

Of course, that might well be a serious consideration for the OP. If your FLGS already has a couple of nid or a couple of guard players, perhaps you'll want to do the opposite of whatever is more common.

In my experience, the Imperial Guard is more forgiving than Tyranids based on the sheer amount of redundancy a Guard army has, so making a mistake doesn't essentially cost you a game.

Usually there are two avenues to field Guard; a heavily mechanized force with Veterans in Chimeras with either Vendettas or Russ Tanks or a Foot Army that fields blobbed infantry with Heavy Weapon Teams or Artillery in the back. The latter is a bit more complicated, but are more potent this 6th edition with Overwatch and Snap Shots and that grenades are offensive weapons.

Alot of people are overlooking Krak Grenades for regular Guard Squads.

No way, mech guard are now much better than foot guard, relatively. The addition of overwatch and new rapid fire rules are consolation prizes to an army that was destroyed by new wound allocation, the loss of by-unit cover, and the loss of hidden upgrades.

My foot guard have been getting tabled so often, that I'm now resorting to conscripts just to make sure I have SOMETHING on the board at the end of the game.

 Ailaros wrote:
No way, mech guard are now much better than foot guard, relatively. The addition of overwatch and new rapid fire rules are consolation prizes to an army that was destroyed by new wound allocation, the loss of by-unit cover, and the loss of hidden upgrades.

My foot guard have been getting tabled so often, that I'm now resorting to conscripts just to make sure I have SOMETHING on the board at the end of the game.

I don't know about that. Since AP 1/2weapons now confer +2/+1 on the vehicle damage charts, Las Cannons and Meltas are better against armor than in 5th and in concert with the Hull Points, vehicles cant benefit from getting stunned to death anymore.

And I like the new wound allocation. Takes away some of the shenanigans people used in their blobs. The only thing that seems to hinder a foot army is Focus Fire, which seems reasonable.

Yes, but once again, you're talking about a tiny boost. The way that foot guard used to operate is completely finished. There are a dozen huge, serious problems that a little icing of slightly killier lascannons and the addition of overwatch don't get anywhere near balancing out.

It's certainly still possible to do foot guard in 6th (at least, I think it is, it's what my battle reports over the last 2 months have been trying to prove). Back in 5th, foot and mech lists were about equal. Now mech takes it away hands down as far as the most powerful way to play guard nowadays.

Of course, how foot guard is relative to swarm nids, I can't really say.

Im really leaning towards Nids now. I play BT so you should automatically know I go against the norm. Nids seem just too cool to pass up at this point. I will definitely build a small IG ally force to hang with the Templars but Im sold on a Nid army. When I get a chance Ill link the decent sized army near me available on CL.

EDIT heres the link http://nh.craigslist.org/tag/3239512607.html

Welcome to the Hive, hope to see ya over at The Tyranid Hive forum

Good choice. Few pics to get you in the mood

http://www.flickr.com/photos/71627366@N04/6855800964/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/71627366@N04/7001913305/in/photostream/

http://www.dakkadakka.com/gallery/137621-Hive%20Tyrant%20slip.html

http://www.dakkadakka.com/gallery/302833-malanthrope.html

Wow those are SICK. I just browsed the codex last night; do most people just custom paint them or stick with the three Hives shown?

Lots of custom Hives out there, mine is. GW has a penchant for giving Tyranids mediocre paintjobs, sadly.

Yeah theyre fugly. Im thinking shiny black carapace, with teal interior. Or purple. Couple test coats first!

Do what I did, get a metal mini or two off ebay to test on. Keep a paint journal of the layers/mixes as you go. When you finish the first test model, look it over and see what could be better. Then strip it with acetone and improve on your recipe. Once happy you can easily paint all your models with consistency and youll quickly build speed once you get your recipe down, lookin forward to see your Tyranids. Consume all!!!

PS Don't add gloss until after you seal the model, sealer will dull it badly. Learned that one the hard way woth my first well painted carapace :-/

Yep if I only saw Tyranids painted by GW, I would never play them.

I agree with the above, try your scheme on a metal model first. I make my schemes in Dawn of War 2 then test them on metal prototype, still have three schemes and can't choose the main one . 1st world problems.

That craigslist ad gives you a lot of stuff you probably wont end up using IMO. I would pass.

I would check out bartertown.com the swapshop here and on other forums, and ebay. there are wayyyy better deals out there.

Okay guys, bit the bullet and picked up some Termagaunts and the Codex. Really enjoying it so far. So my next purchase will be a Hive Tyrant and a Tervigon. At least I think thats what he's called; the guy that poops out more Termagaunts. So questions......

Does the Hive Tyrant sprue come with wings? Whats a good build for him?

What are the little guys that come in the Termagaunt sprue? Rippers maybe? Do you stuff a bunch of them on the big base provided?

What is the best weapon the run on the Terms? The Devourer from what Ive read......

Tyrant comes with wings, but no Devourers . . . his best gun.

They are indeed Rippers and people generally put 3/4 on a 40mm base or use them for decoration on MC bases.

Devourer is the best weapon for firepower, but not the best for general Termagants as 10 points is a lot for T3 6+. Devgaunts are great in Pods and good when escorted by a Tervigon who can poop out vanilla Termagants to screen them. I buy the 12 man boxes for Devgaunts and the 5man boxes for vanillas, saves money.

Where do I get the Flyrant's Devourer? Forge World? And are you suggesting I equip him with that for now? I honestly have never invested in magnets and I just break arms off lol.

Either get the bits from a Carnifex kit (although its the Fexes best gun too) or convert them using Devourers from the Termagant kit. GW is really lazy with Tyranid stuff. When you get the Tervigon kit you'll notice it comes with no default front arms, only the 2 upgrade purchases haha!

IG have someway really scary tanks. The gaurd are jot what inwould go with. Tyranids are some overkill bugs. If you need a second army tyrenids is where you should go.

 60mm wrote:
Either get the bits from a Carnifex kit (although its the Fexes best gun too) or convert them using Devourers from the Termagant kit. GW is really lazy with Tyranid stuff. When you get the Tervigon kit you'll notice it comes with no default front arms, only the 2 upgrade purchases haha!

It also doesn't come with stinger salvo carapace, only a cluster spine carapace.