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im curious if with all the fluff anything has been hinted to as to what the Dark Angels response would be if knowledge of the Fallen's existence had become public. what effect would it have?
how they become public be it leaked and proven information or them finally forming a massive warband under the leadership of Cypher or some other Fallen with authority and sway beside the point (unless you think it effects the response to the fallen and the response from the other chapters)



if i didnt word this right by all means tell me and i will try to be more clear

I'm wasted right now ( It's my Birthday). But only the leaders of the Dark Angels know that there are Dark Angels that have fallen to chaos. Your average guys don't know. Most likely, Cpyhfer was a good guy, We;ll See in the new Dark Angels book., I'm sure. The big secret of 40,000 seems to be that lion El Johnston was a heritic..

How is it that the lion is a heretic? ive never heard anything about that

A book that Gav Thrope wrote about a book about a Fallen Angel and his interrogation on the rock and his perspective on the heresy.

Ah Astlan, something about the true reason why the Dark Angels were not at the seige of Terra, if you want to believe a fallen that is.

I haven't actually read Angel of Darkness, but I get the just of the book.

Does Astelan go into when the destruction if Caliban occurred?

There are quite a few sources that suggest that Caliban was destroyed after the Heresy the climax of the Heresy, being the death of Horus. As the Lion arrived with the Space Wolves and performed a mop up of the Traitors that were still on Terra.

He then returns home and that's when those loyal to Luthor attack the Lions fleet.

Astlan claimed that what with the Lion being a strategic mastermind there was no way that the ENTIRE Legion would have been unable to help during the Heresy and that, while not being a heretic per say, he was waiting to see who won the war before throwing in his support. Luther and the Lion are both confirmed to be still alive, although ones nuts and the others comatose, on the Rock.

Ge goes further to state that Luther knew and the Lion ordered Caliban wiped out so no evidence of his potential disloyalty remained.

danp164 wrote:
Astlan claimed that what with the Lion being a strategic mastermind there was no way that the ENTIRE Legion would have been unable to help during the Heresy and that, while not being a heretic per say, he was waiting to see who won the war before throwing in his support. Luther and the Lion are both confirmed to be still alive, although ones nuts and the others comatose, on the Rock.

Ge goes further to state that Luther knew and the Lion ordered Caliban wiped out so no evidence of his potential disloyalty remained.

Ah yes, that's it. The Lion being a fence sitter theory.

I forgot about this notion as it doesn't look that way in the Heresy series at the moment.

The Lion knew Caliban was tainted by the warp at the very least by the time he destroyed the Knights of Lupus's fortress.

After discovering Luthers nearly traitorous act he banished him from the crusade with 500 warriors, mostly from Caliban, under the pretence of being a training cadre to speed up recruitment.

The Lion knew that Caliban at some point would be purged when the taint was finally discovered and so had sent his closest brother to die.

When The Lion attacked that forge world under the pretence of saving it what he really was doing was securing a bargaining chip for Horus chip and setting up his alibi for the loyalists - I would have got there sooner but I was doing this and was delayed.

 Pilau Rice wrote:


There are quite a few sources that suggest that Caliban was destroyed after the Heresy the climax of the Heresy, being the death of Horus. As the Lion arrived with the Space Wolves and performed a mop up of the Traitors that were still on Terra.

He then returns home and that's when those loyal to Luthor attack the Lions fleet.

AFAIK that's largely correct., although Horus' death was triggered by the imminent arrival of the Wolves and Dark Angels together. So in a way, no matter how quickly the two made their way there, they would always be too late to stop the events on Horus' barge.
Interesting twist - if Astelan is correct about the Lion being a fence-sitter, then so is Russ; the two were making their way to lift the siege on Terra together...
Given how loyal Russ apparently was (afterwards, he bared his chest to a stab through the heart from the Lion in his grief), that seems unlikely, though some of his other points concerning the Great Crusade and other events of that time (and how the Imperium has drifted away from the Emp's vision) were definitely intriguing.

 beezley1981 wrote:
The big secret of 40,000 seems to be that lion El Johnston was a heritic..

And also..

hmm that whole if the Lion is in doubt and wolf boy (yes I am a DA fan) was with him then he's looking dodgey to is definatily food for thought. that bit were wolf boy bares his chest to and tells Johnson, the same he might be in league with, to kill him is sounding suspect, looks more like a well rehearsed act now but that just my opinion.

I always love how all the people that for years have said the DA where secretly heretics can now go "Yep,told ya".As a huge DA fan i never understood why people always wanted to assume the DA was secretly chaos.

I mean look at some of the other legions.Some of the guys from the BA's death company are one bad day away from being Khorne beserkers.

And lets not forget the SW,You have to think that when the chaos god's found out about them Khorne had to look at Tzeentch and be like"Really,puppies?"

brokenpigboy wrote:
I always love how all the people that for years have said the DA where secretly heretics can now go "Yep,told ya".As a huge DA fan i never understood why people always wanted to assume the DA was secretly chaos.

I mean look at some of the other legions.Some of the guys from the BA's death company are one bad day away from being Khorne beserkers.

And lets not forget the SW,You have to think that when the chaos god's found out about them Khorne had to look at Tzeentch and be like"Really,puppies?"

But they didn't actively turn against their fellow legions but are caused by a flaw in the gene-seed, unlike the alleged incidents against the dark angels

As Pilau mentioned, the Horus Heresy series so far appears to put to bed the idea of the Lion being a traitor. Indeed, in one of the novels (The Primarchs) he actively proclaims his loyalty to the Emperor.


Also, Hlaine Larkin, I see your signature and raise you: