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 xcasex wrote:


@Sining, first of all, i'm really sorry that people lost money in this. but there's a big but in there, its unsubstantiated rumourmongering unless people individually filed their receipts. other than that, read what i wrote to plastictrees.

a forumthread is insubstantial, its a forum on the internet anyone can post whatever. And by your answer re: insolvency, I guess Sweden has it better whereas you can still sue for fraud if you can prove intent.

and .. baked goods? do I look like marie antoinette? pffft.

I just had to comment on this. Dozens of people have reported lack of communication. I myself tried emailing the company after they started showing obvious signs of financial trouble. I never got a reply, just like the rest of us. A forumthread of 50 pages is not insubstantial, it goes to show that there is/was something wrong with the company. You cannot honestly believe that 50+ pages were created by a couple people with too much time on their hands. Oh, and the same topic has been discussed on other boards, like BoLS or bolterandchainsword.

Just google Maelstromgames.

And that baked goods comment is just a reference to the thread on Dakka and a peculiar way of the Britons to express incompetence.

xcasex- It would seem to make sense to familiarize yourself with the specifics of this case before continuing to comment generally. There is indeed mountains of evidence to the contrary if what you are posting rather at length about, without bothering to glance at the facts. There is indeed hard evidence available- just because you haven't looked doesn't mean it isn't there!

As for Mierce Minoatures fulfilling BaneBeast orders from Maelstrom Games- that was not done out of kindness, if they hadn't, no one (hardly) would risk buying from them now.

We have an expression "Call a spade a spade", you seem to be desperately trying to convince yourself that it is something else, and I can't figure out why. To drill down to the main point- this owner ripped people off and misled them. This leads those, and others who know them or have heard their story to not want to do business with the owner's "new" company. It's simply business reputation, a Major part of business. And right now the facts about this owner are absolutely killing Mierce Miniatures reputation. It happens all the time in business, and execs step down / are fired because of it.

If he were to divorce himself from the operations of Mierce Miniatures, I might support them. But when they say he is extremely involved and his vision is what drives them, as they posted here- that's not a vision I trust nor want to be a part of. That's just being a smart consumer, and it's going to hurt their business till addressed.

To at least partially attempt to remain on topic, if not 100%

Some feedback on Krull, who I'm currently putting together.

Instructions as to where all the various small components attach wouldn't go amiss, while mostly logical I'm having to think way too hard for some of them.

Secondly the knee armour is horrible, the upper and lower trims are so delicate that they all split, no matter how carefully I tried to remove them from the enormous tabs they were attached to, and they were also difficult to locate onto the model. It is probably too late, but casting the knee piece seperately to the legs in one component would be much easier if it were possible.

Love the model though, one of the few good things to emerge from Maelstrom's demise is I could afford one!

I bought the shaggoth type monster from MG some time ago. I did like it, although it was Huge, and even the severed heads on it were a bit out of scale with WH.

Also, comments about a company's business practices are most definitely on topic

 RiTides wrote:
I bought the shaggoth type monster from MG some time ago. I did like it, although it was Huge, and even the severed heads on it were a bit out of scale with WH.

Also, comments about a company's business practices are most definitely on topic

Not actually this company.

Sorry, company owner's business practices

Sorry I disagree.

It is absolutely right that it's mentioned so anyone casually reading this thread is aware of the company's heritage, but there's already 50 plus pages in Discussions debating the legality and morality of Robs actions.

I'm not after the last word here- I'll just agree to disagree. To me, it's certainly news-worthy.

Hey, you're the mod!

 azreal13 wrote:
Sorry I disagree.

It is absolutely right that it's mentioned so anyone casually reading this thread is aware of the company's heritage, but there's already 50 plus pages in Discussions debating the legality and morality of Robs actions.

So the next time Daniel Middlebaum pops up, we shouldn't bring up his previous activities as RedStarOne or any of his other scam routines because it was discussed before? Ok. No significant difference between him and Lane. Both have organizations taking orders with no intent on filling them.

RiTides, the thing is that most of the people arguing over this, yourself included, are showing some very heavy emotional investment in the discussion, you wouldn't if this was a local business going insolvent with outstanding orders, people going out of work, etc.
The company went insolvent, unless you have evidence, its just hearsay and that's very insubstantial, if there is evidence, sue for fraud, I mean what's the hindering factor there? that it's easier to spew vitriol on a forum? the former is constructive the latter is objectionable.

I frankly couldn't really give a feth, but the explanation by the OP was good, it was stellar as far as explanations from corporations go.

desperate? i'm not the one posting in a 50+ page thread.

I wouldnt be interested in buying from them, if it weren't for that explanation.

and as far as facts, i've reiterated that i've read the forumthread in question, the fact that you try to paint it as if i haven't is unflattering, i.e don't preclude to knowing what I have or have Not done, simply because you dont and can't know

12thRonin wrote:

 azreal13 wrote:
Sorry I disagree.

It is absolutely right that it's mentioned so anyone casually reading this thread is aware of the company's heritage, but there's already 50 plus pages in Discussions debating the legality and morality of Robs actions.

So the next time Daniel Middlebaum pops up, we shouldn't bring up his previous activities as RedStarOne or any of his other scam routines because it was discussed before? Ok. No significant difference between him and Lane. Both have organizations taking orders with no intent on filling them.

Huh?

You quote me saying its right that it's mentioned, then proceed to try and argue with a point I didn't make! MY point was that discussion was going on elsewhere and didn't need to be repeated here at length.

So what part didn't you understand? If someone hasn't read the Maelstrom thread or know about the connection of Rob Lane, how would they know otherwise if it's not discussed at length? Scammers are scammers and deserve to be discussed at length.

 xcasex wrote:
RiTides, the thing is that most of the people arguing over this, yourself included, are showing some very heavy emotional investment in the discussion, you wouldn't if this was a local business going insolvent with outstanding orders, people going out of work, etc.

If this was a local business who had stiffed a lot of local people and had set up another business owned by the same person, I'm pretty sure people would STILL avoid the other business. I'm not really sure what's your point here. Do you know the people involved in mierce miniatures? Are they a local business for you? I mean, local or not, I'm not going to shop with a business if I'm not sure I'm going to get the stuff I paid for. If their employees go out of work, that's really sad but again, why should I be the one to take a risk to feed them?

The company went insolvent, unless you have evidence, its just hearsay and that's very insubstantial, if there is evidence, sue for fraud, I mean what's the hindering factor there? that it's easier to spew vitriol on a forum? the former is constructive the latter is objectionable.

Hearsay of what? That they went insolvent? That people did not get their orders? That they knew that their time was coming but they kept taking orders in the meanwhile without letting customers know about their situation? I mean, you keep saying it's hearsay but you don't specifically say what. I'm not saying Rob Lane specifically or intentionally committed fraud but what I said are the facts, and not hearsay. It's really up to other people how they want to interpret it. Most people just call a duck a duck. Some other people prefer to call a duck a chicken -_-

12thRonin wrote:
So what part didn't you understand? If someone hasn't read the Maelstrom thread or know about the connection of Rob Lane, how would they know otherwise if it's not discussed at length? Scammers are scammers and deserve to be discussed at length.

You quote me saying its right that it's mentioned, then proceed to try and argue with a point I didn't make! MY point was that discussion was going on elsewhere and didn't need to be repeated here at length.

Is that clearer?

Its been mentioned, move on

If you feel a burning need for an in depth discussion then there is a thread in Discussions!

yeah see this is why i wrote i'd rather discuss this in private, instead of fouling this thread into full on OT.

I am not affiliated with MM, I live in Sweden so it's not a local bussiness either, and I just don't believe Lane is the moustache twirling evil mastermind that he's made out to be. why? he'd be rich by this point if he were.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 azreal13 wrote:

12thRonin wrote:
So what part didn't you understand? If someone hasn't read the Maelstrom thread or know about the connection of Rob Lane, how would they know otherwise if it's not discussed at length? Scammers are scammers and deserve to be discussed at length.

You quote me saying its right that it's mentioned, then proceed to try and argue with a point I didn't make! MY point was that discussion was going on elsewhere and didn't need to be repeated here at length.

Is that clearer?

Its been mentioned, move on

If you feel a burning need for an in depth discussion then there is a thread in Discussions!

Can I just say Amen to this.

 xcasex wrote:
yeah see this is why i wrote i'd rather discuss this in private, instead of fouling this thread into full on OT.

I am not affiliated with MM, I live in Sweden so it's not a local bussiness either, and I just don't believe Lane is the moustache twirling evil mastermind that he's made out to be. why? he'd be rich by this point if he were.

Most rotten businessmen I know aren't very rich. They're usually just inept and immoral. The evil genius mastermind businessmen are usually in politics ;p

And this thread was actually doing fine until someone stepped in and said all this hearsay about Rob Lane and MG and Mierce was unsubstantiated, which I think earned the ire of quite a few people -_-

 azreal13 wrote:

You quote me saying its right that it's mentioned, then proceed to try and argue with a point I didn't make! MY point was that discussion was going on elsewhere and didn't need to be repeated here at length.

Is that clearer?

Its been mentioned, move on

If you feel a burning need for an in depth discussion then there is a thread in Discussions!

That's the point though. You're saying that since it's been discussed before it shouldn't be now. I disagree. Apparently the mods do not either. Your logic says that the next time RSO pops back up, we've talked about him before so lets not bring it back up again because it's been discussed before. (I can play with the size tag too)

Take your own advice about moving on.

@Sining: You're wasting your time with xcasex. You can't argue with a duck. He's quacked enough to show he's got some dog in this fight.

12thRonin wrote:

 azreal13 wrote:

You quote me saying its right that it's mentioned, then proceed to try and argue with a point I didn't make! MY point was that discussion was going on elsewhere and didn't need to be repeated here at length.

Is that clearer?

Its been mentioned, move on

If you feel a burning need for an in depth discussion then there is a thread in Discussions!

That's the point though. You're saying that since it's been discussed before it shouldn't be now. I disagree. Apparently the mods do not either. Your logic says that the next time RSO pops back up, we've talked about him before so lets not bring it back up again because it's been discussed before. (I can play with the size tag too)

Take your own advice about moving on.

Ok. You've still misunderstood my point, but you're a much better person with bigger man parts than me and I'm moving on.

 xcasex wrote:
Okay I never intended to get into this discussion wrg to Rob Lane, but it bothers me.
Has any of you that have been wronged actually tried emailing, otherwise contacting him personally or for that matter filed some form of lawsuit against the man?
I get the "hurr durr rob lane herp derp" but are there any solid facts?

with the internet its quite easy to get the hatetrain rolling and being someone who was accused by the other side in a similar situation, I actually sued and was cleared of wrongdoing (I was the buyer, not the seller, i was however accused of not paying for the product, which I did, and it was broken)

Furthermore, mobbing up on someone due to what to me is more or less unsubstantiated is bothersome.
I like the sculpt, From what i've read up on it seems the company that did the right thing wrg to the outstanding orders were mierce minis.

You can't really transfer blame left, right and then ruin their rep.
do something about it if they are proven to be up to the same shenanigans again, not before.

I personally lost money on product ordered, paid for, and not supplied. I don't have Rob Lane's personal contact information (do you really think he'd give it out, Mister Straw Man poster?) - but Maelstrom games stopped replying to emails, and then later, stopped answering the telephone (which is how I got most of my money back). There's a thread on Maelstrom in Dakka Discussions. Go find it and read (all of) it before you spout off such rubbish. "are there any solid facts?" indeed.

Rob Lane ruined his own rep. he didn't need the internet to do it for him.

 scipio.au wrote:

 xcasex wrote:
Okay I never intended to get into this discussion wrg to Rob Lane, but it bothers me.
Has any of you that have been wronged actually tried emailing, otherwise contacting him personally or for that matter filed some form of lawsuit against the man?
I get the "hurr durr rob lane herp derp" but are there any solid facts?

with the internet its quite easy to get the hatetrain rolling and being someone who was accused by the other side in a similar situation, I actually sued and was cleared of wrongdoing (I was the buyer, not the seller, i was however accused of not paying for the product, which I did, and it was broken)

Furthermore, mobbing up on someone due to what to me is more or less unsubstantiated is bothersome.
I like the sculpt, From what i've read up on it seems the company that did the right thing wrg to the outstanding orders were mierce minis.

You can't really transfer blame left, right and then ruin their rep.
do something about it if they are proven to be up to the same shenanigans again, not before.

I personally lost money on product ordered, paid for, and not supplied. I don't have Rob Lane's personal contact information (do you really think he'd give it out, Mister Straw Man poster?) - but Maelstrom games stopped replying to emails, and then later, stopped answering the telephone (which is how I got most of my money back). There's a thread on Maelstrom in Dakka Discussions. Go find it and read (all of) it before you spout off such rubbish. "are there any solid facts?" indeed.

Rob Lane ruined his own rep. he didn't need the internet to do it for him.

Regardless of how many people point it out to him, xcasex just doesn't seem to be able to get a hold on reality.

We've provided him with facts - Mierce is a spinoff company of Maelstrom. Maelstrom did not fulfil orders and stopped communicating and many people were left in the cold. I think at this point it's best to just give up on that guy.

 xcasex wrote:
if there is evidence, sue for fraud

You can't sue for fraud.

I really like the kraken and the not-Chaos-Lord is ok, but I'd only buy these models from somewhere else that had them in stock (which annoyingly they don't list stockists on the Mierce website, or they don't have any) - I don't intend to spend time filling out forms to get my money bank through my bank again.

I today got my entire order I placed with Maelstrom Games during their closing sales from Mierce Miniatures. So they (MM) are honouring their statement that they are taking care of the Darklands items ordered from MG.

Well, to wade into this debate...I have already ordered the Cthulhu (c'mon, we know that's what it is!) and the triple-headed snake.
I read all about the Maelstrom website fiasco, but personally, only benefited from it, securing many minis at 40% off, all delivered promptly without fuss. On three occasions I have requested replacement parts due to moulding concerns, all were diligently attended to.

So, yes SOME people out there were burnt...
But not sending your business to Mierce or Eye of the Storm is not the answer.
If anyone still holds out hope that their order might be fulfilled, robbing business and therefore revenue from Mierce is not going to help.

Can there be more awesome miniature pics and less panty-wadding in this thread?

 SlaveToDorkness wrote:
Can there be more awesome miniature pics and less panty-wadding in this thread?

I tried, but got outvoted.

Hope you have better luck.

 SlaveToDorkness wrote:
Can there be more awesome miniature pics and less panty-wadding in this thread?

nope, i apparently have something to gain by using reason.
best of luck though!

yxalitis wrote:
Well, to wade into this debate...I have already ordered the Cthulhu (c'mon, we know that's what it is!) and the triple-headed snake.
I read all about the Maelstrom website fiasco, but personally, only benefited from it, securing many minis at 40% off, all delivered promptly without fuss. On three occasions I have requested replacement parts due to moulding concerns, all were diligently attended to.

So, yes SOME people out there were burnt...
But not sending your business to Mierce or Eye of the Storm is not the answer.
If anyone still holds out hope that their order might be fulfilled, robbing business and therefore revenue from Mierce is not going to help.

Yeah, I don't think Mierce is going to send me the Warlord Games, SWW2 or Vallejo stuff I ordered from Lane's other business somehow. While it's lovely to know that you personally got a ton of stuff heavily discounted, it doesn't negate all the people that got ripped off. Perhaps they could offer to send people their ripped-off-by-Maelstrom-dollar-value in Mierce product if they want to calm the hating? Resin is cheap after all....


I'd also suggest that if people want the hating to end, they should stop replying to it instead of telling people who dislike Rob Lane to STFU, and this includes our friendly Mierce rep. Bringing up how great a bloke Rob Lane is in this thread is what got this otherwise-quiet thread going in the current manner.

Mierce minis is one site, Eye of the Storm is the "new Maelstrom"
Both are run by the same guy, who also ran Malestrom

yxalitis wrote:
Mierce minis is one site, Eye of the Storm is the "new Maelstrom"
Both are run by the same guy, who also ran Malestrom

Thanks for restating what's already been said in this thread about 8 times. Marvelous contribution.