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I do not fault Mierce for using Kickstarter at all. However I DO think they should at least have fulfilled all but the most recent of their efforts before coming back to fund more stuff yet again. That has become my rule for RBG anyway....maybe that is a bad idea considering the degree to which I restrict my success with that rule given the examples of CMoN and Mierce and Mantic.

You really cannot blame people for doing what works. And though I do not particularly take the same attitude per-se Rob is right if you don't like it then don't fund them.

That said..........It is not unreasonable for people to look askance when a company is back at the well with such a hefty debt of confidence and commitments yet to be fulfilled. I won't fault anyone for doign what works as often as they can BUT when a company is asking a lot and making a lot of money which in turn makes it more difficult for me to make money in the same business it pisses me off if that company also has a LOT of commitment yet to fulfill and runs purely on the confidence of their customers. That DOES make it harder for the rest of us who do deliver on what we promise promptly. When you make $10,000.00 on a Treant that is $10,000.00 I will not make on a treant, which is all fine and dandy as long as that Treant is delivered promptly and you don't come back asking for more money for now a set fo dragons which won't deliver for months yet again.

And the idea that fulfilling a few of the commitments mitigates the severity of risk of future commitments being fulfilled......there are PLENTY of examples where that is proven to be anything BUT true.



Kickstarter is where the rubber meets the road people. It is the forefront of the future of the industry.

Reward what you want to see more of.

Don't fall for the hype.

Believe the results even when people claim to have dug up a pod of magic beans ( I have been there ). Believe existing examples ONLY, if someone has discovered some revolutionary new process or product they will have EXAMPLES to show you. NOT prototype representatives in other materials or renders.

In many ways, smaller targeted KS from Mierce make it easier. Right now almost every KS has had something I've wanted. If that changes, then maybe I throw less money at them.

Id also like to echo the sentiment that closing out KS need to happen faster if they are going to up the frequency of KS campaigns. Then again I'm part of the problem as I tossed in for another Sweet Spot Reward level, prolonging the fulfillment of that whole campaign.

Another thought to ponder is the rule book promised back in KS2. If every 3 months a new batch of things will be added to Darklands, the rule book becomes obsolete every 3-6 months depending on how many new special rules will be introduced. My biggest gripe with GWs sudden frantic pace, and my final exit from 40k, is that its impossible to keep up with all the new rules/formations/dataslates. I don't have unlimited funds and I don't like spending all of them on trying to keep abreast of the most recent rules additions.

Will faction Musters remain free downloads? Could they be made prominent on the Mierce website? Currently I have to dig through all the emails to find the most current update links and there was talk about no longer doing the weekly KS updates. If the Friday emails go away, and the core rule book goes out of date 3 months after it goes to print, where will the most recent rules be published?

Is there an end state for each faction? It seems Rob and crew always have more sketches and more options for each faction but will there be a point that say, the Byzantii are complete? I know asking for a complete faction is silly when others like the Vras have hardly nothing but it would be nice to see a core group of 4-6 (based on current sales/number of units already produced?) factions be completed before all sorts of other units get added.

 Alpharius wrote:
All this talk...

Mierce is, as they say, a "Kickstarter Company".

But I wonder, does this mean that they'll always be a "Kickstarter Company", unable to really effectively get into retail channels in a meaningful way?

If Kickstarter is where all the new releases go first, where customers can get the best pricing, and also get deep discounts on existing stock, will distributors and retailers ever really get into Darklands?

I hope so - I want the game to grow and thrive, and I want to be able to find games somewhat easily and somewhat locally!

I think the big thing is they want to get a fairly extensive range of models released as quickly as possible. If they were to try and release models as a "We have the funds from retail to produce 1-2 models a month, we would see a much slower growth. I feel that once all of the factions are really fleshed out, things will slow a bit and move to the more established distribution lanes.

 tre manor wrote:


I do not fault Mierce for using Kickstarter at all. However I DO think they should at least have fulfilled all but the most recent of their efforts before coming back to fund more stuff yet again. That has become my rule for RBG anyway....maybe that is a bad idea considering the degree to which I restrict my success with that rule given the examples of CMoN and Mierce and Mantic.

Their operation is slightly different than yours however. You do all your own sculpting (correct me if I'm wrong), so you're more limited in what you can add to your queue. Plus you work for yourself. If you want to get some sculpts in, you do them. With Mierce, they run with freelancers, the best in the biz... including yourself! I just painted up Erebius and I'd love to see some more of your work turn up. They have a wide group of a dozen or so regulars, but those guys will take on other commissions, leaving them unavailable. In order to have money in the pipe lined up to effectively keep them on staff, they need to bring it in early. Otherwise they may get snapped up, leaving Mierce with a 6 month stretch of not having access to them while the line stays stagnant.

What I would like to see is them expanding their casting capabilities at some point to get into retail, as that will help the game grow. I know The Warstore and FRP Games carry Darklands, but restocks are limtied.
abilities at some point to get into retail, as that will help the game grow. I know The Warstore and FRP Games carry Darklands, but restocks are limtied.

Well Element Games in the UK are now carrying what looks to be the entire line so that's another distribution channel open

and if you could ever (reliably) get everything cheaper than their KS prices would any of us really spend what we do on the KS so far ahead?

(it's not like I don't have a lifetimes worth of options to paint already)

those of us who are interested enough in the line get the best discounts via KS and enable those who don't want to take a risk to get a regular stream of new stuff

(I'd be interested to know if the irregular restocks at The Warstore/FRP are down to a capacity issue or perhaps to minimum orders or just those stores not wanting to have a big inventory of what's still a small niche line sitting on their shelves so only ordering 1-2 of something at a time)

Mierce, Please consider adding Merfolk to the Atlantians! No one has done good Merfolk and I honestly believe you guys are the only company that can do them justice.

Mierce Miniatures wrote:
It's certainly how we work - we've said it before, and we'll say it again, we're a Kickstarter company. Expect one every three months from here on in regardless of previous fulfilment - small ones mind; new kindreds is the last big one for a while.

Small and focused does sound good, but I really hope you manage to keep them that way. Monstrous Mounts was supposed to be small and short, but it grew fairly large and now, five months out, only two out of the five new big beasts have been sculpted. To be clear, I absolutely have no problem with you guys using Kickstarter, it's just the overlap with previous projects that makes me slightly worried. In January we'll have three projects with substantial portions yet to be fulfilled (First Edition II, Monstrous Mounts, New Kindred); I just think it's a bit much.

Another thing I've thought about in connection to the long string of Kickstarters is the availability of the back catalogue. It's just something I've noticed in myself, a year ago if a sexy new unit (like the Shadow Drunes or whatever) would show up in a KS, I'd rabidly pledge to be able to get them. But today I'm feeling a lot more hard to seduce, because I'm thinking if I don't buy them now there's probably a good chance they'll show up in a later project as part of some host package or whatever (perhaps as a better deal). And in a like manner, if you are a 'Kickstarter company' and repeatedly include the '20% on existing stuff'-deal in your projects, then this is really the benchmark against which all other deals should be compared, instead of the RRP. What I mean is that snagging a monstrous mount for £50 (RRP £60) is suddenly not looking so juicy if I know I could also just wait and buy it at 20% off through a KS a year from now when it's directly available.

I really hate to sound this negative; I love the miniatures and honestly just want Mierce to do well, so I hope my words are taken as constructive criticism rather than an annoying rant.

I just think that Mierce needs to make sure that 'full rulebook' hits in February!

I'd like to thank Mierce for being the one project creator that doesn't make me feel like I paid to have some dude give me bad news once a week for the next two years, if they can be bothered updating at all.
I know every Friday I get an update on each Mierce Project showing progress what's up to where. I consider Mierce the only company I still use kickstarter for, everyone else can go jump in gak!
Oh, except Secret Weapon, I love mister justin.

 Trodax wrote:

Mierce Miniatures wrote:
It's certainly how we work - we've said it before, and we'll say it again, we're a Kickstarter company. Expect one every three months from here on in regardless of previous fulfilment - small ones mind; new kindreds is the last big one for a while.

Small and focused does sound good, but I really hope you manage to keep them that way. Monstrous Mounts was supposed to be small and short, but it grew fairly large and now, five months out, only two out of the five new big beasts have been sculpted. To be clear, I absolutely have no problem with you guys using Kickstarter, it's just the overlap with previous projects that makes me slightly worried. In January we'll have three projects with substantial portions yet to be fulfilled (First Edition II, Monstrous Mounts, New Kindred); I just think it's a bit much.

Another thing I've thought about in connection to the long string of Kickstarters is the availability of the back catalogue. It's just something I've noticed in myself, a year ago if a sexy new unit (like the Shadow Drunes or whatever) would show up in a KS, I'd rabidly pledge to be able to get them. But today I'm feeling a lot more hard to seduce, because I'm thinking if I don't buy them now there's probably a good chance they'll show up in a later project as part of some host package or whatever (perhaps as a better deal). And in a like manner, if you are a 'Kickstarter company' and repeatedly include the '20% on existing stuff'-deal in your projects, then this is really the benchmark against which all other deals should be compared, instead of the RRP. What I mean is that snagging a monstrous mount for £50 (RRP £60) is suddenly not looking so juicy if I know I could also just wait and buy it at 20% off through a KS a year from now when it's directly available.

I really hate to sound this negative; I love the miniatures and honestly just want Mierce to do well, so I hope my words are taken as constructive criticism rather than an annoying rant.

No you don't sound negative, You sound honest and realistic. I too want Mierce to achieve their vision. But fair criticism is always the way to help.

I know every Friday I get an update on each Mierce Project showing progress what's up to where. I consider Mierce the only company I still use kickstarter for, everyone else can go jump in gak!

There are a few of us who deliver everything as promised within the span of 3 months you know.

Their operation is slightly different than yours however. You do all your own sculpting (correct me if I'm wrong), so you're more limited in what you can add to your queue. Plus you work for yourself. If you want to get some sculpts in, you do them. With Mierce, they run with freelancers, the best in the biz... including yourself! I just painted up Erebius and I'd love to see some more of your work turn up. They have a wide group of a dozen or so regulars, but those guys will take on other commissions, leaving them unavailable. In order to have money in the pipe lined up to effectively keep them on staff, they need to bring it in early. Otherwise they may get snapped up, leaving Mierce with a 6 month stretch of not having access to them while the line stays stagnant.

Since the Launch of their second KS Mierce have funded the production of THREE HUNDRED SEVENTEEN figures.

THREE. HUNDRED. SEVENTEEN.

That si abotu as far from stagnating as is possible to go. I am not saying that they cannot do it or that they won't deliver it. I am just pointing out that that is a HUGE load fo stuff to be done. And even if they have delivered half of it ( which i am really not sure of what they delivered as I don't really follow the fulfillment. ) they still have a LOT of stuff yet to do.

I still have to make a living. So I DO have to pay myself for the effort of sculpting. Otherwise I might as well work for other people ( Mierce included who, commendably, pay their artists VERY well. NO complaint there. ). The problem with that is that I do not want to work for anyone else AND I make only a fraction of the money working for anyone else as I would working for myself. So I suppose it is an option to allow someone else to interpose themselves between me and the people who like my work taking the lion's share of the profits in the offing, OR I can continue on with my own endeavors following my muses and creating some awesome art and reaping the rewards there of.

Tim and Rob are great to work with and not every artist wants to undertake the huge burden that I do. And those artists are glad to have companies liek Mierce there to provide work for them to do. Mierce DESERVES it's success and respect there of. I just think they should reel it in a little bit and get more of what they have on their plate cleared off before coming back for more.

Yes, my operation is a little different than theirs. The primary difference being that I am a one man show. And while that eliminates* the cost of getting the sculptures made I still need to be able to pay a contractor to make the molds and produce the castings. Which is where Mierce has an advantage being that they eliminate* those costs by producing their product in house.

Do NOT misunderstand me here. I like the Mierce guys a lot. I like what they are producing and I think they have set the bar for communication. I am just pointing out that they have PLENTY to do. I honestly do not think they could put more work on their sculptors for the next 12 months. What happens in that intervening time? They just come back and get more stuff to do and the deliver stretches ever further into the future? At what point do they have enough stuff to do?

And do the rest of us ever get the chance to do anything or do we all have to sit and wait for Mierce or CMoN ( or any other company that runs on concept art ) to come and hire us to make something that we otherwise would have done on our own if the demand had not already been consumed? Not mention hope like hell our audacity has not pissed them off to the point of hating in the interim.

The miniatures business has always been a race, but KS and the ability to fund based on concept art and confidence alone has turned the miniatures business into Fury Road. We are all howling lunatics strung from flexi-poles on racing death machines trying to steal each other's virgins and blow each other up.

It really sucks.




* the costs are never eliminated. I charge money to sculpt because I need to eat and feed my family just like anyone else. I can only defer the cost of the time to the end of a project for a greater pay off. I very often go without getting " paid " for a sculpture just sop I can afford to get it made and hope to recoup the investment in time an dlabor over time once the figure is in the store. Same goes for Mierce. The lion's share of the cost is in the production costs....ESPECIALLY resin production.

I think one thing that is evident from the responses here, is that people don't necessarily want to fund "churn". When the next campaign launches, there will be 4 ongoing unfulfilled projects, and by saying there will be a campaign every 3 months, you can easily see that number rising.

I think part of the question here, as someone else noted, is what is the purpose? Is there a point where each of the core factions will be "complete" (with the possibility of an expansion book later or the like, of course). Most successful games hit points like this - Dropzone Commander, another small UK company making fine resin models for their own game, is a good example. They put out their rulebook with complete entries for each faction, then annually add some expansion units which they flesh out over the course of the year, which have now been compiled into an expansion book (with a new race, even!).

But they have also successfully pushed into retail outlets (not saying Mierce must do this, just noting that) and done things like converted their starter sets to plastic, made a terrain set for people to get playing their game quickly, and gotten wider adoption of the game as a result.

I think this would be something that could really add value to Mierce's customers - you can see how re-offering existing sculpts (whether the package deals in the Monstrous Mounts campaign, or the Sweet Spot being re-offered, etc) could still bring in a lot of funds. Then the casting efforts, instead of continually making new molds (I had no idea it was over 300!) could focus on producing enough stock of current sculpts to get into wider circulation.

Personally, there are some sculpts I'm extremely interested in from the existing line. Seeing more "starter sets" offered and made widely available would be something that would definitely tempt me.

I guess what I'm trying to say is, a business doesn't have to be continually making TONS of new sculpts to be continually doing TONS of business. There are a lot of ways to push forward with Darklands that don't involve having people pay for sculpts that won't deliver until Wave 8 (or whatever wave it's on now) a year or more hence. The casting department at Mierce obviously has tons to do with all the new sculpts that will be coming in, but there is a lot of opportunity to push the line once the rulebook is out, without making a single new sculpt.

Note that I'm not saying I don't want new sculpts - I'm just saying, that "churn" of new sculpt / unit after new sculpt / unit doesn't have to be perpetual for the company to make money, and indeed it likely cannot be. There is a point where people want to have a "complete" faction (or at least, complete for the starter rulebook, pending expansion, etc) and want to see the game itself be pushed for wider adoption, so that they have a use for all those models. Many of us are snowed under with fine Mierce resin as it is, and are committed to sculpts that are months away. So, that cycle can't always get pushed further and further out, and meet the same degree of success.

I am very interested to see what Mierce does going forward, and like Trodax said I hope this is taken as constructive criticism. Everyone here is likely heavily invested and wants the company to succeed - I just think there are a lot of ways to move the product line forward that don't involve getting stretched further and further out / thinner and thinner as a company, but working with what they've already accomplished and pushing that forward. Physical rulebook release and promotion being the chief example of that!

I really don't have any issue with a campaign schedule of every three months if it helps fill out all of the factions faster. I think a lot of people forget that Darkland campaigns are small and there's almost always quite a bit left on the table that didn't get funded at the end of their campaigns. Which ultimately delays the overall completeness of the game. Before the new kindreds KS the Atlantes faction has one mini... Once the game is more fleshed out and the factions have balanced line ups then I'd expect the KS's to wind down and retail becoming a bigger possibility.

Tre, I'm sure you have, unfortunately thanks to all the KS campaigns who treat their backers like garbage, I'll never find out. Perhaps you could comment in all those threads about how they cost the good guys in funding by burning backers?
Palladium Books, Prodos, Imbrian Arts, titan forge, Sandy Peterson... The list goes on.

I do nto keep up with all of them to be honest. I know they are out there and yes any KSer that does not deliver makes me angry. I am nto selective about my outrages.

I am new to miniature painting, and got into it because of the value of the Reaper Bones Kickstarter. I also have backed a few of Tre's campaigns, he's great. And I have since fallen in love with the Mierce look and quality, so have backed their Kickstarters beginning with New Edition II.

I have monitoring this forum on and off for a while, and I wanted to chime in with this current discussion since I know the Mierce guys read this. My first foray into miniatures Kickstarters was Reaper Bones. In the spring of 2013 I backed Dwarven Forge (also an established company), and that campaign got me excited enough to back a bunch of projects in a row, mostly from less established or much smaller companies. One of those was CSM Miniature's Tome of Horrors. They had run their first Kickstarter right after Reaper Bones, but I wasn't interested at the time. Their Tome of Horrors project in Spring 2013 looked very cool, so I went into it fairly heavily. Then in February of 2014 they did another Kickstarter that I backed since there had been steady communication and progress shown for the outstanding Kickstarters (though there were warning signs of lack of fulfillment for their very first Kickstarter). Now the guy running CSM is filing for bankruptcy and us backers will get nothing. He very clearly was using the money from each subsequent Kickstarter to fund previous campaigns (he also underpriced things I think, and made other poor business decisions). This is the definition of a Ponzi Scheme, even if it wasn't intentional from the start. The point is that this is an UNSUSTAINABLE long term business model. Because once confidence in future projects or fulfillment falters, it can all come crashing down like a house of cards.

In light of my experience and lost money, I am starting to be concerned about Mierce (especially when factoring in my limited understanding about what happened with Maelstrom). Rob is very communicative and friendly, unlike the silence from CSM Miniatures. However, everything is rosy right now. I even like the basic principle of using Kickstarter to expand a business (ie miniatures line/game) as quickly as possible while there is excitement and demand. But they are a premium product, which means their customer base will always be smaller than cheaper alternatives. At what point does the demand slow down (or even stop) because the hardcore fans have enough Mierce to last a lifetime. When will they have saturated the market for this kind of thing? What happens if the next Darklands Kickstarter doesn't fund? It doesn't take much to shatter confidence. The only reason that Kickstarter works as a long term business model for Tre Manor is because he is now completely fulfilling before starting another one.

I have no idea what percentage of total sales that Mierce sells from their website or to retailers (to provide cash flow outside of Kickstarter). I have no idea if they are setting aside enough money from each Kickstarter to cover the production costs for all of its rewards. I have no idea if there is a plan to transition from a Kickstarter (ie preorder) business model to a more traditional retail model of selling inventory.

If Kickstarter if about "investing" then I think more details of the business plan need to be shared with backers. No bank or private investor would hand over money without know what exactly will be done with those funds. Confidence in a company is the only "protection" we have as a Kickstarter backer, especially since these projects take so long to fulfill that we can't even do a credit card charge-back.

I really want to see Mierce succeed long term. So I'm hoping you guys will share more of the specifics of your business plan with us backers. Exact numbers are not important, but some reassurances that you have a realistic and viable plan for the future will help keep confidence up. Blind faith in Kickstarters is almost over. Backers are becoming wiser and will require more information going forward.

coolguitar7 wrote:
I
I really want to see Mierce succeed long term. So I'm hoping you guys will share more of the specifics of your business plan with us backers. Exact numbers are not important, but some reassurances that you have a realistic and viable plan for the future will help keep confidence up. Blind faith in Kickstarters is almost over. Backers are becoming wiser and will require more information going forward.

I hope you don't, Rob. And hopefully you don't feel like you have to. That, quite frankly, isn't our business as customers.

Getting our product to us is, as is the open communication of production of said product. Both of which Mierce have been top of the line in.

Everything is rosy because Mierce fulfills their KS'ers and updates everyone weekly with a status of the outstanding ones. I really don't need a 5 year business plan from them in order for me to have confidence in them. There track record speaks for itself. If you don't feel that way that's OK just hold off until your pledge is fulfilled and then jump on the next KS if you so choose.
I understand being a bit gun shy since I've been bit on a few KS's as well. I jumped on Darklands during the first edition ii campaign too and Mierce has set the standard for me when I look at backing other KS'ers. No one really comes close so I typically pass and horde for Mierce's next KS.

Just keep on keeping on Mierce!

 Malkaven wrote:
Everything is rosy because Mierce fulfills their KS'ers and updates everyone weekly with a status of the outstanding ones. I really don't need a 5 year business plan from them in order for me to have confidence in them. There track record speaks for itself. If you don't feel that way that's OK just hold off until your pledge is fulfilled and then jump on the next KS if you so choose.

My concern is not their current track record with Kickstarters. I agree that they have been run very well and they have fulfilled everything as each wave has happened (with a few delays, including some items pushed back into later waves - all understandable enough).

I am concerned about what happens if something drastically changes with Kickstarter or the campaigns. What if Kickstarter suddenly changes their rules drastically that somehow precludes the Mierce model? What if a project doesn't fund? The fact that Mierce says that they are a Kickstarter company worries me (with so many overlapping open projects). Because if the cash faucet is turned off for any reason, what happens to my outstanding orders? I shared my experience because I feel everyone needs to be more skeptical about Kickstarter projects. The problem is that what they are doing with increasing the frequency of campaigns, the risk is increasing (normally as time passes, investing in a company should become less risky).

Just a few months ago I had total trust in Mierce based on my experience. But after the CSM debacle I have stepped back to look at things more critically and there are some small signals here that are a bit similar to the CSM situation.

This is precisely why KS is not a pre order.

You are not purchasing the product, you're investing in the company and receiving product as a return later on down the road.

Many companies have begun to use KS as a method of securing pre-orders and avoiding the cash flow issues inherent in producing a product prior to people buying it from you, I don't necessarily think Mierce are the worst offenders at this, or even guilty of it at all, but it is important not to lose sight of the fact that your money IS at risk when you back a KS project, and it is important you be ok with that when you pledge.

 cincydooley wrote:

coolguitar7 wrote:
I
I really want to see Mierce succeed long term. So I'm hoping you guys will share more of the specifics of your business plan with us backers. Exact numbers are not important, but some reassurances that you have a realistic and viable plan for the future will help keep confidence up. Blind faith in Kickstarters is almost over. Backers are becoming wiser and will require more information going forward.

I hope you don't, Rob. And hopefully you don't feel like you have to. That, quite frankly, isn't our business as customers.

Getting our product to us is, as is the open communication of production of said product. Both of which Mierce have been top of the line in.

Lol because blind faith and Rob worked out so well before.

SeanDrake wrote:

 cincydooley wrote:

coolguitar7 wrote:
I
I really want to see Mierce succeed long term. So I'm hoping you guys will share more of the specifics of your business plan with us backers. Exact numbers are not important, but some reassurances that you have a realistic and viable plan for the future will help keep confidence up. Blind faith in Kickstarters is almost over. Backers are becoming wiser and will require more information going forward.

I hope you don't, Rob. And hopefully you don't feel like you have to. That, quite frankly, isn't our business as customers.

Getting our product to us is, as is the open communication of production of said product. Both of which Mierce have been top of the line in.

Lol because blind faith and Rob worked out so well before.

Where's the blind faith? My money in KS1 was small. And it's grown because they've proven since March of 2013 that they would be delivering on their KS requirements. They've been consistently on time or even early with sculpts, make us immediately aware when there are going to be delays, and communicate better than nearly every KS I've backed (and I've backed a significant number). They've built up that trust with the people backing their KS over nearly two years time.

You can look in the past, and people that look to the "maelstrom incident" are justified in doing so, but for many of us, that's long in the past (and in reality it actually is fairly long in the past) and the subsequent positive experiences with Mierce more than make up for it. And FWIW, I lost a little bit of money in the "maelstrom incident," but knew that I might.

So again, it's hardly blind faith, but I appreciate your one off comment here that adds absolutely nothing to this discussion.

However I DO think they should at least have fulfilled all but the most recent of their efforts before coming back to fund more stuff yet again. That has become my rule for RBG anyway.

Become. Through bitter experience.

Where things for you went bad, for Mierce it worked out okay. There have been some delays but that aside they've done pretty well release wise - there updates make it clear whats coming and where, and by having wave 'dates' that are consistant between different kickstarters and pretty clear. Wave four is shipping currently - which is KS 3 and anything previous to that approximately. Its why there able to trade on good faith - people know where they stand.

You produce some excellent figures but so much lets you down. You should be, at this stage with your talent, as big as if not bigger then Hasslefree.

Get advertising, get your stuff into the distribution chain again, and then look at using kickstarter to fund something that compliments your business.... which is exactly what Mierce are doing right now. You should be looking at what Mierce and Hasslefree are doing and copying them because there successful, not complaining about what might have been or what other companies are doing wrong.


Sorry if all that seemed a bit white knight ish. I dont particularly want Mierce to do a new kickstarter simply because I cant keep up with whats what for what ranges. They should let the game bed in a bit. But I've seen Tre jump on threads like this all over the place and there doesnt seem to be any effort by red box to improve. Just a vicious cycle of new idea, kickstarter, moderate success, new idea...

Whoa man, we're a bit all over the place here . But discussion is good!

And thanks, coolguitar, for signing up and sharing your experience. I also have great confidence in Mierce, but having backed a bit over a hundred Kickstarter projects over two and a half years, I've seen too many well intentioned companies run into issues with the "ponzi scheme" danger of multiple open campaigns. I want Mierce to succeed, but that also means I want them to avoid this trap!

If they truly do keep their new campaigns small and manageable, able to be fulfilled in fairly short periods, they should be able to avoid it fine, I think. But it was worth discussing and it's nice to see various people's viewpoints of theses things in the community, too

Well said RiTides. Despite my concerns I am a Mierce fan, and thinking of some of those resin pieces makes me giddy like a child. But the discussion can only be a good thing, I'm thinking.

coolguitar7, I was also idiotically burned by CSM, lost more than a few nickels on Tome of Horrors I and II. It does make you think twice, I hear you there, even if it has nothing to do with Mierce.

As a new(returning) person into war-gaming I think I can be a bit objective and maybe offer some insight into potential new customer mind set..
Don't get me wrong, I LOVE the minis. Those Dragon/Kraken monsters are dope!

However...However....
To be honest, I am not really sure what this "Darklands" is... Other then its shady company history I have not been able to find a lot about it at a quick glance. And if you're trying to sell something it should not need research but be easily found and described... What I mean is the miniatures and projects seem to be all over the shop. It seems like chaos. There's new minis being released all the time so it seems very overwhelming and unstructured. Forgive me my ignorance as I said I am quite new to wargaming. Just not sure what this business is going for.

Not familiar with the narrative at all but the names are totally and utterly off putting. Yeah I could make up my own "fluff and names"... If I buy into the miniatures I would like to also buy into the narrative Thats why WHFB is so very successful even though it is a spawn of the evil money grabbing GW.... Guess it would be nice to see an alternative.

So basically I cant tell if this is a business that's looking to get into mainstream, spread attract new customers,or if its couple guys in a shed making stuff for the "hell of it" for a closed market. If its the latter I think its a shame. I really want to like this game/minature range(?) and buy into it, but from a potential new customers perspective It seems very messy.

What I would love to see from a potential consumers perspective is more "tidying up".
I would love to see consolidation for the game(?):
Put more effort into the website,
More marketing/mainstream approach?
Have some solid factions, streamline the mini ranges? (surely would make it more cost effective)
Make the narrative more easily available(through said improved website)
Listen to your customers and give You're minis normal pronounceable names...
Make this feel like a product/business that's structured rather then churn out new stuff...

Now Please forgive me if I am not making sense or if I said some heresy.
But I am ignorant in the ways of the community.
I do know a lot about business and people mentality.

If this is indeed a business with a vision for expansion, then rather then sell what you want to sell. Sell what people want to buy. Iron rule in my books.

As I said really love the miniatures and I have high hopes for this game(is this a game? )
But s long as I cant tell what it is very easily I am hesitant to buy into it... I think for every person who voices their comments regarding the issues(names... change the blasted names!!! ) I have highlighted there would be at least 20 who would have stumbled like me upon the products and are also potential customers....

Enough rambling.

-1 for changing the names. I love looking up the names of the characters that I don't know how to pronounce and learning something new about celtic lore at the same time.

Wha...?!?

Anyway, that's why it is vitally important that Mierce gets the DARKLANDS rulebook finished, printed and delivered ASAP.

I think printing is currently scheduled for February 2015, with delivery probably happening in March or April.

I think that's what will definitely get the whole thing moving forward with some sustainable momentum.

so "abjbwejvwefvgj of wejhbrewhew is in combat with edb fwebfbewfevwg of the jasdnhbdkaj faction needs to roll a six to activate the effect of his dasbfbbhv"
Ok thats taking the piss but its what it seems to me an outsider.

I'm a dire hard fan of all things roman for example but rather then use the Latin names for legions I will say the "1st Illyrian cohort" when having a chat with a friend coz, well its easier..

I appreciate what you're saying.
But maybe a compromise? Like have the names in the books in plain english with (bracketed celtic equivalent?)

The fluff can still be there.

But Id rather play with Thengar Wolf-blood/wolfskin/wolf-eye/of the wolf then "thengfv dsafsfdbjh..." But I guess its a moot point.
Mierce ultimately gets to make the choice. This approach makes it VERY niche and I think shuts down a lot of potential market.. But that's just my opinion.

I love the minis tho and it makes me cry inside that the names are so crap :(

I really don't understand the issues with the names. You read the words and phonetically sound them out. A name is only strange when you're unfamiliar with it. I'm sure to an "outsider" could look at Ghazghkull Mag Uruk Thraka and just go "Well that sounds weird, so I'm not going to play 40k". That same could go towards several of the Necron names.

If people can learn to say Tchaikovsky, Fyodor Dostoyevsky, or other "foreign" names, it's not that difficult to learn these.