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Ok, i have been reading the new Chaos codex (really like it) but am confused about this item of wargear.

For those who dont have the book....

The Dimensional Key is a "Chaos Atrefact" - a piece of wargear that only certain HQ choices can take. It is an item so doesn't repalce any weapons or anything.

useage - when the holder kills an enemy unit in CC, the key is activated. Once that happens, any units that Deep Strike into play do not scatter.



My issue: The rules entry does not mention anything like "as long as the holder is alive" (the fluff describes the key as being stabbed into the corpse of an enemy - thus weakending the walls between realities) - which suggest the effect stays in place even if the Lord dies later on. The rules also do not mention a range of use at all (nothing like "units entering via deep striek with 12" of the holder will not scatter")

So am i right in thinking that if, for example, my terminator Khorne Lord kills a SINGLE infantry model, ALL my deep striking units land without scatter, no matter where on the tabel they go?

Seems a little too good to be true if i'm honest.

Yes, that is correct. The power affects models within 12" and also makes units arriving not scatter. No requirement for the lord to still be alive for the final power

My bad... I derped...


I didn't realise that all deep striking units were affected on ALL the table

the range bit only seems to apply to where enemy units count as moving through difficult and danger terrain. the deep strike bit is mentioned separately.

First of all, the Key does replace one of your weapons - Pg 91, Chaos Artefacts. "A model can replace one weapon with one of the following."
As to if it's a remain in play effect, it seems like it is. The terrain thing has a 12 inch range on it and that's from the bearer, so if he dies then that effect is removed. But the wording of the Deep Strike stuff seems to indicate that it stays in play and has no range - "Furthermore any friendly units from this codex that arrive by Deep Strike after the Key's power has been unlocked do not scatter."

I'd say the power does remain in effect when the lord is gone

Furthermore any friendly units from this codex that arrive by deep strike after the key's power has been unlocked do not scatter.

From a fluff standpoint too a warp rift probably wouldn't just close because the one who opened it dies.

 kaiserjez wrote:
First of all, the Key does replace one of your weapons - Pg 91, Chaos Artefacts. "A model can replace one weapon with one of the following."

Wrong, as it has a little 3 next to it, that when looked at the Key at the bottom of the page, it says "Does not replace one of the characters weapons"

So it looks like the terrain effect vanishes if the lord dies (no no!), but the deep strike effect remains?

Not bad for that cheap an upgrade.

I suppose the trick will be to get your Lord killing something before your Deep Striek reserves pass their roll to enter play.

 Bloodhorror wrote:

 kaiserjez wrote:
First of all, the Key does replace one of your weapons - Pg 91, Chaos Artefacts. "A model can replace one weapon with one of the following."

Wrong, as it has a little 3 next to it, that when looked at the Key at the bottom of the page, it says "Does not replace one of the characters weapons"

Oh yeah!

Cool, makes it even better!

Exactly.....and if CSM and Daemons are Battle Brothers, then wouldn't the Daemons be able to take advantage of this as well? So when your Daemon allies enter play, none of then scatter (assuming they don't in the first place - never red the codex myself).

Could make Warp Talons a bit nastier though if you're guaranteed to get in that 6" Blind blast thing range.

 Praxiss wrote:
Exactly.....and if CSM and Daemons are Battle Brothers, then wouldn't the Daemons be able to take advantage of this as well? So when your Daemon allies enter play, none of then scatter (assuming they don't in the first place - never red the codex myself).

Could make Warp Talons a bit nastier though if you're guaranteed to get in that 6" Blind blast thing range.

Just would need to somehow make them NOT come down in the first place...

Or at least get a turn 2 charge off with the guy in a Landraider

Thats the plan for my apoc game in a few weeks time. Put a key on a Terminator Khorne lord with 8 Berzerkers in a Land Raider.

Kill one model and then my team mates Daemonettes get to land where-ever they want.

 Ignatius-Grulgor wrote:

From a fluff standpoint too a warp rift probably wouldn't just close because the one who opened it dies.

Agreed. If anything, it would open EVEN MORE!

BWAHAHAHAHAHA!

Not so fast.

Read the Key's rules again.

It says friendly models from this Codex do not scatter.

Codex: Chaos Daemons will still scatter.

As it stands now, Chaos Icons no longer have the "do not scatter" feature anymore.

It seems only this key has that now.

Disclaimer: I haven't finished reading through the whole book so maybe there is some other "do not scatter" trinket in there. "fingers crossed"

40k-noob wrote:
Not so fast.

Read the Key's rules again.

It says friendly models from this Codex do not scatter.

Codex: Chaos Daemons will still scatter.

As it stands now, Chaos Icons no longer have the "do not scatter" feature anymore.

It seems only this key has that now.

Disclaimer: I haven't finished reading through the whole book so maybe there is some other "do not scatter" trinket in there. "fingers crossed"

Doh, missed that bit.

but still, having your Obliterators/terminators/Heldrake Deep Strike in with no scatter is still pretty good.

Keep in mind if you were going 2 on 2 with another CSM player, thats two keys that will cause all your units not to scatter DS. Seems pretty effective considering Abaddon, Typhus, Warp Talons, Raptors, Mutilators, Obliterators, Termies, Sorcerors, and Chaos Lords can all potentially deep strike. Personally I think crowd control, and deep striking are going to be a big part of the upcoming strategies.

Battle Brothers are treated as 'friendly units' from all
points of view. This means, for example, that Battle Brothers...

Using GW language I wonder if the argument could be made that since CD are battle brothers to csm if they could be treated as friendly per the point of view of the csm codex, thus being counted as friendly in the codex..
Fluff wise its absurd not to play it that way.

I would certainly agree that Demons SHOULD be able to benefit from this considering its all really two sides of the same coin as far as how chaos deepstriking works. Unfortunately there is nothing IN the codex about allies to even make that argument.

I think a trickier loophole might be if you include independent characters from battle brothers as part of a deep striking unit from this codex.

Also one could argue that a DP is from both codexes.

For certain I would say that a Demons ally in a 2on2, would benefit if he has taken on CSM in his army. Ie, it works for them but not for us.

Does it say all friendly units, all units from C:CSM or all units? 6th seems to be getting specific with its allocation of who benefits from a given power/ability/wargear/etc.

"Furthurmore any friendly units from this codex that arrive by Deep Strike after the keys power has been unlocked do not scatter."

I decapitalized something as to not be taking it word for word.

Are daemons from this codex? No? Then they do not benefit

If Demons took a CSM Allied Detachment, and CSM were allied with them in a game them that CSM detachement and the CSM player would benefit. But im confident after hours of pouring over the rulebook that is the only case.

i would argue that not even then. As although they are Battle Brothers and Allies (whcih would normally meanthey benefit from each others....stuff) this piece of wargera SPECIFICALLY says that only units taken from Codex: Chaos Space Marines can benefit from the Dimensional Key.

Unfortunately GW seem to be getting (a little bit) better at closing off rule loopholes before they happen.

But yes, in an ideal world where comon sense reigned your Codex Daemon allies would benefit from the Key used by a Chaso Space marine Lord. Oh well.

 Praxiss wrote:
i would argue that not even then. As although they are Battle Brothers and Allies (whcih would normally meanthey benefit from each others....stuff) this piece of wargera SPECIFICALLY says that only units taken from Codex: Chaos Space Marines can benefit from the Dimensional Key.

Unfortunately GW seem to be getting (a little bit) better at closing off rule loopholes before they happen.

But yes, in an ideal world where comon sense reigned your Codex Daemon allies would benefit from the Key used by a Chaso Space marine Lord. Oh well.

This. Seems silly and I think there should be a rule for non daemon models of a particular mark granting a deep strike bonus to daemons of the same mark. But yes, sadly they are not of the same codex so can't be done.

So what if my allied detachment of daemons had dp's in it. Its in both codexes. Could I deep strike them in where i want?

NO, because that particular Dp has been taken from a detachment drawn form a different codex.

Similar example -

I take a Space marine army with a piece of wargear that says "all Predators from Codex:Space Marines gain the Skyfire rule"

If i then take an allied detachment of Blood Angels, do my Blood Angles Predators get the same rule? NO. because they are from Codex:Blood Angles, not Codex:Space Marines.