Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I was wondering who does armored combat (vehicles/transports) the best amongst marine armies (game wise not fluff) taking into account changes in 6th and in games around the 1850-2000 range. I know 5th has nerfed vehicles but I don't like foot lists too much. Also any armored tactics people have is welcomed too.

Black Templars are pretty beastly. Every troop option may take a Land Raider as a transport. Power of Machine Spirit is an option for every vehicle, including Vindicators and Predators. My buddy who plays them is praying they don't update his codex.

They all do it pretty well. The key is to spam Razorbacks, or with BTs LRCs.

So really its the codex that can take the most efficient small MEW units of 5-6 guys. And thats Space Wolves because they can take a Special Weapon at that size.

Blood angels. Land raiders are dedicated, razorbacks get a point discount for removing jump packs from assault squad and can take a solid set of weapons, plus they are fast vehicles and get to shoot more weapons than standard vehicles. Then there is the regular and baal predators, also fast vehicles, then vindicator, also fast.

Lets not forget flyers, the ba storm raven is rediculously awesome. 4 str8 ap1 missiles, tl ass canon or tl lascanon plus tl heavy Bolter or tl multi melta. Oh yea, it holds infantry and a dread and is an assault vehicle to boot. Yea, awesome.

The answer you seek lies in Codex:ba

I came to say BA as well. Baal preds in FA, preds/vindi's in heavy. And land raiders being dedicated(although unfortunately not fast) and able to deep strike lol

Anything but C:SM

Haha that's so true. Best armored mech we can do is 6 dreadnoughts. Which really isn't all that scary.

I'd probably say BA here.

 Grey Templar wrote:
They all do it pretty well. The key is to spam Razorbacks, or with BTs LRCs.

So really its the codex that can take the most efficient small MEW units of 5-6 guys. And thats Space Wolves because they can take a Special Weapon at that size.

So can Dark Angels.

No votes for GK? With all that psybolt ammo?

Might try BA's fast vindicators look too hard to pass up, and whats all this about deep striking land raiders, I've heard this joke before but how do BA do it?

SoloFalcon1138

Grey Templar wrote:
They all do it pretty well. The key is to spam Razorbacks, or with BTs LRCs.

So really its the codex that can take the most efficient small MEW units of 5-6 guys. And thats Space Wolves because they can take a Special Weapon at that size.

So can Dark Angels.

BT can as well

 Spartan089 wrote:
Might try BA's fast vindicators look too hard to pass up, and whats all this about deep striking land raiders, I've heard this joke before but how do BA do it?

Very. Carefully.

All of their Land Raiders are dedicated transports and may be deep buried struck.

BA get cheaper/better Razors, but the squads inside do almost nothing for their points. Space Wolves are actually better at playing mechanized, because GH squads are cheaper and better (more weapons, extra special rule) than AMs. Grey Knights probably trump them both, as Rhinos and Psybolt-equipped Razors are dirt cheap, GK squads can operate well outside Razors and inside Rhinos, and they can bump up the number of shooty hulls with Coteaz providing super-cheap henchman squads which can also take Razors.

GK & BA both get Stormravens too.

Really, all three are pretty solid.

Maybe the new CSM ?

3 helldrakes as fast attack
3 dreadnoughts as elite
3 dakka maulers as support
HQ : Typhus to have acces to dirt cheap but resilient troops that stands on objectives while your armour tramples everything?

 Seb wrote:
Maybe the new CSM ?

3 helldrakes as fast attack
3 dreadnoughts as elite
3 dakka maulers as support
HQ : Typhus to have acces to dirt cheap but resilient troops that stands on objectives while your armour tramples everything?

This, but you could do 9 blight drones instead of helldrakes.
Yay for flying Lemon Russ battle tanks!

Other than CSM I think that from the other MEQ armies GK does it the best. Point for point they just spam shooting everywhere so much more efficiently. Even the guys inside their Psybacks have quality medium/high str shots.

BA are pretty good at it because of the Preds AV13 spam but the RAS in RBs are almost crap once they pop out of the RB. Bolt Pistols + 1 Special vs 1x Psycannon and 4x Stormbolters. You pop a GKSS Psyback and they are still shooting down range the turn they come out.

I've tried to mimic an all mech RB/AV spam army with other MEQs and just couldn't get as efficient and as good shooting as GK. I REALLY want to make another MEQ army do what the OP is trying to do other than GK but it's just not as good..

syypher wrote:
Other than CSM I think that from the other MEQ armies GK does it the best. Point for point they just spam shooting everywhere so much more efficiently. Even the guys inside their Psybacks have quality medium/high str shots.

BA are pretty good at it because of the Preds AV13 spam but the RAS in RBs are almost crap once they pop out of the RB. Bolt Pistols + 1 Special vs 1x Psycannon and 4x Stormbolters. You pop a GKSS Psyback and they are still shooting down range the turn they come out.

I've tried to mimic an all mech RB/AV spam army with other MEQs and just couldn't get as efficient and as good shooting as GK. I REALLY want to make another MEQ army do what the OP is trying to do other than GK but it's just not as good..

WHY would you ever put a psycanon in a freaking razorback? That is a total waste of efficiency since the RB lacks any sort of fire points. If i played GK it would be all rhinos so you could actually fire out of the embarked vehicle.

Why buy a psycanon you cant use? Remember, you are also using non fast razorbacks, so you can only move 6" and fire your one weapon. BA razorbacks are fast and can fire two weapons moving at 12"(i believe this is correct, might be 6" two weapons 12" one, but have to recheck) and that makes them more mobile with more firepower taking a LC and plasma turret, and mobility is a key to this game. Now, lets look at the storm raven option, gk SR is fairly good, but it doesnt compare to the BA version, bloodstrike missiles are insanely good, plus the option to take a DC dread with talons that give you extra kills, yes please.

Summed up, you should take Rhinos in a gk psycanon list, and it very well could be better than a BA razorback list, but i dont think so its fairly close to even honestly.

 Dave-c wrote:

syypher wrote:
Other than CSM I think that from the other MEQ armies GK does it the best. Point for point they just spam shooting everywhere so much more efficiently. Even the guys inside their Psybacks have quality medium/high str shots.

BA are pretty good at it because of the Preds AV13 spam but the RAS in RBs are almost crap once they pop out of the RB. Bolt Pistols + 1 Special vs 1x Psycannon and 4x Stormbolters. You pop a GKSS Psyback and they are still shooting down range the turn they come out.

I've tried to mimic an all mech RB/AV spam army with other MEQs and just couldn't get as efficient and as good shooting as GK. I REALLY want to make another MEQ army do what the OP is trying to do other than GK but it's just not as good..

WHY would you ever put a psycanon in a freaking razorback? That is a total waste of efficiency since the RB lacks any sort of fire points. If i played GK it would be all rhinos so you could actually fire out of the embarked vehicle.

Why buy a psycanon you cant use? Remember, you are also using non fast razorbacks, so you can only move 6" and fire your one weapon. BA razorbacks are fast and can fire two weapons moving at 12"(i believe this is correct, might be 6" two weapons 12" one, but have to recheck) and that makes them more mobile with more firepower taking a LC and plasma turret, and mobility is a key to this game. Now, lets look at the storm raven option, gk SR is fairly good, but it doesnt compare to the BA version, bloodstrike missiles are insanely good, plus the option to take a DC dread with talons that give you extra kills, yes please.

Summed up, you should take Rhinos in a gk psycanon list, and it very well could be better than a BA razorback list, but i dont think so its fairly close to even honestly.

SRs for sure the BA's are better hands down.

Don't really agree with the rest of your assessment though.

You pop a BA RAS RB in the DZ and they are shooting at you with a PG maybe or nothing at all for 1-2 more turns while they walk up the field. (Bolt Pistols...) You pop a GK Psyback in the DZ and they are still throwing 8x S4 and 2-4x S7 24" shots down the field at you. Almost comparable to the load out of the Psyback even! Next turn you Psycannons are shooting 4x S7 rending shots...thats' ridic.

You move up with your fast BA RAS RB 12" fire both your LC/PG turret. Compare that to move up 6" fire your TL Assault Cannon with Psybolt ammo (rending), (unloaded your guys) and fire 8x S4 and 2x S7 shots as well.

From a pure firepower shooting POV GK wins hands down. I mean correct me or try to persuade me otherwise...I'd love to play BA over GK if you can convince me I'm wrong. Just trying to debate to find out what's really better.

syypher wrote:

 Dave-c wrote:

syypher wrote:
Other than CSM I think that from the other MEQ armies GK does it the best. Point for point they just spam shooting everywhere so much more efficiently. Even the guys inside their Psybacks have quality medium/high str shots.

BA are pretty good at it because of the Preds AV13 spam but the RAS in RBs are almost crap once they pop out of the RB. Bolt Pistols + 1 Special vs 1x Psycannon and 4x Stormbolters. You pop a GKSS Psyback and they are still shooting down range the turn they come out.

I've tried to mimic an all mech RB/AV spam army with other MEQs and just couldn't get as efficient and as good shooting as GK. I REALLY want to make another MEQ army do what the OP is trying to do other than GK but it's just not as good..

WHY would you ever put a psycanon in a freaking razorback? That is a total waste of efficiency since the RB lacks any sort of fire points. If i played GK it would be all rhinos so you could actually fire out of the embarked vehicle.

Why buy a psycanon you cant use? Remember, you are also using non fast razorbacks, so you can only move 6" and fire your one weapon. BA razorbacks are fast and can fire two weapons moving at 12"(i believe this is correct, might be 6" two weapons 12" one, but have to recheck) and that makes them more mobile with more firepower taking a LC and plasma turret, and mobility is a key to this game. Now, lets look at the storm raven option, gk SR is fairly good, but it doesnt compare to the BA version, bloodstrike missiles are insanely good, plus the option to take a DC dread with talons that give you extra kills, yes please.

Summed up, you should take Rhinos in a gk psycanon list, and it very well could be better than a BA razorback list, but i dont think so its fairly close to even honestly.

SRs for sure the BA's are better hands down.

Don't really agree with the rest of your assessment though.

You pop a BA RAS RB in the DZ and they are shooting at you with a PG maybe or nothing at all for 1-2 more turns while they walk up the field. (Bolt Pistols...) You pop a GK Psyback in the DZ and they are still throwing 8x S4 and 2-4x S7 24" shots down the field at you. Almost comparable to the load out of the Psyback even! Next turn you Psycannons are shooting 4x S7 rending shots...thats' ridic.

You move up with your fast BA RAS RB 12" fire both your LC/PG turret. Compare that to move up 6" fire your TL Assault Cannon with Psybolt ammo (rending), (unloaded your guys) and fire 8x S4 and 2x S7 shots as well.

From a pure firepower shooting POV GK wins hands down. I mean correct me or try to persuade me otherwise...I'd love to play BA over GK if you can convince me I'm wrong. Just trying to debate to find out what's really better.

You are missing the point in general here. If you put your psycanons in a razorback you are wasting them, it is highly unlikely i will even shoot at your RB because i would rather you shoot your one RB weapon at me then have you pile out and shoot at me with your Psycanons, that is extrememly ineffective. If you are going to load psycanons into a vehicle, it better damn well have firing points or you are seriously reducing the effectiveness of your precious weapon, which is one of the best weapons in the entire game.

If i were to take razorbacks in a GK army i would combat squad a 10 man purifier and put all the combat guys in the RB and set up the psycanons in terrain, that is point efficient, what you are doing is not because you are simply wasting points and shots inside of that thing.

 Dave-c wrote:

You are missing the point in general here. If you put your psycanons in a razorback you are wasting them, it is highly unlikely i will even shoot at your RB because i would rather you shoot your one RB weapon at me then have you pile out and shoot at me with your Psycanons, that is extrememly ineffective.

You overlooked what I said...if you don't shoot my RB if you have turn 1, my turn 1 I WILL be moving forward 6", unloading my guys, and now shooting an insane amount of firepower down your way.

I'm not keeping my GKSS in the RBs...they buy it because GK has Psybacks that are extremely powerful and point efficient with Psybolt Ammo. I CAN keep them in it...if I want to...but your assuming I'm leaving all that awesome firepower in the RB with no fireports. Correct me if I'm wrong...but I'm pretty sure I can move 6", unload the GKSS with all that firepower and like you said, one of the best weapons in the entire game, and fire with BOTH the RB and the GKSS. (Otherwise, I know I can unload 6" of a door, move the RB 6" and then fire both the GKSS and the RB)

Stop thinking I'm leaving them in there. They are there to camp midfield and pour their absurd amount of firepower down towards the enemy. Are you assuming I'm not capable of maximizing my firepower by deploying my GKSS outside of my RB with no fireports? If so...your argument is pretty sound.

Then why take the RB if you are not going to use it as a transport? It has two main purpose, to hold troops inside and protect them from being shot and to also be a firing platform for a heavy weapon.

It would be more points efficient to either take a rhino and make it a 10 man squad so you can pack more psycanons into your list than to take a razorback, then you can hide inside and fire out of it and be safe until someone breaks the rhino, which is cheaper and is in some ways better(also not so critical to lose because it doesnt have a pricey gun on it).

That being said, a BA RB does these things better for less. You get a huge discount on them because you are taking assault squad minus their jump packs, then you have cheap squads inside that cost very little.

GK with rhinos>BA RB if you take a lot of psycanons, GK RB is less efficient than BA RB.

Matter of opinion at this point and highly unlikely i will convert you, so i will not say anymore and let it end here. Feel free to rebuttal, but i wont start an argument over it.

How about Chaos marines? Both regular marines and plague marines look quite good.

I'd stay away from BT. We can do it well, but if that is WHAT you are looking for do not rely upon them to keep doing it well. The fact that we are good at it, similar to the fact that we have 2 CMLs in Termie groups weren't intended. It's so old that it looks intended. If they were smart, they would keep these things to give BT more of a unique flavor since so much of it has gone by the way side for all other SM chapters. However, I would not put money on us keeping all the cool little stuff we have from being so old.