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Made in us
Twisting Tzeentch Horror





I don't have my book on me so I don't remember the name but I know it doesn't go into detail about this.
Here is the question.

I have a unit (without infiltrate) in which i join my warlord to (who doesn't have infiltrate).
I roll a 1 so i give 1 infantry unit infiltrate.
Can i infiltrate my warlord AND the unit?

Pretty much does the warlord join the unit and then all of them get nominated to have infiltrate or do they get nominated and then the character joins?

Mess with the best, Die like the rest. 
   
Made in us
Loyal Necron Lychguard






No, last line of infiltrate "An Independent Character without the Infiltrate rule cannot join a unit of infiltrators during deployment."

They get nominated then he joins.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/10/10 18:43:30


 
   
Made in gb
Decrepit Dakkanaut




Nomination is before deployment, which is the same time an IC can join a unit.

If you disagree Kevin please find a quote contradicting the codex rule stating you choose before deployment.

Nothing prohibits you from joining, then nominating.
   
Made in us
Rough Rider with Boomstick




Ohio, USA

read p121, Determine Warlord Traits paragraph

Clears it up nicely.

"Ignorance is bliss, and I am a happy man."
"When you claim to be a purple unicorn, and I do not argue with you, it is not because I agree with you."
“If the iron is hot, I desire to believe it is hot, and if it is cool, I desire to believe it is cool.”
"Beware when you find yourself arguing that a policy is defensible rather than optimal; or that it has some benefit compared to the null action, rather than the best benefit of any action." 
   
Made in us
Loyal Necron Lychguard






nosferatu1001 wrote:
Nomination is before deployment, which is the same time an IC can join a unit.

If you disagree Kevin please find a quote contradicting the codex rule stating you choose before deployment.

Nothing prohibits you from joining, then nominating.


The only thing I could see is that the codex says to choose 1 unit, not 1 unit and it's attached characters.

Though honestly the easiest way to solve this is to just give the rule to the IC instead of the unit.
   
Made in us
Rough Rider with Boomstick




Ohio, USA

It's a timing issue, and its spelled out on p121.

Warlord Traits are determined before either player deploys, pretty much to answer things like the OP's question

"Ignorance is bliss, and I am a happy man."
"When you claim to be a purple unicorn, and I do not argue with you, it is not because I agree with you."
“If the iron is hot, I desire to believe it is hot, and if it is cool, I desire to believe it is cool.”
"Beware when you find yourself arguing that a policy is defensible rather than optimal; or that it has some benefit compared to the null action, rather than the best benefit of any action." 
   
Made in gb
Decrepit Dakkanaut




 Kevin949 wrote:
nosferatu1001 wrote:
Nomination is before deployment, which is the same time an IC can join a unit.

If you disagree Kevin please find a quote contradicting the codex rule stating you choose before deployment.

Nothing prohibits you from joining, then nominating.


The only thing I could see is that the codex says to choose 1 unit, not 1 unit and it's attached characters.

Though honestly the easiest way to solve this is to just give the rule to the IC instead of the unit.

An IC joined is a member of the unit for all rules purposes.
   
Made in us
Loyal Necron Lychguard






nosferatu1001 wrote:
 Kevin949 wrote:
nosferatu1001 wrote:
Nomination is before deployment, which is the same time an IC can join a unit.

If you disagree Kevin please find a quote contradicting the codex rule stating you choose before deployment.

Nothing prohibits you from joining, then nominating.


The only thing I could see is that the codex says to choose 1 unit, not 1 unit and it's attached characters.

Though honestly the easiest way to solve this is to just give the rule to the IC instead of the unit.

An IC joined is a member of the unit for all rules purposes.


It's moot, as stated before, the warlord trait is decided before anything else. And while he may be part of the unit "for all purposes", he's still considered a separate unit for some purposes (such as determining your reserves percentage). So, not really "all rules purposes". Besides, like I said, just give the rule to the Character and join him instead of the other way.
   
Made in us
The Hive Mind





 Kevin949 wrote:
So, not really "all rules purposes".

No, really - the IC rules state it's all rules purposes.

My beautiful wife wrote:Trucks = Carnifex snack, Tanks = meals.
 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran




rigeld2 wrote:
No, really - the IC rules state it's all rules purposes.
Other rules disagree. I believe we call them "exceptions".
   
Made in ca
Veteran Inquisitorial Tyranid Xenokiller






With the way it's worded you cannot grant Infiltrate to a unit and join an IC to do this, the rules for infiltrate don't allow it. What it does allow is for you to grant Infiltrate to an IC and then attach it to a unit, this 2nd method does give Infiltrate and Outflank to the whole unit.

Yes its bass ackwards, but it works RAW
   
Made in us
Rough Rider with Boomstick




Ohio, USA

p121 "Before either player deploys, they must first each determine their Warlord traits.... This is done now because the Warlord traits could grant special deployment rules to part of a player's force that may affect a player's subsequent deployment of their forces."

"Ignorance is bliss, and I am a happy man."
"When you claim to be a purple unicorn, and I do not argue with you, it is not because I agree with you."
“If the iron is hot, I desire to believe it is hot, and if it is cool, I desire to believe it is cool.”
"Beware when you find yourself arguing that a policy is defensible rather than optimal; or that it has some benefit compared to the null action, rather than the best benefit of any action." 
   
Made in us
Tzeentch Aspiring Sorcerer Riding a Disc






Battle Barge Impossible Fortress

More of a reason to build a list that has at least 1 good Infiltrate-worthy unit if you run Huron or Ahriman. I sure wish they had the rule themselves :p

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/10/10 22:29:33


 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





are you ignoring the individual who keeps telling you what to do?

The IC can be the unit granted inflitrate, if he joins a squad then the squad recieves this rule(as only one model need have this rule for it to work). This means that even if arhiman can grant infiltrate to 1 unit, he can grant himself infiltrate, and bring along a squad with him.

For all the randomness built into this codex, this is at least one thing you can bank on.
-Mark

I welcome it.
-Mark 
   
Made in au
Frenzied Berserker Terminator






Hmm.

So, you grant an infantry character (a barebones sorcerer or something) the Infiltrate ability.

Then you join him to a unit of bikes or raptors before deployment.

The character would have to leave the unit before it moves, leaving him pretty vulnerable, but still.
   
Made in us
Loyal Necron Lychguard






 Cheexsta wrote:
Hmm.

So, you grant an infantry character (a barebones sorcerer or something) the Infiltrate ability.

Then you join him to a unit of bikes or raptors before deployment.

The character would have to leave the unit before it moves, leaving him pretty vulnerable, but still.


He would not HAVE to leave the unit.
   
Made in us
Tzeentch Aspiring Sorcerer Riding a Disc






Battle Barge Impossible Fortress

Excellent. It appears as though Ahriman rocks socks.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2012/10/10 23:39:44


 
   
Made in au
Frenzied Berserker Terminator






 Kevin949 wrote:
 Cheexsta wrote:
Hmm.

So, you grant an infantry character (a barebones sorcerer or something) the Infiltrate ability.

Then you join him to a unit of bikes or raptors before deployment.

The character would have to leave the unit before it moves, leaving him pretty vulnerable, but still.


He would not HAVE to leave the unit.

Huh, I totally forgot about that change. Might be an interesting way to slingshot slower characters (or even units) into assault.

Thinking about it, this idea isn't as powerful as it sounds, since you can do pretty much the same thing just by putting an infantry unit in a dedicated transport and infiltrating that instead.

Oh man, that trait is truly wicked. Yep, Ahriman and Huron are both great HQ choices now...
   
Made in us
Tzeentch Aspiring Sorcerer Riding a Disc






Battle Barge Impossible Fortress

Yeah. Anyone using them has nothing to complain about.
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





In theory, you could add a character to a squad with a dedicated transport, and give the character infiltrate, and get all three units infiltrated. Frighteningly, i think this could be used to get a landraider to infiltrate with a termy squad... not really sure why youd want that on turn one though...

I welcome it.
-Mark 
   
Made in gb
Jovial Plaguebearer of Nurgle




England

Yep, stuffing a special weapon squad in a rhino and outflanking with them is probably the best thing you can do with this trait.

Huron is amazing for his points.

Did you know? The Reach belongs to the Forsworn. 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





 A Kvlt Ghost wrote:
Yep, stuffing a special weapon squad in a rhino and outflanking with them is probably the best thing you can do with this trait.

Huron is amazing for his points.


Yes its amazing you can take a special character and possibly infiltrate and outflank as many special weapons as you could in the old codex, if you roll really well.

Brilliant! This is just what I was hoping for for 6th edition! Thank you Phil Kelly!



   
 
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