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So I tried orks again and was curbstomped by the stores IG parking lot player (x3 full squads of leman russ and x3 full squads of hellhounds and two chimeras with flamer vets)
I wasnt happy. I couldnt kill a single tank and I spammed every single elite slot with tank bustas and for heavy support was all Zzap gun artillery (Nine Zzap guns only one blew up on its own)
So how do ork players deal with tanks? Shouldnt they be able to kill tanks knowing they are manned by soft pink ummies?

Put away the tankbustas and Zzzap guns and replace them with lootas and kannons.

The most reliable way for orks to pop tanks in 5th was deffrollas. Haven't played my orks a ton in 6th but id argue it is still likely the best way (albeit it not quite as good as in 5th).

When I have to deal with IG and Tau tanks, I usually prefer to simply power klaw them or hit 'em with a deff rolla.

My true favorite is the outflanking/scouting deffkopta, as they've almost always killed more than double their value (Rokkit outflanks, shoots at the AV10 and you're opponent is down 150+ points).

The Dakkajet can also do quite a bit of damage.

If you're lucky, a Shokk Attack gun can rip open armor (scored a 10 for strength and punched through a devilfish).

I'm having the same problem with the IG player I play regularly. I'm building a list to counter it as best as I can but Orks just lack high str weapons that can penetrate AV 14 reliably. SAG is a BIG if as are zzap guns. I'm gonna try a truck rush with nobs and PK's and a Deff Rolla. If not that a small biker unit to rush in and hit them early, two units to hit from two directions would be even better. Only caveat to this is a good IG player will have his tanks in the back or surrounded by his infantry, bubble wrapping the tanks.

The dakkajet could work, but I don't know enough about skorcha missiles and the bomber variant is only like 33% reliable if I recall correctly.

 CageUF wrote:
The most reliable way for orks to pop tanks in 5th was deffrollas. Haven't played my orks a ton in 6th but id argue it is still likely the best way (albeit it not quite as good as in 5th).

It is.

You need to bring a powerful or fast assaulting force to the IG in order to win properly against IG, Kannons and lootas won't do crud against Leman russes and the chimeras and hellhounds will eat through your army before you can kill them all since a smart play will blast foward first turn since it sounds like you are a foot slogger.

You need speed and agression because you can't out-gun the IG you heavy supposrts would be better spent on Battlewagons with boyz and powerklaws, your elites shoudl take some Lootas to take on good front and side armors of 12+ Dakka jets to mow down infantry or rear armor vehicles as well as absorb shots.

Another way is to make the Biker Nobz + Boss combo IG has no way of effectively erasing that with this current loadout other than the hell hounds possibly lowering your saves to 5+, so simply use lootaz on them first.

Ig are easy to take on if you know you are fighting them but Zzap guns are less than ideal in most games to begin with kannons are cheaper and more dependable but i personally urge you not to go overboard the battlewagon should never be looked in the mouth if you keep it on a flank and make sure it's nearly impossible to claim side armor you should be fine to blast forward 25 inches first round move out 7 drop your 20 boy squad out an additional 6 inches and then Waaagh 2nd turn and hopefully unless you rolled bad you should have your Dakka jets in the same time you way and crack his Leman Russ squad, because unless he takes the models with rear armor 11 even boyz can glance normally 2 to death on their own now.

And look at how many fast things they can be attached to. Assault armies may have been hurt in general, but vehicles are now more vulnerable than ever to close combat.

 Ailaros wrote:


And look at how many fast things they can be attached to. Assault armies may have been hurt in general, but vehicles are now more vulnerable than ever to close combat.

Defkopta with buzzsaw for example. Waaagh!

Personal favourite for me is the not-so-humble Bikerboss

 Nurgle wrote:
So I tried orks again and was curbstomped by the stores IG parking lot player (x3 full squads of leman russ and x3 full squads of hellhounds and two chimeras with flamer vets)
I wasnt happy. I couldnt kill a single tank and I spammed every single elite slot with tank bustas and for heavy support was all Zzap gun artillery (Nine Zzap guns only one blew up on its own)
So how do ork players deal with tanks? Shouldnt they be able to kill tanks knowing they are manned by soft pink ummies?

Zzap gunz are really bad at killing vehicles (BS3 zzap guns are worse than BS2 rokkits), so you shouldn't be too surprised about that.

Leman Russ with full plasma weapons are cheap dude. That large blast plasma shot is such crap. He makes us use 5th rules so I cant glance to death not to mention. I know orks arent ment for big games but when you have a club this stubborn and one board its a pain because 9/10 times you are fighting him. Part of it is we need a new board. The guy that handles the money bought a board for the game Magic (lolwut?) so I am stuck on both being able to play and risk losing Most of the time or not playing at all. Mabye some Grey Knight Plasma syphons would help?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Ascalam wrote:
Personal favourite for me is the not-so-humble Bikerboss

He kills him with one shot dont get me started on that.

 Nurgle wrote:
Leman Russ with full plasma weapons are cheap dude. That large blast plasma shot is such crap. He makes us use 5th rules so I cant glance to death not to mention. I know orks arent ment for big games but when you have a club this stubborn and one board its a pain because 9/10 times you are fighting him. Part of it is we need a new board. The guy that handles the money bought a board for the game Magic (lolwut?) so I am stuck on both being able to play and risk losing Most of the time or not playing at all. Mabye some Grey Knight Plasma syphons would help?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Ascalam wrote:
Personal favourite for me is the not-so-humble Bikerboss

He kills him with one shot dont get me started on that.

If you're stuck in 5th, go with a kan wall with KFF meks. You're army will march forward with a 4+ cover save.

Then take 3 deff koptas as individual units, they can out flank with tlrk's and buzz saws.

Lastly a squad of komandos with snikrot and a warboss on a bike should be a big help as well.

then 2 squads of lootas, even if you just go 5 a squad placed in opposite corners for the side armor shots.

the rest of the points into boys.

Agreed! Kan wall will do it, and kans will pop them tanks like cherry tomatos take the kans with grotzookas too! The zookas will make short work of his large groups of infantry as well

Did you play a 3000 points game against an IG player know to field a parking lot-type army?



.....

 Nurgle wrote:
Leman Russ with full plasma weapons are cheap dude. That large blast plasma shot is such crap. He makes us use 5th rules so I cant glance to death not to mention. I know orks arent ment for big games but when you have a club this stubborn and one board its a pain because 9/10 times you are fighting him. Part of it is we need a new board. The guy that handles the money bought a board for the game Magic (lolwut?) so I am stuck on both being able to play and risk losing Most of the time or not playing at all. Mabye some Grey Knight Plasma syphons would help?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Ascalam wrote:
Personal favourite for me is the not-so-humble Bikerboss

He kills him with one shot dont get me started on that.

Wait wait wait.........the IG player kills the BikerBoss in 1 hit? Please explain how that happens? A BikerBoss is T6, therefore cannot suffer from ID unless there is a special rule that states it causes ID, like GK can on damn near everything. Your biker boss should be able to lolsmack tanks with relative ease.

Which is exactly why i take him.

The new rule with 6th that granted bikers the higher toughness bracket as their ONLY T stat really made Bikerbosses worth taking. It also makes Nurgle stuff fething scary tough...

Also, why would you be running the Boss all alone to be one-shotted? He can attach to a unit or other bikers (i usually run him with a warbiker mob) and LOS any hit that does land on him.

If you are forced to use 5th, then leave him with a mob of bikers anyway, and he'll be fine until they are all dead.

How about some tankbustas in a wagon with 4 rokkits and a maybe a cannon?.

I converted some boyz into tankbustas last month and was ready to test them... but, Nurgle be damned, an illness has kept me away from the tabletops (and from any other activities, for what matters) for 20+ days, so I can't really tell if its a good idea or not. Any tips?

 KingCracker wrote:

 Nurgle wrote:
Leman Russ with full plasma weapons are cheap dude. That large blast plasma shot is such crap. He makes us use 5th rules so I cant glance to death not to mention. I know orks arent ment for big games but when you have a club this stubborn and one board its a pain because 9/10 times you are fighting him. Part of it is we need a new board. The guy that handles the money bought a board for the game Magic (lolwut?) so I am stuck on both being able to play and risk losing Most of the time or not playing at all. Mabye some Grey Knight Plasma syphons would help?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Ascalam wrote:
Personal favourite for me is the not-so-humble Bikerboss

He kills him with one shot dont get me started on that.

Wait wait wait.........the IG player kills the BikerBoss in 1 hit? Please explain how that happens? A BikerBoss is T6, therefore cannot suffer from ID unless there is a special rule that states it causes ID, like GK can on damn near everything. Your biker boss should be able to lolsmack tanks with relative ease.

Two plasma sponsors on side, one oversized plasma turret, then the hull mounted whatever it was I think las? In the end when you add on the entire leman russ's squad shooting him that means one squad hits him and kills him. Can change targets mid shooting IE: turret shots grot, right sponsor hits Zzap gun, left spons hits what ever he sees. So yeah if we want to be exact it isnt one hit but the SQUAD hits him at once thus killing him with one blow or hit.

 Nurgle wrote:

 KingCracker wrote:

 Nurgle wrote:
Leman Russ with full plasma weapons are cheap dude. That large blast plasma shot is such crap. He makes us use 5th rules so I cant glance to death not to mention. I know orks arent ment for big games but when you have a club this stubborn and one board its a pain because 9/10 times you are fighting him. Part of it is we need a new board. The guy that handles the money bought a board for the game Magic (lolwut?) so I am stuck on both being able to play and risk losing Most of the time or not playing at all. Mabye some Grey Knight Plasma syphons would help?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Ascalam wrote:
Personal favourite for me is the not-so-humble Bikerboss

He kills him with one shot dont get me started on that.

Wait wait wait.........the IG player kills the BikerBoss in 1 hit? Please explain how that happens? A BikerBoss is T6, therefore cannot suffer from ID unless there is a special rule that states it causes ID, like GK can on damn near everything. Your biker boss should be able to lolsmack tanks with relative ease.

Two plasma sponsors on side, one oversized plasma turret, then the hull mounted whatever it was I think las? In the end when you add on the entire leman russ's squad shooting him that means one squad hits him and kills him. Can change targets mid shooting IE: turret shots grot, right sponsor hits Zzap gun, left spons hits what ever he sees. So yeah if we want to be exact it isnt one hit but the SQUAD hits him at once thus killing him with one blow or hit.

How on earth is he pulling that off? IG tanks are awesome and all, but even we can't split fire like that. There's no way his executioner (thats the IG plasma death tank) is hitting 3 seperate targets at the same time. He is breaking the rules pure and simple if he's switching targets halfway through a salvo with a tank. Also, if he's shooting anything more than the turret and one sponson while moving, good job, he's cheating there too. And, if one of the sponsons can't see the target, he doesn't get to pick another target, it just doesn't shoot. Period. That means he better be pivoting his tank to face a unit he wants to shoot with both sponsons. Even if he's got a squadron of them, they must fire ALL their shots at the same target, no matter how much overkill that is. He might be able to scatter a couple of shots onto other units by accident, but if this guy is saying "yeah I'll put the 3 blasts from the turret on the kannonz, the right sponson on the kannonz, and since my left sponson can't see them they'll shoot the biker boss" he's cheating you big time.

Sounds like your problem may be less a tactical and more a TFG problem. Also, why on earth will he not play 6th? If anything, that edition helped IG rather than hurt it. I would think an IG player would welcome it with open arms, tank commanders especially.

Rokkit Buggies, Deffkoptas w/Rokkits and Buzzsaws outflanking, etc...

Lootas are good too, even on AV13, you can still glance stuff to death.

Kommandos w/Snikrot from behind works fairly well on the rear armor. Not as well as before, as now boyz aren't able to glance AV10, but still a good surprise unit IMO.

I still go with the tried and true Deffrollas though. These will really tear things up, accompanied by a squad of boyz and standard Nob w/Power Klaw it will wreck face. Getting up the board may be harder now, but should still be doable.

But yeah, there's something fishy about the way this IG player is running his tanks....

MrMoustaffa wrote:Sounds like your problem may be less a tactical and more a TFG problem.

Or a "what are these things called rules?" problem, more like.

Tactically speaking, you can take the biker boss and put him in a unit of bikes and TA-DAA, he's now part of a squad, and can't just be singled out immediately for instant carnage. They've at least got to chew through a couple of other bikes (with a permanent 4+ cover save) first. As it should take you two turns, tops, to get into close combat with stuff (like, say, a nearly 250 point plasma tank), this thing shouldn't be shutting you down before you get a chance to move your boss.

Yup, dude's cheating.

For reference here: Leman Russes can only fire at one target, like everyone else (POTMS and Tau aside )

He can't multi-target .


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ask him to show you the passage in his codex that lets him multitarget, if you don't believe me

If he won't he's a cheating tool

OP mentions taking GK for plasma syphon- clearly an allied detatchment. Yet opponent is using 5th Ed ruleset? Huh?
Splitting fire midvolley... Do Whot? Leman Russ squadron taking out biker mob + boss consistently in single volley whilst splitting fire on other units... Huh?
Single board to play on at club... Huh?
Smells like cheating TFG. Beat him the orky way- 'url half a brick at his head.

If your playing 6th Ed- my advice is read the rules and have the book at hand, because 5th or 6th squadrons do not split fire
If your playing 5th- kan wall? Wagons with KFF?

Either way, guy sounds like a cheating prick eh. My advice is half a brick to the 'ead

 Jihallah wrote:
My advice is half a brick to the 'ead

Exactly. Or get him to an Apocalypse game and do the same thing with your Gargants. Might be hilarious to see his face

Or start making up rules of your own. If your opponent isn't bound by the rules in the main rulebook or in his codex, then neither are you.

I'd like to see the look on your opponent's face when you tell him that you re-checked your codex, and it says explicitly that imperial guard tanks can't hurt ork units.

Stormboyz function as kamikaze troops.

Those rokkit packs are MEGA ROKKITS.

When they deepstrike, they can choose to mishap onto a vehicle for an instant S10 AP1 hit per stormboy that mishaps onto a vehicle.
Oh, and you can split the squad into as many groups as you want when you deepstrike.

Or da kustomizable kustom force field- pick an army. This KFF is kustomized to work only against that codex, but makes anything within the field invulnerable to all shooting attacks from that codex.

Hohohoho orky engineering at it's finest

 Ailaros wrote:
Or start making up rules of your own. If your opponent isn't bound by the rules in the main rulebook or in his codex, then neither are you.

I'd like to see the look on your opponent's face when you tell him that you re-checked your codex, and it says explicitly that imperial guard tanks can't hurt ork units.

"So yeah, turns out that Orks have a special rule that I missed called 'Immune To BS' and get a 2+ save against all IG units. No wonder I was having so much trouble, this should balance it out."

I got some ideas to feed to your opponent:
Imperialbane (2 pts per model): The weapon wounds all Imperial models (Space Marines, Imperial Guard, SW, GK, DA, BT, BA, SoB, etc) with a Toughness value on 2+. Imperial vehicles take a penetrating hit on a to hit roll of 2+. (for PK and BC)
Gork's blessing (1 pt per model): The model has a 2+ invulnerable save. Furthermore it can re-roll all failed saves.
Mork's blessing (1 pt per model): The unit has the Scout and Deep Strike special rules and can assault the turn it arrives from reserve.
Supa Lens (replacing big shootas, 5 pts): Range 21312513613541234125" S10 AP1 Assault 1, Lance, Large Blast

That should do it

Ok so yeah in all seriousness this thread seems done. Is there something we're missing here OP? Because it sounds like you need to either have a talk with the guy or find a new place to play at.

Also, does he seem like the type that would bend the rules for his benefit (something that seems likely when a person is taking 3 hellhounds, 3 leman russes, and only a couple of troops against orks) or is it possible that he just doesn't understand his rules that well.

 NickTheButcher wrote:
Rokkit Buggies, Deffkoptas w/Rokkits and Buzzsaws outflanking, etc...

Lootas are good too, even on AV13, you can still glance stuff to death.

Kommandos w/Snikrot from behind works fairly well on the rear armor. Not as well as before, as now boyz aren't able to glance AV10, but still a good surprise unit IMO.

I still go with the tried and true Deffrollas though. These will really tear things up, accompanied by a squad of boyz and standard Nob w/Power Klaw it will wreck face. Getting up the board may be harder now, but should still be doable.

But yeah, there's something fishy about the way this IG player is running his tanks....

I agree, when I first played orks at a flgs I got crushed, because I had no anti-tank. (plus I was a noob) But I would argue that you need at least two deff-koptas with buzzsaws, the can flank, and are pretty durable (toughness 5 and two wounds) Plus even if they die they will have soaked up enough fire for your boyz in the truck to get in CC with his tanks. And Deffrolla's... 'nuff said.