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Let me preface this with I believe it is a little dick'ish and would not pull it with a group of friends. And probably feel a bit dirty about it in a tournament game. So here goes.

According to C:Tau p.25 the Advanced Stabilization Systems, ASS, give the unit Slow and Purposeful until the end of the turn when they elect to use it starting in the movement phase. Now in 6th S&P denies Overwatch and a whole host of other things, but the important one here is Overwatch. In return it grants you to fire Heavy, Ordnance, Salvo and Rapid as if you remained stationary and assault in the same turn. The kink here is that in the C:Tau it states these effects only apply in the same turn, and p.9 of the BRB states that a turn is a player turn unless written as a game turn. So, you get moving and shooting with Broadsides at full BS and you still get to Overwatch in the following opponent turn if assaulted.

But wait it gets better. ASS rules also state that if one model in the unit takes it then the whole unit must take it as a piece of wargear, but S&P applies to the whole unit even if a single model has it. So if you equip a commander Shas'o or 'el with the ASS and attach it to the Broadsides you then can still use the S&P for the whole unit and the Broadsides can still pick a Targeting Array or whatever.

And heaven forbid you also take a bonding knife for regrouping, stimulant injector for feel no pain, and vectored retro thrusters for hit and run.

Anyone see a hole in that?

Adv. Stab. Sys. is kinda useless, as the models that can take it are jet pack models and as such have Relentless.

According to the BRB Broadsides aren't Jet Pack Infantry... I dont have C:Tau though so...

They're not but I don't think they have access to the adv stab sys.

Happyjew wrote:
They're not but I don't think they have access to the adv stab sys.

Right - Relentless doesn't apply to the entire unit, but S&P does. Put it on a Crisis IC. Crisis IC attaches to Broadside unit. Broadside unit is now S&P during your turn, but can overwatch during your opponents turn.

I don't see what the big deal is and I don't have a problem with the Tau getting this. They are currently the weakest codex in the game.

This sounds no worse than an IG blob getting fearless/ATSKNF from the addition of an allied GK IC.

Good catch, I'd better tip our Tau player about it. He could really need the help when his shooting army is outshot and outgunned by WD SoB. ;-)

Happyjew wrote:
They're not but I don't think they have access to the adv stab sys.

They do.

I was going off my beer-infused memory and was away from my books when I posted. Kevin is correct that they can take Adv. Stab. Sys. (In case you haven't noticed I don't like the other acronym).

Yup, current A.S.S. Rules combine with the current base rules that you can give any Tau squad slow and purposeful for a turn.

My favorite part is how the definition of a turn is such that the Slow and Purposeful wears off for the enemy turn so you can still do Overwatch.

I find the combination a willful breaking of the intention of the rules and the wargear in question, but it's also perfectly legal.

Well, if people want to march their XV88's up the field and get them closer to my weapons more power to them. Most Tau players I know are perfectly content to let them sit way in the back and abuse their long range weapons.

Happyjew wrote:
Well, if people want to march their XV88's up the field and get them closer to my weapons more power to them. Most Tau players I know are perfectly content to let them sit way in the back and abuse their long range weapons.

I agree thus is more for lateral motion and reaction than moving up field.

Didnt think GK ICs could join anyone, sa theyre not battle brothers with anyone...

nosferatu1001 wrote:
Didnt think GK ICs could join anyone, sa theyre not battle brothers with anyone...

Correct.

So you are complaining that the weakest army in the entire game, got a good, 'sneaky' rule? At the cost of attaching a commander to the unit instead of a unit of crisis suits?

Riiiight....

I think it's fine, but not a complete game breaker.


Von Chogg

Not complaining at all. I am a Tau player. It's just I don't appreciate cheese played on me so I don't like to pull it on someone else.
Because there is rule cheese that you just have to deal with but there is also broken rule cheese and this definitely falls into that category.

I'm not a tau player, but this wouldn't work if it's how you describe. If it lasts until the end of the turn, that denotes "player turn" (ie. your turn), so you lose S&P in your enemy's turn. Does it say game turn in C:tau?

abbazabba1920 wrote:
I'm not a tau player, but this wouldn't work if it's how you describe. If it lasts until the end of the turn, that denotes "player turn" (ie. your turn), so you lose S&P in your enemy's turn. Does it say game turn in C:tau?

Yes that is the point. You gain the benefits of shooting heavy at full BS after moving in your turn then the ASS wears off at the end of your turn so you can fire Overwatch in your opponents assault phase as normal because the S&P is no longer in effect. S&P denies Overwatch.

Doesnt matter, a Tau commander that lets the enemy get within charge range of his broadsides is doing alot more wrong than his broadsides getting to overwatch. My broadsides havent been charged into melee for so long, the enemy would rather shoot lascannons at them instead

As 5th ed didnt even have overwatch, even if you disallow ASS broadsides from overwatching, there would be no change in how tau players use broadsides.

This isnt even the mildest new combo tau can do. Place an HQ commander with a squad of stealth suits and they can be the tankiest thing around. Or place an ASS commander with a sniper drone team to allow them to move and shoot AP3 shots. Or how a HitnRun commander can attach to a farsight bomb to ensure they get to shoot and charge each turn. The Commander is the buffer of all units in a tau army

ahhhh, i thought you were trying to be able to fire ordnance and all those things DURING overwatch. I misunderstood.

What makes this combo even better (and yes the ASS works as described above) is when you place 2 Helios commanders, one with iridium armor and stim injectors and ASS, shield drones to intercept oncoming firepower, and the other commander has vectored retro thrusters. They both attach to a unit of three broadsides with twin linked plasma guns upgrades and multi trackers. then you march the 2+ armor death squad across the board, absorbing firepower with drones when necessary to prevent instant death, rapid-fire absurd weaponry and then charge into the enemy, while using hit-and-run (testing at initiative 4 from the drones) on the enemy turn so you're free to move and shoot again.

It's a seriously, SERIOUSLY hard unit to put down. And it costs between 400-600 points if my mental math is serving me correctly.

 tetrisphreak wrote:
What makes this combo even better (and yes the ASS works as described above) is when you place 2 Helios commanders, one with iridium armor and stim injectors and ASS, shield drones to intercept oncoming firepower, and the other commander has vectored retro thrusters. They both attach to a unit of three broadsides with twin linked plasma guns upgrades and multi trackers. then you march the 2+ armor death squad across the board, absorbing firepower with drones when necessary to prevent instant death, rapid-fire absurd weaponry and then charge into the enemy, while using hit-and-run (testing at initiative 4 from the drones) on the enemy turn so you're free to move and shoot again.

It's a seriously, SERIOUSLY hard unit to put down. And it costs between 400-600 points if my mental math is serving me correctly.

You have to remember though that wen you pull a hit and run from vectored thrust then all drones in the unit are automatically dead.

 terminalmonky wrote:

 tetrisphreak wrote:
What makes this combo even better (and yes the ASS works as described above) is when you place 2 Helios commanders, one with iridium armor and stim injectors and ASS, shield drones to intercept oncoming firepower, and the other commander has vectored retro thrusters. They both attach to a unit of three broadsides with twin linked plasma guns upgrades and multi trackers. then you march the 2+ armor death squad across the board, absorbing firepower with drones when necessary to prevent instant death, rapid-fire absurd weaponry and then charge into the enemy, while using hit-and-run (testing at initiative 4 from the drones) on the enemy turn so you're free to move and shoot again.

It's a seriously, SERIOUSLY hard unit to put down. And it costs between 400-600 points if my mental math is serving me correctly.

You have to remember though that wen you pull a hit and run from vectored thrust then all drones in the unit are automatically dead.

That only applies to the XV-9 Hazard suits from Forge World

Jefffar wrote:

 terminalmonky wrote:

 tetrisphreak wrote:
What makes this combo even better (and yes the ASS works as described above) is when you place 2 Helios commanders, one with iridium armor and stim injectors and ASS, shield drones to intercept oncoming firepower, and the other commander has vectored retro thrusters. They both attach to a unit of three broadsides with twin linked plasma guns upgrades and multi trackers. then you march the 2+ armor death squad across the board, absorbing firepower with drones when necessary to prevent instant death, rapid-fire absurd weaponry and then charge into the enemy, while using hit-and-run (testing at initiative 4 from the drones) on the enemy turn so you're free to move and shoot again.

It's a seriously, SERIOUSLY hard unit to put down. And it costs between 400-600 points if my mental math is serving me correctly.

You have to remember though that wen you pull a hit and run from vectored thrust then all drones in the unit are automatically dead.

That only applies to the XV-9 Hazard suits from Forge World

Also for XV9s, its optional to either kill the drones for an automatic hit and run or just do a regular hit and run

shock_at wrote:

Jefffar wrote:

 terminalmonky wrote:

 tetrisphreak wrote:
What makes this combo even better (and yes the ASS works as described above) is when you place 2 Helios commanders, one with iridium armor and stim injectors and ASS, shield drones to intercept oncoming firepower, and the other commander has vectored retro thrusters. They both attach to a unit of three broadsides with twin linked plasma guns upgrades and multi trackers. then you march the 2+ armor death squad across the board, absorbing firepower with drones when necessary to prevent instant death, rapid-fire absurd weaponry and then charge into the enemy, while using hit-and-run (testing at initiative 4 from the drones) on the enemy turn so you're free to move and shoot again.

It's a seriously, SERIOUSLY hard unit to put down. And it costs between 400-600 points if my mental math is serving me correctly.

You have to remember though that wen you pull a hit and run from vectored thrust then all drones in the unit are automatically dead.

That only applies to the XV-9 Hazard suits from Forge World

Also for XV9s, its optional to either kill the drones for an automatic hit and run or just do a regular hit and run

Actually you should re-read their datasheet- the drone abandonment happens if they have drones, no choice in the matter. However a free hit&run is almost always worth it. I keep 1 shield or gun drone in the rear of the unit to serve this purpose.

 tetrisphreak wrote:

shock_at wrote:

Jefffar wrote:

 terminalmonky wrote:

 tetrisphreak wrote:
What makes this combo even better (and yes the ASS works as described above) is when you place 2 Helios commanders, one with iridium armor and stim injectors and ASS, shield drones to intercept oncoming firepower, and the other commander has vectored retro thrusters. They both attach to a unit of three broadsides with twin linked plasma guns upgrades and multi trackers. then you march the 2+ armor death squad across the board, absorbing firepower with drones when necessary to prevent instant death, rapid-fire absurd weaponry and then charge into the enemy, while using hit-and-run (testing at initiative 4 from the drones) on the enemy turn so you're free to move and shoot again.

It's a seriously, SERIOUSLY hard unit to put down. And it costs between 400-600 points if my mental math is serving me correctly.

You have to remember though that wen you pull a hit and run from vectored thrust then all drones in the unit are automatically dead.

That only applies to the XV-9 Hazard suits from Forge World

Also for XV9s, its optional to either kill the drones for an automatic hit and run or just do a regular hit and run

Actually you should re-read their datasheet- the drone abandonment happens if they have drones, no choice in the matter. However a free hit&run is almost always worth it. I keep 1 shield or gun drone in the rear of the unit to serve this purpose.

I stand corrected then