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I want to experiment with an IG Veteran squad with Forward Sentries and Sgt Bastonne.

I want to use them aggressively to try to do as much damage as possible to enemy vehicles and/MCs early in the game (or high value infantry targets). Grav Chute Insert them from a Vendetta ASAP, aiming for the best cover I can (preferrably ruins). If I can camp for a turn or two in ruins they'll hopefully get a 3+ cover save, and 2+ if the enemy is shooting me within 8". I'm wanting Bastonne there for his orders, his leadership, and for CC (if necessary).

Want is the experience of the IG veterans with this sort of setup, and what special weapons would you take (3 plasma, 3 melta, a combination)? It's about 200pts for a loaded squad, so it would want to kill some significant things to be worthwhile.

BTW I also take Marbo, so I'm hoping the combination of Marbo and the Vets will create a lot of confusion.

No point at all. Bastonne adds next to nothing (his orders are more expensive than just bringing the equivalent bonus firepower though extra guns). Meanwhile getting into position with a Vendetta drop means losing models to dangerous terrain, probably landing off target and out of the ruin, and not arriving until turn 2-3 at the absolute earliest. In short: it's completely a waste.

However, if you want a 2+ save it's easy: take Harker. You get a second heavy weapon for the squad, and in 6th camo cloaks and stealth stack for a total of a 2+ save at any distance in a ruin, not just within 8".

I would second that.
For as many points as Bastonne adds to your squad, you don't get much in return other than the only useful order he has: "Bring it down", and even that is really unnecessary with BS4. If you are spending that many points on a 10-man squad, spend them on something that is actually more versatile: stormtroopers. They have their own set of useful tactics and their hot-shots have some added punch to go along with the special weapons they may bring.

Also if you are gonna be dropping things out a valk I would suggest either doing them with a cheap expendable SWS or the stormtroopers with their re-roll to scatter (another reason why you would be better off taking them if you are going to drop them out a plane).

Thanks for advice

In my Mechanized Grenadiers army, I had a LOT of points left over. I got all six of my Veteran squads Grenadiers, Forward Sentries, AND Demolitions. I also got a Kasrkin Squad (stormtroopers), Marbo, a Vendetta, and a bunch of other goodies. This included slapping Straken into my CCS with 2 plasma and 2 melta, as well as 2 bodyguards. On top of that, everyone is mounted up in chimeras, except for the stormtroopers, who ride in the Vendetta. Still having some points left over, I put Bastonne in one of my Veteran squads.

While he may not seem economical, he does have his uses, and he has not failed me yet. He has led his squad through hell and back on many different occasions in many different games, and I've decided to keep him. On one occasion, he and his squad, who were out of range of my CCS, issued the order "Bring it Down", and took out a Dark Eldar flyer.

It pretty much comes down to this: If you've got the points, feel free. He's more useful than he appears.

 Smitty wrote:
In my Mechanized Grenadiers army, I had a LOT of points left over.

Except at that point you need to start bringing entire additional units. You apparently don't have the models to play at that point level, so you're really (for example) playing a 1500 point army in a 2000 point game. Instead of taking 300 points in extra doctrines, take two more Vendettas/Russes/etc. "Leftover points" only exists as a concept when you don't have enough points left to buy an entire unit, and just throw the last 5-10 points into something just to spend them.

First of all, I typically run 2500 points. I can run up to 5000 points if I need to. I think we also have different ideas on what leftover points are. To me, leftover points are the amount of points I can allocate to upgrades without going over my points limit. I am by no means afraid to spend points, or even go over points values by a small amount, so long as I get what I want in an army. I never try to get the exact points, and I tend to go over within a reasonable margin of error. If I need to, I'll even bump up the points cost just to fit in some extra units.

More commonly, I'll just cut units that I don't necessarily need. If I want some Leman Russes, I'll make room.

Ultimately, I don't think how I spend points is important. I do things my way, you do them your way. My method works for me.

 Smitty wrote:
Ultimately, I don't think how I spend points is important. I do things my way, you do them your way. My method works for me.

It's still a bad strategy. If you're spending hundreds of points on mediocre upgrades just because you have "spare points" you should be cutting your upgrades to a more efficient level and bringing entire additional units. Spending 300 points on getting the second and third doctrine upgrade for your vet squads is always going to be worse than bringing two more Vendettas. You might get away with it because you play against weak lists and don't need even close to 100% optimization to win, but it's still a terrible approach, especially for IG.


And I surprised your opponents allow you to go over the point limit even by a small amount. If I agree to play a game at 2500 points then 2500 points is an absolute limit, and I will not allow you to bring a 2501 point list.

Wow, that's strict. When I play at my local gaming store, they say "As long as you're not 100 points above, I don't care. It's about the same". I can safely testify that it is about the same, depending on your tactics. I've beaten larger lists on multiple occasions. And believe me, if I really wanted to, I could bump up to 3000 points and take 2 Leman Russes. Ultimately, it's how you play the army. My Grenadiers have beaten strong lists because of how I play them.

Like I said, it's not important how I spend my points. If I get results, I guess it works.

EDIT: Fun fact, my 2500 point army is actually 2495 points.

 Smitty wrote:
Wow, that's strict. When I play at my local gaming store, they say "As long as you're not 100 points above, I don't care. It's about the same".

Wow. That is really generous, and I can guarantee you that if I played there every single list I took would be 90-99 points over. And yes, I would make good use of those points.

I can safely testify that it is about the same, depending on your tactics. I've beaten larger lists on multiple occasions. And believe me, if I really wanted to, I could bump up to 3000 points and take 2 Leman Russes. Ultimately, it's how you play the army. My Grenadiers have beaten strong lists because of how I play them.

It's only the same if you play against weaker opponents. If you play a 2000 point list with tons of wasted points on upgrades against a 2000 point list that's fine-tuned to bring the maximum number of efficient units you're going to get tabled, and fast. No amount of "how you play them" is going to overcome having 500+ points of extra guns on the other side of the table.

Like I said, it's not important how I spend my points. If I get results, I guess it works.

Except context matters. You're apparently playing in an extremely casual environment, against poorly optimized lists and probably weaker opponents. Advice that "works" in that context is terrible advice against stronger opposition.

You're assuming that the lists I play against are poorly optimized. Since neither of us truly knows what the other goes up against, it will probably be for the best to knock off this petty conversation. You do things your way, I do things my way, and we leave it at that. Frankly, there are more important things to discuss. This is not one of them.

Also, that 100 points above is if they have a unit they could not normally include without going over the points limit, like if they had 100 points left, and wanted to get a Leman Russ or something. No one really cares, and will probably annihilate the list anyways.

 Peregrine wrote:

However, if you want a 2+ save it's easy: take Harker. You get a second heavy weapon for the squad, and in 6th camo cloaks and stealth stack for a total of a 2+ save at any distance in a ruin, not just within 8".

Harker is also awesome for grav chute deployment out of a Valkyrie. They auto pass dangerous terrain tests.

 Insurgency Walker wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:

However, if you want a 2+ save it's easy: take Harker. You get a second heavy weapon for the squad, and in 6th camo cloaks and stealth stack for a total of a 2+ save at any distance in a ruin, not just within 8".

Harker is also awesome for grav chute deployment out of a Valkyrie. They auto pass dangerous terrain tests.

Okay, I'm going to have to try that!

I could actually see bastonne as a defensive upgrade for vets. Harker is great, and he's extra great when you consider outflanking vets onto backfield objectives, but bastonne DOES give you an extra order. Racing him up the filed is just going to get himself and his squad killed, but when three Malwocs pop out of the ground in the middle of your army, having the extra BiD! may well be rather useful.

Vets generally don't make a LOT of use out of orders, but sometimes they do, and vet lists are generally orders light. Not sure if he's worth the cost, but I don't think hes a total waste.

... not that I'd ever take him when I haven't yet taken harker...