Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.
[DCM]
GW Public Relations Manager (Privateer Press Mole)
Mannahnin wrote: I think Obama could have done a better job nailing Romney on flip-flopping. Romney mostly confused him in the first debate by reversing his stated positions on several issues, like taxes and regulation. Better work has been done.
Heh Colbert certainly has his moments.
Adepticon TT 2009---Best Heretical Force
Adepticon 2010---Best Appearance Warhammer Fantasy Warbands
Adepticon 2011---Best Team Display
Obama was more specific, Romney used rhetoric. You can see this during their question about the college student getting a job after graduation. Obama outlined a plan, Romney went on an emotional appeal to the common man.
That said it was just the usual political diatribe.
DIDM wrote: holy feth doe the word "Terrorist" hold some power over you folks
we are a society of fear and catch phrases
terrorist was once Extremists, or maybe Cultists, and religious nutjobs
fear is a vehicle that the media drives pedal to the metal. if you aren't scared you aren't watching the news in their model
terrorist is the biggest scare word they could come up with, it invokes fear just thinking of the TERROR these bad men will unleash. The truth is that we are no more at risk than we have ever been, in fact we are so safe we strip search old ladies and make every man go through a radioactive sperm killing xray to make sure we don;t have bombs on our insides.
they have made everyone scared, now they want everything you have for rights to keep you "safe" from the danger they orchestrated.
Um... what are you talking about?
Automatically Appended Next Post:
MrScience wrote: Obama was more specific, Romney used rhetoric. You can see this during their question about the college student getting a job after graduation. Obama outlined a plan, Romney went on an emotional appeal to the common man.
That said it was just the usual political diatribe.
Wait... I promise, I'm not being snarky... what's Obama's plan from the debate again?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/10/17 04:30:44
Wait... I promise, I'm not being snarky... what's Obama's plan from the debate again?
With regards to the college student. Increases in federal aid for student loans (which has already happened).
It's still not specific at all, but it's much better than Romney's way of answering questions which is "I'm just like you, the common man. Here's why Obama and China are bad."
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2012/10/17 04:38:06
So this is what Obama said the day after the attack:
No acts of terror will ever shake the resolve of this great nation, alter that character, or eclipse the light of the values that we stand for. Today we mourn four more Americans who represent the very best of the United States of America. We will not waver in our commitment to see that justice is done for this terrible act. And make no mistake, justice will be done.
And now the usual side is angry because today he said that he called it terrorism which is clearly a lie, because in Republican land there is a difference between
whembly wrote: It was a draw and both sides got their "zingers" in... and both took their lickings.
No, the difference here is in the viewer. To the person who consumes moronic partisan conservative blogs on a daily basis, Romney won big the first time, and this was a tie. To the more, shall we say, "reality-grounded" viewer, Romney clearly won the first one, and clearly lost this one.
Adepticon 2015: Team Tourney Best Imperial Team- Team Ironguts, Adepticon 2014: Team Tourney 6th/120, Best Imperial Team- Cold Steel Mercs 2, 40k Championship Qualifier ~25/226
More2010-2014 GT/Major RTT Record (W/L/D) -- CSM: 78-20-9 // SW: 8-1-2 (Golden Ticket with SW), BA: 29-9-4 6th Ed GT & RTT Record (W/L/D) -- CSM: 36-12-2 // BA: 11-4-1 // SW: 1-1-1
DT:70S++++G(FAQ)M++B++I+Pw40k99#+D+++A+++/sWD105R+++T(T)DM+++++ A better way to score Sportsmanship in tournaments The 40K Rulebook & Codex FAQs. You should have these bookmarked if you play this game.
The Dakka Dakka Forum Rules You agreed to abide by these when you signed up.
As someone who could be reasonably described as "right of center" I think this was a really good debate. Romney showed his ass a bit with that terrorism bit, if only because he played it a bit fast and loose with specifics in order to attempt to score a point. I think anyone who pays close attention to politics knows what he was getting at, but I think he did so poorly and will come out of that gaffe looking rather silly.
A lot of good points were made by both candidates. For me, personally, the only things that matter as far as policy are concerned are economic (not "hurrrr abortions and whatnot") and I think Romney has the better angle on that.
It was great TV, though.
I also move to change the thread title to "Debate Round 2: Electric Boogaloo."
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/10/17 04:57:18
Drink deeply and lustily from the foamy draught of evil.
W: 1.756 Quadrillion L: 0 D: 2
Haters gon' hate.
d-usa wrote: So this is what Obama said the day after the attack:
No acts of terror will ever shake the resolve of this great nation, alter that character, or eclipse the light of the values that we stand for. Today we mourn four more Americans who represent the very best of the United States of America. We will not waver in our commitment to see that justice is done for this terrible act. And make no mistake, justice will be done.
And now the usual side is angry because today he said that he called it terrorism which is clearly a lie, because in Republican land there is a difference between
"acts of terror"
and
"terrorist acts"
Well...one could take that as a reference to acts which include the tragedy in Benghazi, obviously, but there was clearly no effort made to LABEL it an act of terrorism. One reason why this might be is that according to U.S. law, acts of terrorism are premeditated and thus, once label in that way triggers certain things what US can do. The Obama administration’s line for days following Obama’s Rose Garden statement suggested that the attack wasn’t premeditated and it was all that Youtube Mohamed video's fault.
d-usa wrote: So this is what Obama said the day after the attack:
No acts of terror will ever shake the resolve of this great nation, alter that character, or eclipse the light of the values that we stand for. Today we mourn four more Americans who represent the very best of the United States of America. We will not waver in our commitment to see that justice is done for this terrible act. And make no mistake, justice will be done.
And now the usual side is angry because today he said that he called it terrorism which is clearly a lie, because in Republican land there is a difference between
"acts of terror"
and
"terrorist acts"
Well...one could take that as a reference to acts which include the tragedy in Benghazi, obviously, but there was clearly no effort made to LABEL it an act of terrorism. That's the issue...
Thanks for making my point for me and showcasing the mental acrobatics required to believe that Obama talking specifically about the attack, and that no acts of terror will ever shake our resolve somehow means that he didn't call the attack terrorism.
whembly wrote: It was a draw and both sides got their "zingers" in... and both took their lickings.
No, the difference here is in the viewer. To the person who consumes moronic partisan conservative blogs on a daily basis, Romney won big the first time, and this was a tie. To the more, shall we say, "reality-grounded" viewer, Romney clearly won the first one, and clearly lost this one.
Meh... didn't really think Romney "won" that much in the first debate... I'd say "he held his own".
I'd still contend that this debate is a wash...
I don't see how any of these debates would budge the electorate... *shrugs*
Hey... HEY! I read moronic partisan conservative blogs AND inane partisan leftis blogs... give me a break!
Well, don't. Read more news sites. Especially international ones.
Adepticon 2015: Team Tourney Best Imperial Team- Team Ironguts, Adepticon 2014: Team Tourney 6th/120, Best Imperial Team- Cold Steel Mercs 2, 40k Championship Qualifier ~25/226
More2010-2014 GT/Major RTT Record (W/L/D) -- CSM: 78-20-9 // SW: 8-1-2 (Golden Ticket with SW), BA: 29-9-4 6th Ed GT & RTT Record (W/L/D) -- CSM: 36-12-2 // BA: 11-4-1 // SW: 1-1-1
DT:70S++++G(FAQ)M++B++I+Pw40k99#+D+++A+++/sWD105R+++T(T)DM+++++ A better way to score Sportsmanship in tournaments The 40K Rulebook & Codex FAQs. You should have these bookmarked if you play this game.
The Dakka Dakka Forum Rules You agreed to abide by these when you signed up.
d-usa wrote: So this is what Obama said the day after the attack:
No acts of terror will ever shake the resolve of this great nation, alter that character, or eclipse the light of the values that we stand for. Today we mourn four more Americans who represent the very best of the United States of America. We will not waver in our commitment to see that justice is done for this terrible act. And make no mistake, justice will be done.
And now the usual side is angry because today he said that he called it terrorism which is clearly a lie, because in Republican land there is a difference between
"acts of terror"
and
"terrorist acts"
Well...one could take that as a reference to acts which include the tragedy in Benghazi, obviously, but there was clearly no effort made to LABEL it an act of terrorism. That's the issue...
Thanks for making my point for me and showcasing the mental acrobatics required to believe that Obama talking specifically about the attack, and that no acts of terror will ever shake our resolve somehow means that he didn't call the attack terrorism.
D.... I need to re-watch it... but I remember that phrase was at the "end of the speech" used in a general sense, not directly referencing to what happened. The President clearly implied the attack was a result of the reaction to an anti-Muslim film released on YouTube. That's all I was saying...
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Mannahnin wrote: Well, don't. Read more news sites. Especially international ones.
But I DO!
I like CNN...
I like BBC...
I like Yahoo and Google News... (hey, don't knock them).
Those guys are my mainstays
But, then... I readz all over the place and following the linkages... those linky thingamagigs... who knows where I'll LAND!
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/10/17 05:10:59
Mannahnin wrote: Obama's done much better this time. He's been comfortable, engaged, much more articulate, clear and firm,
Romney comes off peevish and sometimes a bit desperate.
They both come off as peevish and desperate.
d-usa wrote:No CTRL&C, CTRL&V from the blogs yet as to what our opinion should be?
Obama Wins Testy Second Debate - Forbes
d-usa wrote:So this is what Obama said the day after the attack:
No acts of terror will ever shake the resolve of this great nation, alter that character, or eclipse the light of the values that we stand for. Today we mourn four more Americans who represent the very best of the United States of America. We will not waver in our commitment to see that justice is done for this terrible act. And make no mistake, justice will be done.
And now the usual side is angry because today he said that he called it terrorism which is clearly a lie, because in Republican land there is a difference between
"acts of terror"
and
"terrorist acts"
In republican land we think that's lukewarm at best. Especially when in context it could very well be in reference to the 9/11 attacks or US troops he just got done talking about, or the two weeks his press secretary spent calling it a spontaneous demonstration. What you have here is an argument of semantics on both sides.
Avatar 720 wrote: You see, to Auston, everyone is a Death Star; there's only one way you can take it and that's through a small gap at the back.
Powder Burns wrote:what they need to make is a fullsize leatherman, like 14" long folded, with a bone saw, notches for bowstring, signaling flare, electrical hand crank generator, bolt cutters..
Mannahnin wrote: Obama's done much better this time. He's been comfortable, engaged, much more articulate, clear and firm,
Romney comes off peevish and sometimes a bit desperate.
They both come off as peevish and desperate.
d-usa wrote:No CTRL&C, CTRL&V from the blogs yet as to what our opinion should be?
Obama Wins Testy Second Debate - Forbes
d-usa wrote:So this is what Obama said the day after the attack:
No acts of terror will ever shake the resolve of this great nation, alter that character, or eclipse the light of the values that we stand for. Today we mourn four more Americans who represent the very best of the United States of America. We will not waver in our commitment to see that justice is done for this terrible act. And make no mistake, justice will be done.
And now the usual side is angry because today he said that he called it terrorism which is clearly a lie, because in Republican land there is a difference between
"acts of terror"
and
"terrorist acts"
In republican land we think that's lukewarm at best. Especially when in context it could very well be in reference to the 9/11 attacks or US troops he just got done talking about, or the two weeks his press secretary spent calling it a spontaneous demonstration. What you have here is an argument of semantics on both sides.
It's mostly just funny. And ironic, because of course what he described was the most over the top form of affirmative action, which is not something Republicans usually advocate.
The binder comment does have an unfortunate resonance with him being a Mormon. Some of the creepy offshoot polygamist groups have been known to put files and photos of young girls of marriageable age into literal binders, sometimes called a "joy book". This idea was publicized a bit in the show Big Love, which is where I think a lot of us first heard of it.
On the subject, though, let's keep the memes under control, please. A reference or two to the big memes and jokes springing from the debate makes sense, but whole posts of gifs are not okay, remember.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2012/10/17 05:52:06
Adepticon 2015: Team Tourney Best Imperial Team- Team Ironguts, Adepticon 2014: Team Tourney 6th/120, Best Imperial Team- Cold Steel Mercs 2, 40k Championship Qualifier ~25/226
More2010-2014 GT/Major RTT Record (W/L/D) -- CSM: 78-20-9 // SW: 8-1-2 (Golden Ticket with SW), BA: 29-9-4 6th Ed GT & RTT Record (W/L/D) -- CSM: 36-12-2 // BA: 11-4-1 // SW: 1-1-1
DT:70S++++G(FAQ)M++B++I+Pw40k99#+D+++A+++/sWD105R+++T(T)DM+++++ A better way to score Sportsmanship in tournaments The 40K Rulebook & Codex FAQs. You should have these bookmarked if you play this game.
The Dakka Dakka Forum Rules You agreed to abide by these when you signed up.
Mannahnin wrote: Obama's done much better this time. He's been comfortable, engaged, much more articulate, clear and firm,
Romney comes off peevish and sometimes a bit desperate.
They both come off as peevish and desperate.
d-usa wrote:No CTRL&C, CTRL&V from the blogs yet as to what our opinion should be?
Obama Wins Testy Second Debate - Forbes
d-usa wrote:So this is what Obama said the day after the attack:
No acts of terror will ever shake the resolve of this great nation, alter that character, or eclipse the light of the values that we stand for. Today we mourn four more Americans who represent the very best of the United States of America. We will not waver in our commitment to see that justice is done for this terrible act. And make no mistake, justice will be done.
And now the usual side is angry because today he said that he called it terrorism which is clearly a lie, because in Republican land there is a difference between
"acts of terror"
and
"terrorist acts"
In republican land we think that's lukewarm at best. Especially when in context it could very well be in reference to the 9/11 attacks or US troops he just got done talking about, or the two weeks his press secretary spent calling it a spontaneous demonstration. What you have here is an argument of semantics on both sides.
Yeah... I can buy that.
Semantics, schmantics!
So let's just post the whole transcript then, and get that wall of text over with:
Remarks by the President on the Deaths of U.S. Embassy Staff in Libya
Rose Garden
10:43 A.M. EDT
THE PRESIDENT: Good morning. Every day, all across the world, American diplomats and civilians work tirelessly to advance the interests and values of our nation. Often, they are away from their families. Sometimes, they brave great danger.
Yesterday, four of these extraordinary Americans were killed in an attack on our diplomatic post in Benghazi. Among those killed was our Ambassador, Chris Stevens, as well as Foreign Service Officer Sean Smith. We are still notifying the families of the others who were killed. And today, the American people stand united in holding the families of the four Americans in our thoughts and in our prayers.
The United States condemns in the strongest terms this outrageous and shocking attack. We're working with the government of Libya to secure our diplomats. I've also directed my administration to increase our security at diplomatic posts around the world. And make no mistake, we will work with the Libyan government to bring to justice the killers who attacked our people.
Since our founding, the United States has been a nation that respects all faiths. We reject all efforts to denigrate the religious beliefs of others. But there is absolutely no justification to this type of senseless violence. None. The world must stand together to unequivocally reject these brutal acts.
Already, many Libyans have joined us in doing so, and this attack will not break the bonds between the United States and Libya. Libyan security personnel fought back against the attackers alongside Americans. Libyans helped some of our diplomats find safety, and they carried Ambassador Stevens’s body to the hospital, where we tragically learned that he had died.
It's especially tragic that Chris Stevens died in Benghazi because it is a city that he helped to save. At the height of the Libyan revolution, Chris led our diplomatic post in Benghazi. With characteristic skill, courage, and resolve, he built partnerships with Libyan revolutionaries, and helped them as they planned to build a new Libya. When the Qaddafi regime came to an end, Chris was there to serve as our ambassador to the new Libya, and he worked tirelessly to support this young democracy, and I think both Secretary Clinton and I relied deeply on his knowledge of the situation on the ground there. He was a role model to all who worked with him and to the young diplomats who aspire to walk in his footsteps.
Along with his colleagues, Chris died in a country that is still striving to emerge from the recent experience of war. Today, the loss of these four Americans is fresh, but our memories of them linger on. I have no doubt that their legacy will live on through the work that they did far from our shores and in the hearts of those who love them back home.
Of course, yesterday was already a painful day for our nation as we marked the solemn memory of the 9/11 attacks. We mourned with the families who were lost on that day. I visited the graves of troops who made the ultimate sacrifice in Iraq and Afghanistan at the hallowed grounds of Arlington Cemetery, and had the opportunity to say thank you and visit some of our wounded warriors at Walter Reed. And then last night, we learned the news of this attack in Benghazi.
As Americans, let us never, ever forget that our freedom is only sustained because there are people who are willing to fight for it, to stand up for it, and in some cases, lay down their lives for it. Our country is only as strong as the character of our people and the service of those both civilian and military who represent us around the globe.
No acts of terror will ever shake the resolve of this great nation, alter that character, or eclipse the light of the values that we stand for. Today we mourn four more Americans who represent the very best of the United States of America. We will not waver in our commitment to see that justice is done for this terrible act. And make no mistake, justice will be done.
But we also know that the lives these Americans led stand in stark contrast to those of their attackers. These four Americans stood up for freedom and human dignity. They should give every American great pride in the country that they served, and the hope that our flag represents to people around the globe who also yearn to live in freedom and with dignity.
We grieve with their families, but let us carry on their memory, and let us continue their work of seeking a stronger America and a better world for all of our children.
Thank you. May God bless the memory of those we lost and may God bless the United States of America.
END
10:48 A.M. EDT
So many paragraphs specifically about the attack, and one generic statement about the troops lost since 2001.
But according to the usual crowd talking about the attacks and "acts of terror" doesn't mean he called these attacks an act of terror.
Every time I read a paper I immediatly go flip to page 7 to find out which furniture store has a sale and read the editorial on whether Mary from Nantucket prefers firm or soft toothbrushes.
Bottom Line Up Front.
The White House
Office of the Press Secretary
For Immediate Release
July 18, 2012
Statement by the President on the Terrorist Attack in Bulgaria
I strongly condemn today’s barbaric terrorist attack on Israelis in Bulgaria. My thoughts and prayers are with the families of those killed and injured, and with the people of Israel, Bulgaria, and any other nation whose citizens were harmed in this awful event. These attacks against innocent civilians, including children, are completely outrageous. The United States will stand with our allies, and provide whatever assistance is necessary to identify and bring to justice the perpetrators of this attack. As Israel has tragically once more been a target of terrorism, the United States reaffirms our unshakeable commitment to Israel’s security, and our deep friendship and solidarity with the Israeli people.
That's weird in July he had no problem stringing those words together in the first sentence. It's even in the title of the press release.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2012/10/17 05:57:31
Avatar 720 wrote: You see, to Auston, everyone is a Death Star; there's only one way you can take it and that's through a small gap at the back.
Powder Burns wrote:what they need to make is a fullsize leatherman, like 14" long folded, with a bone saw, notches for bowstring, signaling flare, electrical hand crank generator, bolt cutters..
In tonight's debate, which was totally biased to Obama, he got 9% more time. The moderator was shilling for Obama, took sides, and should be admonished and fired. Despite all that there was a huge surge of likely Obama voters switching to Romney.
These are all sentiments pulled from the first 2 inches of the page, which will be expanded on over the next 2 days in ever more ludicrous ways.
The discussion here is a microcosm of the debates themselves. There is nothing useful to be gleaned here. Everyone just makes their own reality and decides what they want to believe actually happened, rorschach style.
I'm just here for the memes.
lord_blackfang wrote: Respect to the guy who subscribed just to post a massive ASCII dong in the chat and immediately get banned.
Flinty wrote: The benefit of slate is that its.actually a.rock with rock like properties. The downside is that it's a rock
Adepticon 2015: Team Tourney Best Imperial Team- Team Ironguts, Adepticon 2014: Team Tourney 6th/120, Best Imperial Team- Cold Steel Mercs 2, 40k Championship Qualifier ~25/226
More2010-2014 GT/Major RTT Record (W/L/D) -- CSM: 78-20-9 // SW: 8-1-2 (Golden Ticket with SW), BA: 29-9-4 6th Ed GT & RTT Record (W/L/D) -- CSM: 36-12-2 // BA: 11-4-1 // SW: 1-1-1
DT:70S++++G(FAQ)M++B++I+Pw40k99#+D+++A+++/sWD105R+++T(T)DM+++++ A better way to score Sportsmanship in tournaments The 40K Rulebook & Codex FAQs. You should have these bookmarked if you play this game.
The Dakka Dakka Forum Rules You agreed to abide by these when you signed up.
Just checking... 
