Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 xcasex wrote:

And the third parties are from my research not supplanting GWs products in any significant manner.

What exactly is your "research"?

Chances are, in the next month or two we'll see 50 billion hobbit releases. (A conservative estimate). - That'll be where a lot of sculptors have been spending their time I'd guess.

I wonder if New Line will be wanting to 'approve' them again so they'll have needed to be done early.

 Testify wrote:
Would love to be able to buy plasma/meltaguns third party for cheap. Of course, I'd love it even more if they actually came included in the guardsmen box set.

I guess GW could do something drastic like slash the amount of new releases, get rid of most of their creative side and focus on the bread and butter - selling people kits of their model soldiers. Actually wouldn't bother me that much, it's very rare nowadays that GW release something, in 40k at least, that actually makes me think "oh crap that looks good". Forgeworld is a different thing altogether, of course...

GW have never been interested in producing an optimized box set. Their intention has always been for hobbyists to buy multiple kits to bulk out their armies. Redundant 'Bitz' are cool, apparently.

I thought Forgeworld would be GW's tuning division when it came along, pumping out specials and the occasional codex entry that GW didn't supply in plastics. Nevermind, other companies can do that.

 Testify wrote:

 xcasex wrote:

And the third parties are from my research not supplanting GWs products in any significant manner.

What exactly is your "research"?

Published market data from various sources, including companies that produce their own games. It was collated since we're getting into it ourselves, and we wanted some hard stats so that we could make estimates on production etc.

This debate always seems to drop down to two postions.

1. The law allows Chapterhouse (insert name X here) to make after market peices and this does not infringe on GW's IP

2. The law does not allow Chapterhouse (insert name X here) to make after market peices and this does infringe on GW's IP

Personally, I don't care if the law does or does not. I think that GW is an acting monopoly and should be spilt just like Microsoft should have been, just like BOA should be, just like ATT was.
If GW is in fact a Monopoly then anything they press for is a gross abuse of power by a monopoly.

Go Go Chapterhouse

I understand your feeling however GW is not really near to a monopoly.

Firstly, there are many other companies in the wargames line of business.

Secondly, if you want to play GW games, you don't have to use GW models (except in an official tournament or GW shop, and there are many unofficial tournaments and shops/clubs).

 Bodichi wrote:


Personally, I don't care if the law does or does not. I think that GW is an acting monopoly and should be spilt just like Microsoft should have been, just like BOA should be, just like ATT was.
If GW is in fact a Monopoly then anything they press for is a gross abuse of power by a monopoly.

Go Go Chapterhouse

Wow. What are you talking about? What are they monopolizing?
Table top gaming? If you think that you're incredibly sheltered from the hobby.
Warhammer? Well....no gak. Privateer Press also has a "monopoly" on Warmachine/Hordes, Corvus Belli has a "monopoly" on Infinity, how many more equally ridiculous comparisons do you want?

Have you browsed New and Rumours on Dakka lately? You can buy your entire marine army and IG army without giving a penny to GW. Right now. Without any judgement for or against this boring little company.
There's a Kickstarter running right now (Assimilation Alien Host) that could give you a full counts as Tyranid army for $200 in plastic. Dreamforge games is, right now, producing awesome IG/Marine equivalents....with vehicles, Knights...and Titans.
What else are you looking for? There's never been more diversity in models or games so easily available to gamers as their are right now.

If I remember correctly, it's less of a what options do you have, but it's how big of a market share does the company have.

Edit: believe I am wrong lol

Suffice it to say that GW does not meet any legal definition of "monopoly."

And then let's return to the topic.

I can only hope this will make GW have models for all of their units in the codex. I don't think anything will stop the 3rd party producers from making things for GW models since they can get really creative with wording and whatnot. Also as long as I've played GW always shorts you on weapons and whatnot for various units. Do I really want a havok squad with only one of every weapon?

Awsering the OP initial question:

THE EMPEROR WILL RAISE FROM HIS THRONE, imcapable to bear such a degree of heresy, and awakened once again, he will unite the Space Marines, the Empireal Forces and the Xeno Scum. With all this force, him shall purge the infidels and all the evil things on "third party" figures with flaming swords and burning winds. Every non GW model will melt down where it stands, every count-as army will blown up in the shelfs and army cases they where occupying. And in the end of the battle, there will be only Games Workshop.

But the most probable is the emperor will not give a shist, will stay dead there, and GW will finally face some decent concorrency...

 The Foot wrote:
I can only hope this will make GW have models for all of their units in the codex.

They're already doing it, plus some hasty waves to fill some gaps in older books. This lawsuit was apparently the driving force behind releasing everything within two months of a book, like they've done with Grey Knights and Necrons (sans some characters), and the Fantasy releases like Vampire Counts and Empire. Also why some dog gak bad models like the old Fellbats have remained in circulation as Finecast models.

Maybe it'll make GW make Combi-Weapon packs like their Meltagun / Plasma Rifle pack.

That or there'll be more competition for Chapterhouse, and I don't have to pay 5$ a bolter.

Assuming a full blown CHS win -

Short term: gw files an appeal. Meanwhile CHS gets a little more bold and comes out with a full product ( not a kit ) of the exact same name as gw product; however it will be a female version. This is a variation on the existing female version, slightly different name. Purpose: continued testing of ip boundaries by leal team. Survivability of CHS not a concern.

Other bitz makers go ahead and release various weapon addons with the correct names. Gw sends c&d however most ignore it.

The quality is all over the place; although even gw's quality for these items is dubious at best, so it's a complete mixed bag.

Mid term: gw tells design team to make a better product. Design team blames production. production blames mold makers. Mold makers blame designers. Somebody gets fired; but its the wrong person. However, no real changes occur. Continues court case with CHS, to point of appeal exhaustion.

Long term: gw revamps several lines in order to completely secure ip lineage. Codexes released changing the names of weapons and certain units. Lots of things renamed and completely redone.

At no point are prices lowered by gw. In several areas they ill be raised to give the appearance of a premium product.

Here's how I see GW appeal going.

GW Legal Team: "We would like to file an appeal"
Appeal Court: "Under what grounds?"
GW Legal Team: "Wait, we need a reason to file an appeal?"
Appeal Court: "Motion for an appeal denied."

That being said, if GW loses this case does that mean we might actually see a plastic sister of battle?

 Necrosis wrote:
Here's how I see GW appeal going.

GW Legal Team: "We would like to file an appeal"
Appeal Court: "Under what grounds?"
GW Legal Team: "Wait, we need a reason to file an appeal?"
Appeal Court: "Motion for an appeal denied."

That being said, if GW loses this case does that mean we might actually see a plastic sister of battle?

Already happened: They filed basically the same lawsuit a second time and hoped noone noticed. But the judge noticed

 Kroothawk wrote:

 Necrosis wrote:
Here's how I see GW appeal going.

GW Legal Team: "We would like to file an appeal"
Appeal Court: "Under what grounds?"
GW Legal Team: "Wait, we need a reason to file an appeal?"
Appeal Court: "Motion for an appeal denied."

That being said, if GW loses this case does that mean we might actually see a plastic sister of battle?

Already happened: They filed basically the same lawsuit a second time and hoped noone noticed. But the judge noticed

Filing an amended lawsuit is not the same as appeals, nor is it "filing the same lawsuit a second time".

In fairness you're both right. GW thinks it is a completely separate case as it refers to complete pieces as opposed to parts. However the court seems to think that it is simply an extension of the original case.

The important point is that the judge wants both considered as the one case.

Cheers

Andrew

Palindrome wrote:

 Pacific wrote:

There is absolutely (well, almost) no room for someone like CHS to step in and make a model of anything in that book.

Actually I would say that there is a lot of scope. Deamon engines certainly won't all look the same and the current models have enough detractors that there is a ready market for well designed alternatives. To be honest you could even make something that looks very similar and call it something else (space dragon etc) and in all likelyhood you will be in the clear.

If we really analyze it, aren't a lot of the 3rd party mini parts 'generic' stuff like bases, alternate guns, etc. then semi-generic like shoulder pads or helmeted heads? "Missing" sculpts or conversion kits for things without specific models seems like a small niche for these companies compared to doing generic <Culture> Shoulder Pads and <Culture> Head kits.

(I'm generally on Chapterhouse's side here as I don't think they've really infringed in IP ina major way. Possibly some ground for using terms in ways they shouldn't in a few incidents, but that's about it.But that's just my opinion, of course.)

clively wrote:
Short term: gw files an appeal. Meanwhile CHS gets a little more bold and comes out with a full product ( not a kit ) of the exact same name as gw product; however it will be a female version. This is a variation on the existing female version, slightly different name. Purpose: continued testing of ip boundaries by leal team. Survivability of CHS not a concern.

CHS have already done this short of naming them after GW models. Their Warrior Preistess is a female Striking Scorpion with the missing Chainsabres upgrade (and is the only CHS product I actually like), and the Doomseer is very definitely a female Farseer or Warlock. They also have a Doom of Malantai all cast up and ready to go, which they initially advertised as the Doom of Malantai just before this case started. They decided to not release it when the case started up.