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Hi guys.

I just finish reading the new V6 rulesbook, and as a tyranid player, I have interrogations :

First, on the V5 the Monstruous Creature attacks were considerated as Power Attacks, allowing no save to the opponent. I am afraid this has been removed ?
Second, on the V5 CC attacks against vehicules were Strenght + 2D6. In the new V6, it becomes only Strenght + 1D6 ?

Please confirm me that this is a mistake, I know that V6 has been disigned for shooting armies, but not at this point ?

Read smash rule. Pg. 42

And also read up on the rules that monstrous creatures get by default now. Pg. 48

1. The Smash rule makes all their attacks AP2.
2. The Smash rule allows Monstrous Creatures to do a Smash Attack, which halves their Attacks (before modifiers), but doubles their Strength and allows them to re-roll their Armour Penetration rolls.

Yes,I agree, but before, a carnifex, for example, has 4 attacks S9+2D6. Now he just get,using smash, 2 attacks S10+1D6. This is quite different

 meecham63 wrote:
Yes,I agree, but before, a carnifex, for example, has 4 attacks S9+2D6. Now he just get,using smash, 2 attacks S10+1D6. This is quite different

It is different than in 5th, your suspicions are correct.

 meecham63 wrote:
Hi guys.

I just finish reading the new V6 rulesbook, and as a tyranid player, I have interrogations :

First, on the V5 the Monstruous Creature attacks were considerated as Power Attacks, allowing no save to the opponent. I am afraid this has been removed ?
Second, on the V5 CC attacks against vehicules were Strenght + 2D6. In the new V6, it becomes only Strenght + 1D6 ?

Please confirm me that this is a mistake, I know that V6 has been disigned for shooting armies, but not at this point ?

It’s still OK to be honest dude. To quote your points.

Monsters are Ap2 now, so no-one will get anything other than invulnerable saves, which is the same as before. Plus it +1 on the vehicle damage chart.
Also, Monsters got hammer of wraith (free attack on the charge), plus vehicles are WS1 now, even if they move, so are easier to kill.... & on top of that, you can smash, which makes your attacks S10. Awesome.

I’ve been giving my Trygons Toxin sac’s now too. It means that they get re-rolls to hit & wound against most things. I usually used to lean towards Adrenal Glands, but toxin sac’s are must better now.

Lot’s of folk have a lot of hate towards tyranids now. Even the designers of the game. Personally, I think they got much better! Easier to kill things, & harder to take out than vehicle armies.

If they are due this ‘update’ that even the designers have said they need, I think they’ll be brutal. Keep with it man. Tyranids for the win!!!
Admittedly, we are struggling against flyers at the moment.

Spend some more time with the rules. Tyranids got a huge boost in power, not a nerf.

- Tyranids now have an insane number of Psykers and the Psychic powers can be insane. Last battle against Nids that I fought I had to deal with a Hive Tyrant with Strength and Toughness 9 and Feel No Pain from a single Psychic Power. It's nuts.

- Moving vehicles are hit in melee much easier, now, which makes it immensely easier for Tyranids to deal with all manner of vehicles. Speaking of dealing with vehicles...

- Smash give you a S10 attack to easily deal with those pesky Land Raiders and Monoliths. Also since your attack is AP2, you'll be getting a bonus to the damage chart when you get penetrating hits. Even though it halves your attacks, you can still get bonus attacks, so you're really not losing anything, but gaining a LOT.

- The new Flying Monstrous Creature rules give a huge boost to the flying Hive Tyrant. You also have another flying creature, the Harpy, though its a bit debatable if the Harpy is worth taking, even with the new rules.

- Monstrous Creatures can now benefit from Area Terrain.

The only things in 6th edition that really hurt Tyranids are:

- No assaulting from Reserves anymore with Outflanking Genestealers (although Ymgarl Genestealers can still assault the turn they arrive)

- The changes to Assault and Fleet make Hormogaunts and Ravenors a little less effective than they used to be.

Murrdox wrote:
Spend some more time with the rules. Tyranids got a huge boost in power, not a nerf.

- Tyranids now have an insane number of Psykers and the Psychic powers can be insane. Last battle against Nids that I fought I had to deal with a Hive Tyrant with Strength and Toughness 9 and Feel No Pain from a single Psychic Power. It's nuts.

- Moving vehicles are hit in melee much easier, now, which makes it immensely easier for Tyranids to deal with all manner of vehicles. Speaking of dealing with vehicles...

- Smash give you a S10 attack to easily deal with those pesky Land Raiders and Monoliths. Also since your attack is AP2, you'll be getting a bonus to the damage chart when you get penetrating hits. Even though it halves your attacks, you can still get bonus attacks, so you're really not losing anything, but gaining a LOT.

- The new Flying Monstrous Creature rules give a huge boost to the flying Hive Tyrant. You also have another flying creature, the Harpy, though its a bit debatable if the Harpy is worth taking, even with the new rules.

- Monstrous Creatures can now benefit from Area Terrain.

The only things in 6th edition that really hurt Tyranids are:

- No assaulting from Reserves anymore with Outflanking Genestealers (although Ymgarl Genestealers can still assault the turn they arrive)

- The changes to Assault and Fleet make Hormogaunts and Ravenors a little less effective than they used to be.

Totally agree with all this guy said.

To Klueless : you say that MC are AP2, but only when using smash, so they have to sacrifice half of their attack, Am I right ?
And yes, winged hived tyrant,with sll the news flying rules, is a really good HQ, Able to scratch opponent HQ in the second turn. It's goona be my first game using tyranids, I play CSM for 10 years

 meecham63 wrote:
To Klueless : you say that MC are AP2, but only when using smash, so they have to sacrifice half of their attack, Am I right ?

No, MC's are AP2 all the time.

Can you indicate me where it is notified in the rulebook ?
Thanks a lot !

 meecham63 wrote:
To Klueless : you say that MC are AP2, but only when using smash, so they have to sacrifice half of their attack, Am I right ?
And yes, winged hived tyrant,with sll the news flying rules, is a really good HQ, Able to scratch opponent HQ in the second turn. It's goona be my first game using tyranids, I play CSM for 10 years

Yo, as the guy below stated, MC’s are Ap2 all the time. FMC’s are the dog’s bo**ocks. Especially with 2 sets of TL devourers.

If you fancy some of my thoughts on Tyranids in 6th, try my youtube site. rambo2base. My latest videos are all about tyranids.... With more to come.

Stay frosty dude.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 meecham63 wrote:
Can you indicate me where it is notified in the rulebook ?
Thanks a lot !

Pg 42 mate. Smash.

Murrdox wrote:
- Tyranids now have an insane number of Psykers and the Psychic powers can be insane. Last battle against Nids that I fought I had to deal with a Hive Tyrant with Strength and Toughness 9 and Feel No Pain from a single Psychic Power. It's nuts.

You should re-read Iron Arm. It doesn't grant FNP.

 Klueless wrote:

 meecham63 wrote:
Hi guys.

I just finish reading the new V6 rulesbook, and as a tyranid player, I have interrogations :

First, on the V5 the Monstruous Creature attacks were considerated as Power Attacks, allowing no save to the opponent. I am afraid this has been removed ?
Second, on the V5 CC attacks against vehicules were Strenght + 2D6. In the new V6, it becomes only Strenght + 1D6 ?

Please confirm me that this is a mistake, I know that V6 has been disigned for shooting armies, but not at this point ?

It’s still OK to be honest dude. To quote your points.

Monsters are Ap2 now, so no-one will get anything other than invulnerable saves, which is the same as before. Plus it +1 on the vehicle damage chart.
Also, Monsters got hammer of wraith (free attack on the charge), plus vehicles are WS1 now, even if they move, so are easier to kill.... & on top of that, you can smash, which makes your attacks S10. Awesome.

I’ve been giving my Trygons Toxin sac’s now too. It means that they get re-rolls to hit & wound against most things. I usually used to lean towards Adrenal Glands, but toxin sac’s are must better now.

Lot’s of folk have a lot of hate towards tyranids now. Even the designers of the game. Personally, I think they got much better! Easier to kill things, & harder to take out than vehicle armies.

If they are due this ‘update’ that even the designers have said they need, I think they’ll be brutal. Keep with it man. Tyranids for the win!!!
Admittedly, we are struggling against flyers at the moment.

Don't forget that using smash attacks you can reroll armor pen rolls too.

 meecham63 wrote:
Can you indicate me where it is notified in the rulebook ?
Thanks a lot !

Read the Smash rule again. Most people skim the rulebook so it's understandable to miss the distinction.

Having the Smash USR on a model and making Smash attacks in game are two separate, but related things. The BRB describes exactly how to treat both situations in the USR section.

DoW

Thanks a lot guys, taking lot of notes for my next game

 DogOfWar wrote:

 meecham63 wrote:
Can you indicate me where it is notified in the rulebook ?
Thanks a lot !

Read the Smash rule again. Most people skim the rulebook so it's understandable to miss the distinction.

Having the Smash USR on a model and making Smash attacks in game are two separate, but related things. The BRB describes exactly how to treat both situations in the USR section.

DoW

EY?
I realise that the ‘smash attack its self is a separate thing to normal attacks, but, it does also say that models with this rule (which MC’s have) have all their attacks resolved at ap2. Are you saying differently? Sorry, I’ve had several beers, have been at work all day & need sleep. Might have just got a wire crossed.

Cudos on the bloke above that mentioned the 're-roll armour pen’s’ thing.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Yeah. I’m drunk. Ignore me from this point on.... Eyes.... blurring...... Must... sleep......

yeah that's exactly what it means, sir.

rigeld2 wrote:

Murrdox wrote:
- Tyranids now have an insane number of Psykers and the Psychic powers can be insane. Last battle against Nids that I fought I had to deal with a Hive Tyrant with Strength and Toughness 9 and Feel No Pain from a single Psychic Power. It's nuts.

You should re-read Iron Arm. It doesn't grant FNP.

Not to mention Eldrad or Njal can negate 90% of the effectiveness of the Psychic powers with just 1 character.

Smash only halves your profile attacks.

It doesn't halve any bonus attacks.


So a Carnifex with Crushing Claws charging a vehicles would halve its profile(3) to 2(rounding up) then add the bonus attacks for charging and crushing claws.

So a charging Carnifex using Smash would have 3+D3 Str10 attacks instead of 4+D3 Str9 attacks.

Thanks Grey Templars, you made it clear

Fragile wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

Murrdox wrote:
- Tyranids now have an insane number of Psykers and the Psychic powers can be insane. Last battle against Nids that I fought I had to deal with a Hive Tyrant with Strength and Toughness 9 and Feel No Pain from a single Psychic Power. It's nuts.

You should re-read Iron Arm. It doesn't grant FNP.

Not to mention Eldrad or Njal can negate 90% of the effectiveness of the Psychic powers with just 1 character.

Right, but that's not really the point. All those new Psychic abilities are things the Tyranids never had before in 5th. They got a huge boost in 6th with their massive amount of psychic abilities and it opens a LOT more doors for them with different combinations of units. Yes, of course some armies have counters for the powers.

Thanks to the person who pointed out Iron Arm doesn't grant FNP. I forgot the Hive Tyrant my opponent was running had both Iron Arm and Endurance cast on it.

One of the other rule changes that benefits Tyranids a lot is the change to FNP. In 5th it was pretty common for Tervigons to run around granting FNP to themselves or Trygons, but frequently it wasn't all that useful because a basic power weapon would negate the FNP ability. Now since only Instant Death negates FNP, you can pretty much be assured that most of your Monstrous Creatures are going to get their FNP saves all the time, which will be a huge boost to their survivability.

 Klueless wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Yeah. I’m drunk. Ignore me from this point on.... Eyes.... blurring...... Must... sleep......

No harm no foul, good sir. I think we're all in agreement with regards to Smash-ing things

DoW