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2012/10/18 02:48:14
Subject: Thunderfire and techmarine question.
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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So in the elites section under techmarine it says you can have 1 unit of servitors for every techmarine in your army. Does this include the thundefire techmarine "gunner"? It doesn't mention anything in the thunderfire entry though. And as it specifies elsewhere in the codex that SC's can take thing like command/honor guard squads. I would think you can't since its not specified separately?
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2012/10/18 02:54:21
Subject: Thunderfire and techmarine question.
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Rough Rider with Boomstick
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Short answer, no.
As you said, the servitors are bought as an upgrade for the Elite option "Techmarine"
The Heavy option "Thunderfire Cannon" includes the model Techmarine, but not necessarily all of the Techmarine (elite unit's) options.
IIRC, the Thunderfire Cannon Techmarine isn't an IC until the TC is gone. (That might have just been 5th)
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"Ignorance is bliss, and I am a happy man."
"When you claim to be a purple unicorn, and I do not argue with you, it is not because I agree with you."
“If the iron is hot, I desire to believe it is hot, and if it is cool, I desire to believe it is cool.”
"Beware when you find yourself arguing that a policy is defensible rather than optimal; or that it has some benefit compared to the null action, rather than the best benefit of any action." |
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2012/10/18 02:56:48
Subject: Thunderfire and techmarine question.
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Lieutenant General
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Actually there really has been no consensus the numerous time this question has come up.
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'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents
cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'
- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty
Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim |
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2012/10/18 02:59:25
Subject: Thunderfire and techmarine question.
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Rough Rider with Boomstick
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I didn't realize that this had been discussed recently. Do you happen to have a link to a good discussion of the topic? Did they resolve the conflation of techmarine model from techmarine unit?
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"Ignorance is bliss, and I am a happy man."
"When you claim to be a purple unicorn, and I do not argue with you, it is not because I agree with you."
“If the iron is hot, I desire to believe it is hot, and if it is cool, I desire to believe it is cool.”
"Beware when you find yourself arguing that a policy is defensible rather than optimal; or that it has some benefit compared to the null action, rather than the best benefit of any action." |
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2012/10/18 03:02:30
Subject: Thunderfire and techmarine question.
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Dark Angels Librarian with Book of Secrets
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Either way, its not an option in the Thunderfire entry is it? Can you buy an storm bolter for a land raider and put it on a crusader? They're the same vehicle, right?
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2012/10/18 03:18:06
Subject: Re:Thunderfire and techmarine question.
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Fixture of Dakka
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It's not an option for the thunderfire
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 Do you play 30k? It'd be a lot cooler if you did. |
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2012/10/18 05:28:25
Subject: Re:Thunderfire and techmarine question.
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Hoary Long Fang with Lascannon
Armageddon, Pry System, Armageddon Sector, Armageddon Sub-sector, Segmentum Solar.
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I'd say yes, they techmarine that is maning the thunderfire cannon is still a techmarine. He still bolsters defenses and when his duties are finished with the thunderfire cannon he is a techmarine as per the elite option in every reguard bar slot choice. The main point is reguardless of him being bought in the heavy slot ad having a thunderfire cannon he is still a Techmarine. The Servitor squad box states for each techmarine and Master of the forge, you can still take one for the MotF even though the squad box is in the elite section so why restrict allowance to the techmarine in the heavy section? He is a techmarine, so he can have a squad of servitors. He just can't join it because he's not an IC with the thunderfire cannon. Least thats how I see it.
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2012/10/18 05:50:30
Subject: Thunderfire and techmarine question.
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Rough Rider with Boomstick
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I see what you are saying - from p138. Interesting.
Would you have this unit of servitors count as one of your Elite choices? There doesn't seem to be any special dispensation of it not counting against your allowance (unlike Command squad which "does not count against your HQ allowance.")
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"Ignorance is bliss, and I am a happy man."
"When you claim to be a purple unicorn, and I do not argue with you, it is not because I agree with you."
“If the iron is hot, I desire to believe it is hot, and if it is cool, I desire to believe it is cool.”
"Beware when you find yourself arguing that a policy is defensible rather than optimal; or that it has some benefit compared to the null action, rather than the best benefit of any action." |
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2012/10/18 06:16:05
Subject: Thunderfire and techmarine question.
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Dark Angels Librarian with Book of Secrets
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The fact still remains that under the Thunderfire Cannon, there are no upgrade options. It would be like buying a Dark Angels tactical squad and upgrading the Veteran Sergeant with options from the Company Veterans Squad. Same stats, same thing, right? Nope. Same with the TFire Techmarine Gunner. No upgrades listed, none available. How is this difficult again?
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2012/10/18 06:32:38
Subject: Thunderfire and techmarine question.
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Rough Rider with Boomstick
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Read p138 of the Sm codex. Then go look at Master of the Forge.
There is no option under MotF for the Servitor unit. Would you say a player with MotF but no Techmarine may not purchase a unit of Servitors?
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"Ignorance is bliss, and I am a happy man."
"When you claim to be a purple unicorn, and I do not argue with you, it is not because I agree with you."
“If the iron is hot, I desire to believe it is hot, and if it is cool, I desire to believe it is cool.”
"Beware when you find yourself arguing that a policy is defensible rather than optimal; or that it has some benefit compared to the null action, rather than the best benefit of any action." |
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2012/10/18 06:38:29
Subject: Thunderfire and techmarine question.
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Dark Angels Librarian with Book of Secrets
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Sorry, thought the entry was like the DA one.
But either way, he is not a Techmarine. He is a Techmarine Gunner. A squad of terminators has special options laid out simply for the terminator sergeant, it doesn't mean he gets to have an assault cannon...
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2012/10/18 06:45:34
Subject: Thunderfire and techmarine question.
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Rough Rider with Boomstick
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Yes, but there is no stat line for a 'Techmarine Gunner' on p411 or SM codex p144, just Techmarine.
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"Ignorance is bliss, and I am a happy man."
"When you claim to be a purple unicorn, and I do not argue with you, it is not because I agree with you."
“If the iron is hot, I desire to believe it is hot, and if it is cool, I desire to believe it is cool.”
"Beware when you find yourself arguing that a policy is defensible rather than optimal; or that it has some benefit compared to the null action, rather than the best benefit of any action." |
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2012/10/18 06:50:33
Subject: Thunderfire and techmarine question.
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Nasty Nob on Warbike with Klaw
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foolishmortal wrote:Yes, but there is no stat line for a 'Techmarine Gunner' on p411 or SM codex p144, just Techmarine.
Guess you can't shoot the gun than?
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2012/10/18 07:02:40
Subject: Thunderfire and techmarine question.
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Rough Rider with Boomstick
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 I did a quick check of 5th ed BRB. Artillery rules on p55 seem to refer to 'crew' but not a generic 'gunner' term.
Also, found this..
Page 138 – Servitors.
Change the first sentence to: “You may include one unit of
Servitors for every Techmarine or Master of the Forge in your
army. These units do not count against your HQ or Elites
allowance.”
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"Ignorance is bliss, and I am a happy man."
"When you claim to be a purple unicorn, and I do not argue with you, it is not because I agree with you."
“If the iron is hot, I desire to believe it is hot, and if it is cool, I desire to believe it is cool.”
"Beware when you find yourself arguing that a policy is defensible rather than optimal; or that it has some benefit compared to the null action, rather than the best benefit of any action." |
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2012/10/18 12:41:39
Subject: Thunderfire and techmarine question.
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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I had this debate a while back at flgs and in short a fair compromise is that you can take servitors but they can't be joined to the Techmarine until the cannon is destroyed.
So they would just be a wandering unit of servitors.
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2012/10/18 15:24:46
Subject: Thunderfire and techmarine question.
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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foolishmortal wrote: I did a quick check of 5th ed BRB. Artillery rules on p55 seem to refer to 'crew' but not a generic 'gunner' term.
Also, found this..
Page 138 – Servitors.
Change the first sentence to: “You may include one unit of
Servitors for every Techmarine or Master of the Forge in your
army. These units do not count against your HQ or Elites
allowance.”
Yah this seems to point me to no you cannot. Add this to the fact it's a techmarine "gunner". And he doesn't become an IC till the cannon is destroyed(meaning you can have servitors after the cannon is destroyed. But since you have to add them before the game you actually can't.). Leads me to say no.
But since the servitors entry reads "you may include 1 unit of servitors for EVERY techmarine marine in your army" it throws me for a loop. This is a permissive rules set and that seems pretty permissive for me.
There is also the fact that nowhere in the HS section does it permit you to take servitors. Like it does in the HQ section with SC and command/honor squads.
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2012/10/18 15:35:59
Subject: Thunderfire and techmarine question.
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The Hive Mind
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You can have servitors without the Techmarine attached - so the fact that he can't join the until his big gun is gone doesn't matter.
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My beautiful wife wrote:Trucks = Carnifex snack, Tanks = meals.
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2012/10/18 16:17:26
Subject: Re:Thunderfire and techmarine question.
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Executing Exarch
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So you can have one for each Storm Talon too then, since they're piloted by a Techmarine?
(I've got no opinion either way, just throwing that out there)
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2012/10/18 16:19:22
Subject: Re:Thunderfire and techmarine question.
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The Hive Mind
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Quanar wrote:So you can have one for each Storm Talon too then, since they're piloted by a Techmarine?
(I've got no opinion either way, just throwing that out there)
No, because that's fluff. The TFC has actual rules support for the model being a Techmarine.
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My beautiful wife wrote:Trucks = Carnifex snack, Tanks = meals.
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2012/10/18 19:50:50
Subject: Thunderfire and techmarine question.
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Dakka Veteran
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There is also a FAQ entry on this.Page 138 – Servitors.
Change the first sentence to: “You may include one unit of
Servitors for every Techmarine or Master of the Forge in your
army. These units do not count against your HQ or Elites
allowance.”
So I can see where the confussion comes from. However the gunner is a Techmarine he does not get IC status till the gun is destroyed so Its a no for now. Though there are alot of people thing some ablative wounds would be nice for a T-fire cannon we dont get it.
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 In a dog eat dog be a cat. |
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2012/10/18 21:07:55
Subject: Thunderfire and techmarine question.
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Powerful Phoenix Lord
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Lungpickle wrote:There is also a FAQ entry on this.Page 138 – Servitors.
Change the first sentence to: “You may include one unit of
Servitors for every Techmarine or Master of the Forge in your
army. These units do not count against your HQ or Elites
allowance.”
So I can see where the confussion comes from. However the gunner is a Techmarine he does not get IC status till the gun is destroyed so Its a no for now. Though there are alot of people thing some ablative wounds would be nice for a T-fire cannon we dont get it.
It doesn't matter that the gunner does not have the IC rule (it would also explain why Techmarines are not characters). The issue is they do not use an Elite or HQ slot. If the gunner could unlock them (which I don't think RAW supports) then they would count against your HS choices.
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Greebo had spent an irritating two minutes in that box. Technically, a cat locked in a box may be alive or it may be dead. You never know until you look. In fact, the mere act of opening the box will determine the state of the cat, although in this case there were three determinate states the cat could be in: these being Alive, Dead, and Bloody Furious.
Orks always ride in single file to hide their strength and numbers.
Gozer the Gozerian, Gozer the Destructor, Volguus Zildrohar, Gozer the Traveler, and Lord of the Sebouillia |
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