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Do you think the Orks or the Tyranids are going to win?

'Nids because they devour the biomass of both sides, but Orks need their own dead to reproduce (fungal spores released upon death) so they'd eventually lose through attrition unless someone knocked out a Tyranid hive control thingy.

Nids. > All but demons.

I predict a massive stalemate until the Hive Fleet actually runs out.

More and more orks are pouring in from accross the galaxy, but the Hive Fleet has finite resources.

The orks will win eventually, the Nids can't consume the dead because they are still fighting the Orks. So the Ork spores can still mature.

 Grey Templar wrote:
More and more orks are pouring in from accross the galaxy, but the Hive Fleet has finite resources.

That would be true if all of Leviathan was in the fight. It's not. It's only one tendril of Leviathan. The rest is out kciking all kinds of ass in other places (really, go look at the galactic map in the Tyranid codex. Leviathan is doing all kinds of damage). That tendril has the biomass of the others to call on if it needs it, since it's part of the same hive fleet.

Not to mention if Leviathan decided to concentrate all of its recourses on the fight, it would literally drown the system in bodies. The whole Leviathan fleet is absolutely immense.

 Grey Templar wrote:
I predict a massive stalemate until the Hive Fleet actually runs out.

More and more orks are pouring in from accross the galaxy, but the Hive Fleet has finite resources.

The orks will win eventually, the Nids can't consume the dead because they are still fighting the Orks. So the Ork spores can still mature.

Nomming things is fairly easy. As mentioned in some Ig book, the 'Nids smash things down, plow through stuff so even while they'r eup at the front, smaller Nomming nids mop up the scraps as fast as possible before high-tailing it back to whatever hive procesor unit they can find.

In addition, most of the acidics and grubbys that the 'nids use in battle would probably deteriorate the Ork bodies into raw bio-sludge or burnt husks, or birthing grounds for Rippers

I personally find myself siding with the Tyranids especially with the arrival of the Swarmlord.

1) They are just so much more advanced than the Ork
2) Tyranid adapation. The Orks make up for a lack of technology with a biology designed from the ground up for war. However, the Tyranid are geared very much the same way and will only adapt more and more as they fight the Orks.

The only conceivable way I could see the Orks winning is if they got a decisive leader that could take out the Tyranid synapse or if the number of Orks pouring in grows exponentially higher. Both are plausible as the Orks do possess some devastating leaders and there are more than enough Ork in the Milky Way Galaxy to utterly obliterate all of Leviathan.

But I would put my money on the Swarmlord over any Ork leader. And the notion of overwhelming Ork reinforcements is completely up to chance.

I'm going to back the orks.

Nids can't digest until they win. As noted previously the other tendril is still out kicking bottom. That doesn't mean they can instantly re direct hive ships resources any more than the Orks can.

Orks get bigger and stronger the more they fight. Gaunts don't.
Orks do have technology to back them up. You can trust Gargant production will be ramped up no end.
Ork physiology has already been discussed. But as I said Orks gain reinforcements during the fight nid have to win before they reclaim.
But we also have to take into account the ork 'reinforcements' who come spoiling for a fight. And on hearing of 'Da neva endung foight' they WILL come.

Personally I see the Nids depleting before they take down the orks.

 Shlazaor wrote:
Do you think the Orks or the Tyranids are going to win?

HIT THE DECK! *takes cover from nid flame wars*

For those curious though, for every ork who dies approximately 12 orks replace him through spores this works even for orkish children, squigs, gretchin and snotlings as the lowest of the food chain and shed spore to produce the highest ESPECIALLY in areas wracked with war more orks turn up.

Since it is getting reinforcements from outside orkish freebooters and waaagh bands this turns into an ugly situation which is why the Swarmlord needed to stop potentially advancing the plot against Marnus Calgar to fight the orks and try and tip the scales this is a clear sign they needed all the effort they could because this stopped the Swarmlord from finishing Calgar according to the fluff it also effectively halted the invasion of Ultramar so this gambit worked flawlessly in the IOM favor because they do have exterminatus payloads waiting on that planet after a victor becomes assured.

Ultimately this represents endless war it has become intimately obvious no race as a way to garantee orks will not reproduce until their final moments. If the average life span of the Orks is less than 2 years now because of Octarius' ar conditions that is still plenty of time to shed spores for an unknown level of "passive reinforcement" and then plenty of time for those orks to mature which only takes approximately 3-4 months. And then upon their death reinforce even more. Considering orks are too unpredictable to perfectly develope and evolve to fight them perfectly (due to their wacky and fearless nature) This halts even the mighty nids in their tracks, this is an ork empire world making it excellent terrian for Ork spores to grow all over the planet enough that even the Ultramarines found futility in engaging them on this world and could never brind a ship close enough to create a Exterminatus payload without threat of orkish space counter attack and looting.

I think the Nids are on the back of the biomass equation because that is the last thing they can claim and they can only claim it once a battlefield is over with even in the heat of battle biomass isn't accurately consumed because rippers and the other nid bodies which gather this will be wiped out for showing up to the battle. It is something without a shadow of doubt they are doing but something that is more or less "the Spoils of war" For every victory the nids receieve an immediate new force or orks might be making skyfall from roks or kommandoes rush out to burn and bomb ripper swarms

This is literally an exercise in futility the only thing that has been noted is that the nids have made some advances upon the planet but could be pushed back at the drop of a hat. I highly doubt it is advantageous for GW to conclude the battle in anyone's favor but the IOM

For the record this is why i laugh when people say the Nids are tactically clever... the Nids test something a simple as orkish empires that the IOM knows isn't going anywhere and would be a waste of resources. But the nids don't retreat once you "trick them into combat" they'll just stay stupidly allowing their resources as a roving cancer within the galaxy to be combated at every turn by every enemy the IOM has because the ultimate goal of this hive fleet was to make it to the Astronomicon... which they are flunking at greatly...

 Shlazaor wrote:
I personally find myself siding with the Tyranids especially with the arrival of the Swarmlord.

1) They are just so much more advanced than the Ork
2) Tyranid adapation. The Orks make up for a lack of technology with a biology designed from the ground up for war. However, the Tyranid are geared very much the same way and will only adapt more and more as they fight the Orks.

The only conceivable way I could see the Orks winning is if they got a decisive leader that could take out the Tyranid synapse or if the number of Orks pouring in grows exponentially higher. Both are plausible as the Orks do possess some devastating leaders and there are more than enough Ork in the Milky Way Galaxy to utterly obliterate all of Leviathan.

But I would put my money on the Swarmlord over any Ork leader. And the notion of overwhelming Ork reinforcements is completely up to chance.

1. So tyranids can teleport, create miniatuarized wormhole guns, make planet anhiliating nukes...?

2. This just doesn't make sense. When tyranids meet new things they adapt to kill them. Are you really saying that this is the first time tyranids hae met orks? IoM sent a drove over 10 thousand years ago to find a place where there is peace. No peace has been found just a bunch of ork signals.

Ultaramarines managed to fight off a tyranid hivefleet tendril. There are 1000 ultramarines in the galaxy. Ghargull Blackfang and his bodyguard was killed by 3 space marine legions, 3 primarchs (Horus, Dorn and Mortarion) and even that wasn't enough. The emprah managed to come just intime to save his sons.

It took joint forces of Armagedon and 10 space marines chapters just to slow down Ghazzy and his WAAAGH!.

If they could get enough burna boyz then the nids might be on the retreat. As it is going currently, all the orks need to do is hold an area for a week or so and wait for more orks to spawn.

 illuknisaa wrote:

 Shlazaor wrote:


1) They are just so much more advanced than the Ork

1. So tyranids can teleport, create miniatuarized wormhole guns, make planet anhiliating nukes...?

To be fair, most of the Ork stuff doesn't work or inflicts more harm on themselves than the enemy. At least Tyranids Rippers consume their dead. So I wouldn't put alot of faith in "Orky Tech".

Ultramarines managed to fight off a tyranid hivefleet tendril. There are 1000 ultramarines in the galaxy. Ghargull Blackfang and his bodyguard was killed by 3 space marine legions, 3 primarchs (Horus, Dorn and Mortarion) and even that wasn't enough. The emprah managed to come just intime to save his sons.

It took joint forces of Armagedon and 10 space marines chapters just to slow down Ghazzy and his WAAAGH!.

Correction, they only defeated that tendril due to a Inquistorial Virus and infecting the Norn Queen, much like an Orc WAAGH! when you kill its Warboss. And Tyranids have almost annihilated two Space Marine Chapters, including the largest Chapter, the Ultramarines, and that's from the BRB Fluff, not some preppy Horus Heresy Book...

 Shlazaor wrote:


To be fair, most of the Ork stuff doesn't work or inflicts more harm on themselves than the enemy. At least Tyranids Rippers consume their dead. So I wouldn't put alot of faith in "Orky Tech".

You ... I ... just going to say you're very very VERY wrong and i will gladly let you assume orks don't know how to make things like titans or kustom mega blastas or snazzguns or cybernetics or ...

Correction, they only defeated that tendril due to a Inquistorial Virus and infecting the Norn Queen, much like an Orc WAAGH! when you kill its Warboss. And Tyranids have almost annihilated two Space Marine Chapters, including the largest Chapter, the Ultramarines, and that's from the BRB Fluff, not some preppy Horus Heresy Book...

So a completely valid tactic that worked on halting the unstoppable nids which is very heroic to push their way into the Nid defenses and inject the virus into it? seriously assassinating bosses and Nid hive mind officials are what Space Marines do. Also Ultramaines are NOT the largest chapter they are the most well known and nothing more. Most Space Marine Chapters adhere to a doctrine which limits their chapters to 1000 space marines or less, the Ultramarines being the honorable sons and poster boys of the Imperium follow these rules since it was implemented after the Horus Heresy to prevent chapters growing too large. The loyalist chapters not known for following this order are Space Wolves and Black Templar. The Templar are assumed to be 11,000 strong but they are dispersed throughout the galaxy in smaller numbers than most chapters so they consider it still honoring the code. So if only 2 chapters is what the Ndis have managed in all this time... I've lost respect for them.

a singular waaagh of no importance has wiped entire space marine chapters before. It's only when the Imperium meets us with overwhelming presence that we don't rip them assunder.

They know how make their weapons, doesn't mean it doesn't blow up often.

 Eetion wrote:
Nids can't digest until they win.

Tyranids are constantly digesting. As long as they have a foothold on a planet, there's a place for a digestion pool. There's a constant carpet of rippers wherever Tyranids are, which are constantly eating anything in the area - dead from both ides as well as the hyper-reproductive vegetation that the Tyranid spores choking the air cause.

 Eetion wrote:
As noted previously the other tendril is still out kicking bottom. That doesn't mean they can instantly re direct hive ships resources any more than the Orks can.

The best way to think of a Hive Fleet is a trail of ants. It's a tendril from a big fleet in the void running ships forward and back - they actually consume far too much from a single planet for just the 'fighting front' of the tendril to use. This was mentioned in an old fluff article. So if you consider the 'tendril' as a stream of ships, then yeah, it would be quite easy to redirect forces. It wouldn't be instant, however.

 Eetion wrote:
Orks get bigger and stronger the more they fight. Gaunts don't.

Tyranids adapt between each fight. There's fluff with them becoming immediately more resiliant to certain weapons between two battles.

 Eetion wrote:
Orks do have technology to back them up. You can trust Gargant production will be ramped up no end.

You can trust Heirophant production to be ramped up to compensate. Don't forget that while Tyranids are reliant on biomass, Orks are reliant on metals. Metals will run out before biomass will.

 Eetion wrote:
Ork physiology has already been discussed. But as I said Orks gain reinforcements during the fight nid have to win before they reclaim.

Tyranids already have self reproducing warriors - Hormagaunts. Their life cycle is: be born, lay eggs, fight. By the time that wave is dead, those eggs have hatched, laid their own eggs, and are on their way to the fight. Tyranids, again, also constantly gain biomass from the dead from both sides and the planet itself. It just doesn't get transferred to the hive ships until the planet is won - they still have Dominatrixes and Tervigons on the ground to spawn the ground forces.

 Eetion wrote:
But we also have to take into account the ork 'reinforcements' who come spoiling for a fight. And on hearing of 'Da neva endung foight' they WILL come.

And Tyranids come because there's a surprising amount of food. Neither will lack for reinforcments.

 Eetion wrote:
Personally I see the Nids depleting before they take down the orks.

Three continents of Octarius have already been taken by the Tyranids. Fluff disagrees with you.

Nids, but I see the IoM blasting the who area after the victor is seen.

Big Mek Wurrzog you quoted the wrong person. Not a big deal but worth pointing out.

But to return to the evidence for Tyranid victory. I understand that the fluff states if all the Orks were united together they would wipe out any force in the galaxy so I don't doubt that they have the numbers to eliminate Leviathan. I simply don't see them getting enough Orks to come to Octarius before the Tyranids win. During drawn out campaigns the IoM burns Ork bodies as a way of combating the Ork numbers and clearly have had some success in that arena. But Tyranids take the disposing of corpses to a completely new extreme. It's far more refined and efficient method. The arrival of the Swarmlord also indicates that Leviathan is turning its attention to Octarius. Even if you call the rate of intergalactic reinforcements to the planet as roughly equal, the Tyranids will manage to win out in the reinforcement category because of on-planet reinforcements, as they actively eat the Orks own potential reinforcements and add them to their own.

As for the arguement that the Tyranids can't adapt to the Orks crazy hooliganism that has been empirically denied. I might be willing to involve that they can't adapt to all of their crazy technology the way they did with the Tau but strategically they have already proven capable of obliterating notable Ork warlords and with inferior numbers AND without the Swarmlord. The arrival of the Swarmlord dramatically increases the strategic capital of the Tyranids and provides them a key advantage.

Grey Templar wrote:More and more orks are pouring in from accross the galaxy, but the Hive Fleet has finite resources.

And this is why orks will win. There are a bunch of orks and nids at the site already. There are a bunch of new orks and a bunch of new nids piling in every day as reinforcements.

The difference is that orks reproduce, while the tyranid do not. The tyranid can only reproduce by conquering new worlds. If the tyranid aren't winning, they aren't getting new biomass. Meanwhile, there are orks frigging everywhere, reproducing all the time.

As such, the burden is on tyranid. The tyranid need to win, the orks just need not not lose. In this stalemate, the orks are in a much, much better position, long game.

Now yes, the hive fleet COULD start diverting forces away from the battle to collect more resources, but said resource collection won't go unchallenged (and as such is not guaranteed success), and will expand the nid's list of enemies (the imperium was content with orks fighting nids, but if nids attack imperium worlds for resources, then space marines are going to be sent in), and, most importantly, any bugs not being sent into the battle means that the orks are going to slowly outnumber their opponents in the actual battle itself, allowing them the win.

The only way that the nids can escape this eventual malthusian collapse is if they stop attacking the orks and go back to picking on weaker targets until they have the strength to wipe out the orks for real.

Honestly i think the Orks would win this fight, they have the numbers and the craziness to fight and fight and fight, non-stop. I may not know all that much about the nids but looking at the map in the ork codex the orks have 3 WAAAGH!s fighting Leviathan, Urgok, Ovtavius, and Calverna. Also I think that ghazz and nazdreg are smart enough to see the nid threat before its to late after all ghazz didnt become the prophet of the waaaagh for nothing and nazdreg is the smartest and richest bad moon.

Nids are winning now and will win in the end. There is an Eldar/Imperium blockade surrounding the entire system, which means that Ork reinforcements, as typically ununited as they are, are reduced to a trickle. If the Tyranids can whip Ork ass even when the Orks have an entire planet sized army at their backs and outnumber the Nids a thousand to one, the Nids can win now.

What is this???? Im gone for a week and already another ork vs tyranid article is up?? I got one word to say to y'all...
WWAAAAAAAAGGGGGGHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!

BlaxicanX wrote:
Nids are winning now and will win in the end. There is an Eldar/Imperium blockade surrounding the entire system, which means that Ork reinforcements, as typically ununited as they are, are reduced to a trickle. If the Tyranids can whip Ork ass even when the Orks have an entire planet sized army at their backs and outnumber the Nids a thousand to one, the Nids can win now.

Sir The eldar are attacking the imperial worlds around the war AS well as sending in forces to attack both sides. The Iom has several chapters hunting the eldar. Its not "Eldar and Spaze marhines are bud bud and are protecting the Iom from both baddies." No its "Eldar goin in and killing everthing for honour and glory!!"

Space marines cant enter the battlefeild. Its to chaotic. Literally. Only the orks can stand toe-to-toe with and tyranid hive fleet even if its a tendril. Remeber they can make Roks at an incredible rate. Literally everyworld has roks around them protecting them Im betting.

Ok now then, if this fight keeps growing (as I suspect it will...) then ghazzy is going to enter the war. Now then it has takin alot of time and resources for the bugzes to get this far into the Empire. Now you nid players are going "But we came back from a near defeat!! And almost killed the empire." Im telling you that that warboss was a free-booter. Not a blood axe warboss who SPECIALIZE IN TACTICS! These are the orks that out smart space marines and imperial guard. They have been able to hold off the Nids for a long time and have been doing it pretty well. So well that the swarmlord has arrived and its BARLEY I repeat BARLEY tipped the scales of fate into the nids favor. Even now its hard fighting for the nids. Its still close. If ghazzy came in it would probably end in a stand still.

Now then the ripper crap. I just have to say Umm... gretchin... snotlings and ummm..... Oh yeah squigs. Ok so what if they kill alot. There will be gretchin snotlings and squigs to fight back. Sure you'll get a couple of hundred of guys back but really once a counter charge happens rippers will be busy fighting and dieing.

Tech vs bio. We are talking about orks here people... really Couple of roks outta the sky and a couple of bio-titans orkyfied and walla great big army. Plus bio-titans are not the best use of bioresources. Gargants are literally scratched toghter If one is destroyed then they will put it back toghter in a matter of months. If not that tanks and bikes and guns then.

So far I still cant see the orks losing can you?

You don't loot biotitans

You assume Thrakka's going to show his, so anybody could assume the Tyranids will send more bugs, don't go there.

 Bobthehero wrote:
You don't loot biotitans

You assume Thrakka's going to show his, so anybody could assume the Tyranids will send more bugs, don't go there.

Thats like sayin you dont loot carnifexes and Ive seen the pics. I Think that the orks COULD Loot biotitans. If they donts then they will use its armor for weapons/armor for vehicles and boys. Its meat for food. saving the squigs and such for rippers. and everything else imaginable. These are the orks. They leave nothing to waste. Its been said that they are the most resourceful race in the galaxy. They have proven it time and again. In the end They will loot it one way or another.

As for ghazzy. If he does come. Im not sayin he will but really, this probably will become a huge war. He will bring a huge fleet of orks with him. Billions of orks follow the prophet. If not trillions. He is respected by all orks who are smart enough to think that way. You might think that he is just another ork but He has proven to be the chosen of the ork gods.... Or to be just plain out lucky.

I'm still not sure why people are saying orks resources are infinite. While they reproduce Orks readily enough, the metals they use for their technology definitely isn't infinite. In fact, metals, on the scale things are made in 40k, would be far more finite than biomass.

Its pictures, and frankly I always though it was a terrible idea to begin with, stuff invented by people, hey I read a game report where Thrakka got killed, so he's obviously dead, right?

The 'nids can also recycle their bio-titans too, and ork spores are bio-stuff, so I am fairly sure at least some spores would get nommed before they hatch.

 Ailaros wrote:
The difference is that orks reproduce, while the tyranid do not. The tyranid can only reproduce by conquering new worlds. If the tyranid aren't winning, they aren't getting new biomass. Meanwhile, there are orks frigging everywhere, reproducing all the time.

Hormagaunts lay eggs. Tervigons are walking reproducing egg sacs for Termagants. Dominatrixes are walking bio-factories which spawn pretty much everything.

Tyranids also choke planets with spores that cause the flora on the planet to hyperactively reproduce.

They don't need to conquer a planet to take biomass or generate reinforcments. Their attacks are plenty sustainable on the ground.

*sigh* i hate these debates... no one ever looks at the bigger picture that this is a nerd debate of epic size which was meant to have no winners.

I don't really think it's so much a debate as a discussion. It's all theoretical. No one is setting out to "prove" once and for all they are right. Sure people believe one side will win and give evidence to that side but it's just fun to think about.

willhman wrote:

Sir The eldar are attacking the imperial worlds around the war AS well as sending in forces to attack both sides. The Iom has several chapters hunting the eldar. Its not "Eldar and Spaze marhines are bud bud and are protecting the Iom from both baddies." No its "Eldar goin in and killing everthing for honour and glory!!"

Means nothing to me. Yes, they're attacking each other. Doesn't mean they don't both still have blockades around the system. The ork reinforcements aren't going to pass up fighting with the Imperium and the Eldar just to join their fellows on the ground against the Tyranids- orks are too stupid for that- so you've still got the majority of ork reinforcements getting tied up with the Imperium and Eldar.

Tyranids will win the same way they always do, through attrition. That they're also smarter and more deadly than the Orks is just icing on the cake.

BlaxicanX wrote:

willhman wrote:

Sir The eldar are attacking the imperial worlds around the war AS well as sending in forces to attack both sides. The Iom has several chapters hunting the eldar. Its not "Eldar and Spaze marhines are bud bud and are protecting the Iom from both baddies." No its "Eldar goin in and killing everthing for honour and glory!!"

Means nothing to me. Yes, they're attacking each other. Doesn't mean they don't both still have blockades around the system. The ork reinforcements aren't going to pass up fighting with the Imperium and the Eldar just to join their fellows on the ground against the Tyranids- orks are too stupid for that- so you've still got the majority of ork reinforcements getting tied up with the Imperium and Eldar.

Tyranids will win the same way they always do, through attrition. That they're also smarter and more deadly than the Orks is just icing on the cake.

In the middle of an ork empire, no blockade is absolute. Besides I'm pretty sure the blockade had the nothing gets 'OUT' to escape. If the orks or nids want to go 'IN' to the cauldron then what is the purpose of stopping them? Just means you get to perform Exterminatus andmore enemy when the victor is achieved.
To block every Kill Kroozer and Hulk that goes in, all your going to do is take casualties and jeopordise your capability to delivet the Exterminatus.
Explain to how it serves the imperium of Manto block forces going in to the fight, forces which could be attacking human worlds.

In fact I would expect an Admiral to be absolutely delighted that 2 hulks and 15 orc cruisers along with a nid hive ship and 3 drones have entered the system.... As long as they never leave.